I know melee pale master type dudes have been done to death but I've been fine tuning this one for ages now and it seems a shame not to post him. What with the current trend for dwarven defenders it sames quite appropriate too.
He's meant to be a tanking caster; basically unkillable due to damage reduction, AC and HP. Able to deal out lots of arcane damage at the same time so Auto Still Spell was a must. I wanted him to have Dev Crit too but doing that ended up nerfing the spells and DR by needing too many Great Strength feats.
Starts as a Wizard with stats Str 13 Dex 13 Con 18 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 6
The progression's a bit odd and the character is VERY weak at low levels. It ends up as Wizard 10 / Pale Master 16 / Dwarven Defender 14.
4 * Wizard 10 * Pale Master 10 * Dwarven Defender (he's not weak after this) 2 * Pale Master 6 * Wizard 3 * Dwarven Defender 4 * Pale Master 1 * Dwarven Defender
I took feats and stat increases like this: 1 - Dodge 3 - Toughness 4 - Dex +1 6 - Extend Spell 8 - Str +1 9 - Knockdown 12 - Still Spell, Con +1 15 - Improved Critical: greataxe (you can take Scimitar or something else if you prefer) 16 - Con +1 18 - Improved Knockdown 20 - Con +1 21 - Epic Damage Reduction 1 24 - Epic Damage Reduction 2, Con +1 27 - Great Intelligence 1, Great Intelligence 2* 28 - Int +1 30 - Great Intelligence 3 32 - Combat Casting*, Str +1 33 - Great Strength 1 36 - Auto Still Spell 1, Auto Still Spell 2**, Str +1 39 - Auto Still Spell 3, Epic Spell: Hellball** (or anything you prefer) 40 - Epic Damage Reduction 3***, Str +1
At level 40 he's quite the engine of destruction. He has 18 points of DR (enough to render IGMS almost useless), can cast level 9 spells in full plate and shield, 26 AC naked and without rerolling i got him up to 546 HP, rising to 626 and 30 AC in defensive stance. He can knock foes down with Bigby's spells or Improved Knockdown; while he doesn't get Dev Crit, his 18 Str is still decent for a build like this. If you don't think he needs the strength, take out the Great Strength 1 and replace it with Improved Combat Casting, a feat well suited to a build which needs to cast in melee.
I took the Wizard levels after a lot of PM levels so I could a) take Great Int as a bonus feat instead of the metamgic feats and b) choose to learn 6th, 7th and 8th level spells at the Wizard level ups. I don't know why these things works, they're probably illegal exploits anyway, but I'm glad they do.
I took Illusion as a spell school, but ended up not using many Illusion type spells. My favourites were the Bigby's spells and things like Cloudkill and Acid Fog. Choosing Illusion didn't seem to do me any harm though. I'm not entirely sure what the spell school does other than restrict your choice of spells; i've only ever used Generalist before. If anyone wants to explain it to me here I'd be much obliged.
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 02/27/08 02:45
You might have seen my version of this build, posted waaaaaay back on version 3 of this thread. Or was it v4? Anyway, I've updated him a bit now. I did it a little differently from you, the objective for my build was a dwarven tank, who can be an effective meat shield, primarily against other mages. He's still very much a work in progress but here's the current build. It's a marked improvement on the original.
Mandrake Stronginthearm, Dwarven Illusionist Tank finishes Wizard 10 / Dwarven Defender 14 / Pale Master 16 chooses spell school Illusion
Starting stats Str 13 Dex 13 Con 18 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 6
Boost Str at 4, 8 & 32. Con at 12, 16, 20 & 24. Int at 28 and back to Con for 36 & 40.
Level progression 4 * Wizard 10 * Pale Master 10 * Dwarven Defender 2 * Pale Master 6 * Wizard (level 32 after these wizard levels) 1 * Pale Master 2 * Dwarven Defender 1 * Pale Master 1 * Dwarven Defender 2 * Pale Master 1 * Dwarven Defender
The slightly odd level progression at the end enables Mandrake to max out his Discipline while using his feats for epic spells. Took me a while to remember how I did that bit. Speaking of skills, it's pretty much up to you what you do with them. I maxed Discipline, Concentration, Spellcraft, cross classed and I can't remember what the rest are used for. Pick whatever you like.
Feats 1 - Dodge 3 - Toughness 6 - Extend Spell 9 - Still Spell 12 - Combat Casting 15 - Weapon Focus: Greataxe 18 - Improved Critical: Greataxe 21 - Epic Damage Reduction 1 24 - Epic Damage Reduction 2 27 - Epic Damage Reduction 3, Great Intelligence 1* 30 - Great Intelligence 2 32 - Improved Combat Casting* (I love this feat) 33 - Auto Still Spell 1, Auto Still Spell 2** 36 - Auto Still Spell 3 39 - Epic Spell: Hellball, Epic Spell: Warding** 40 - Epic Weapon Focus: Greataxe ** denotes a Pale Master bonus feat * denotes a Wizard bonus feat
His final stats are Str 16 Dex 13 Con 24 Int 19 Wis 8 Cha 6
The interesting thing about this build is the way I've abused the Wizard bonus feats. I took them in the epic levels so Mandrake could boost his Intelligence and get Improved Combat Casting instead of picking the more usual Empower and Maximise feats, which aren't really the point of the build.
