Well, I may have found a way to make Puff the Magic Dragon a whole lot tougher. Here is how. Devastating Critical doesn't mean anything unless people can actually hit your dragon. The highest attack bonus any melee person can get is a 28 WM/ 11 fighter/ 1 wizard using true strike gives +79. SBully and I originally made Puff using the Palemaster class because we wanted him to have immunity to critical hits. The PM also gets cool epic spells.

I've been testing all different kinds of dragon builds today. Puff has a couple flaws that I don't like. Puff can use Improved Knockdown on all his hits to get a free +8 to his attacks. This means with no equipment he'll be getting 4 attacks per round (because of haste). He'll get the attacks at +51/+46/+41/+51. That is not super good. He'll have an average to difficult time hitting higher AC opponents.

Let me suggest perhaps a better way to make Puff. It's hard to tell at this point, but I think this newer version of Puff the Magic Dragon is better. And Puff, for the most part, even though he won't have immunity to critical hits, won't have to worry about devastating critical. I'll explain that at the end.

If you want to play the original Puff you can. I might suggest doing something like what I just got done testing. I did 15 druid/ 15 cleric/ 10 monk. Being cleric gives me access to several spells that carry over even after being shifted (For those who like to double check, feel free to do so. I checked them all already.) I suggest going trickery and travel domains. Trickery for improved invisibility and travel for haste. Now you can extend your spells to and they'll last 30 rounds minimum.

Casting Divine Power will give Puff added attack bonus of +6. Casting Aid gives an extra +1. Casting Prayer gives +1 to attack and damage. Casting Battletide gives +2 to attack and +2 MAGICAL damage that carries over to the dragon. Casting an extended divine favor gives +5 to attack and +5 MAGICAL damage that carries over to the shifted form.

By going 10 levels of monk you get knockdown, improved knockdown, and cleave for free. Also, you get 5 attacks per round and your attacks are only at -3 each time instead of the normal -5. In fact, you get 5 normal attacks each round. You can get 8 attacks each round without cheating. 5 normal, +1 haste, +1 divine power, +1 flurry of blows. So this version of Puff the Magic Dragon will do 2-12 +25 (critical 19-20/x2). You'll also do an extra 7 magical damage each hit that will bypass physical reduction. So the new version of Puff gets 8 attacks and does more damage than the old. How's the attack bonus?

Well, you can get a free +8 to your attack roll by clicking on improved knockdown on every attack. So I was rolling the following attacks: +71/+68/+65/+62/+59/+56/+53. You'll probably never miss about 80% of the PC's out there with that type of roll. In fact, the newer version of Puff has almost as high an attack roll as that fighter/WM/wiz I talked about earlier. The only difference is Puff can get 8 attacks per round legitimately.

Furthermore, by going 15 cleric/ 15 druid, Puff can get level 8 druid and cleric spells. This is especially useful for when people catch you when you aren't shifted. Just cast one word of faith (no save) and people get blinded immediately. Also, getting level 8 druid spells means you can cast creeping doom, then shift. The enemy continues to get hit by creeping doom (up to 1000 hit points before creeping doom goes away) while you hack away at them.

Now here's another reason why devastating critical shouldn't bother you too much. After casting buffs, this version of Puff has an AC = 83. So for someone to kill you with devastating critical they have to first hit you (probably means they need to roll a 20 because Puff's AC is so high). Then they have to hit you again on the threat roll (they have to roll another 20). The chances of rolling two 20's in a row are 1 in 400. But this doesnt' kill Puff yet. Suppose someone with devastating critical does score a critical hit. Then Puff gets to try to make a fortitude save to cancel the devastating critical hit part.

Puffs saves are:
Fort 45
Reflex 37
Will 46

So puff will get 1d20 +45 to try to beat the devastating critical hit. Puff will make his save almost every single time. So who needs immunity to critial hits, when people have to roll two 20's in a row to critical hit you, and then Puff has to roll a 1 on his fortitude save to die from devastating critical. Also, with improved invisibility people miss half the time. The odds of rolling two 20's in a row followed by a 1 for Puff's roll on his save then figuring in the 50% concealment are 1/20 * 1/20 * 1/20 * 1/2 or 1 in 16000. So I don't see any point in