Mandrake's main strong points are his DR of 18/- and his HP. I re-rolled his hit dice to get maximum HP. He finishes with (16*6 + 10*4 + 14*12) = 304 (i think?) from levels +20 from Deathless Vigour +280 from having 24 Con +40 from Toughness giving 644 hit points, without buffing. His only buff that affects his HP is Endurance. This gives him at least another 40 hit points, and possibly 80. But his main source of bonus hit points is his Defensive Stance, which gives him +4 to Con, ie. another 80 hit points. So his final HP, with a bit of luck, is 804. An amount which gives Mandrake the ability to withstand 3 maximised IGMS and have 84 HP left over.
Another interesting thing about the way I levelled him up is that his Pale Master levels count half towards his spellcasting level. What that means is, when he's at wizard 4 / PM 12, then adds another Wizard level, he can pick spells as if he was a level 10 wizard levelling up to level 11 wizard. So he gets level 6, 7, 8, 9 arcane spells without having to look at scrolls. Comes in handy on a low magic world.
I was thinking about making him use a scimitar instead of a greataxe so he could get a shield as well. It'd make him even more reliant on crits to do some decent melee damage but the extra AC could be worth it. I was also considering trying to fit in Improved Knockdown but I don't know if it's worth it, of what feats I should drop. What does everyone else think?
o0ophrostbyteo0o Game Owner NWN NWN: SoU NWN: HotU
Joined: 06 Dec 2003 From: Pittsburgh, PA Posted: Tuesday, 06 April 2004 08:57PM I'd say either get a scimitar and shield, or use a greatsword. You won't be doing enough damage to warrant using a greataxe. a greatsword does the same maximum damage (12) has a higher minimum damage (2) and a better crit range, in exchange for a better multiplier. I prefer more of a chance of getting a crit, than more damage when you get one, especially since your strength is nothing too spectacular. You'll do more damage on average that way, especially if you can find room for improved critical (i'd suggest it over knockdown/improved knockdown). _________________ Universe.SYS corrupted. Reboot? [Y/N]
Herbie Shimmer Game Owner NWN NWN: SoU NWN: HotU
Joined: 04 Jun 2003 Posted: Tuesday, 06 April 2004 09:18PM Hmmmm.....The idea of a dwarf with a greatsword is just plain wrong to me, so I went for the axe. I wanted a double handed weapon because I originally planned on going for Dev Crit and the 50% extra Strength bonus to damage would have come in handy. I guess there isn't much point with only 16 strength, though.
He does get Improved Critical already, and I think if I lost two feats to accommodate Improved Knockdown it'd end up gimping his spell casting ability, which already isn't great. I think i'll replace the greataxe with a scimitar and leave him be for now.
Quote: Posted 04/07/04 03:56:37 (GMT) by Mithdradates
Interesting, better overall than what I suggested. Eh, but what do you expect from something I worked out over a cup of tea . Then again, I was making a character that I wanted to get hit .
Have you made this character? The reason I ask is that you need to be able to cast level 9 spells to get auto-still spell. I'm not sure, but I thought the pale master got his caster level boost on the even level, rather than the odd one. So I don't think you can take auto- still spell until you have 14 pale master levels. That's why I didn't bother with it.
I'd also be cautious about taking the epic spells on the pale master level. It should be fine because you meet all the requirements, but right now a pale master doesn't need to meet to the casting requirements to cast epic spells. When that bug gets fixed who knows how pale master epic spell casting will work? Also, the last time I made a pale master none of the HP bonuses got added on.
These builds have a very low AB. And they don't do alot of damage per hit. Really against most opponents you're only going to hit on a 19-20, so I say go for the axe and the extra damage. Again you could go for a greatsword, it is the better weapon, but a 4 ft. character with a 6 ft. sword just looks wrong. If you really want a high AC, go for the scimitar and shield (or keeping in dwarven style a battleaxe and shield).
I have made him, many times (looking for improvements) and you can definitely take Auto Still Spell 1&2 on level 33. It might be a bug, because your explanation makes sense. He'd need 14 PM and 10 Wiz levels to have the same spellcaster level as a level 17 wizard, which is the earliest wizards get level 9 spells. But I've made Mandrake over and over and he's always finished with Auto Still Spell 3 and 2 epic spells, when I've used this level progression.
If he's going to be a proper tank I think he'd need the better AC from the tower shield. He may as well take full advantage of his Auto Still Spell 3. I think his AB gets to about 45/40/35 when he's fully buffed, which, you're right, is pretty poor PvP. So even with a scimitar critting on 12-20, he's only going to get crits on a really high roll, in practice. Going for the battleaxe might be a better choice than scimitar, then. x3 multipliers are much underrated on this board I think, and with Keen Edge, Mandrake can get a threat range of 18-20, which is more or less the only time he'll hit anything anyway.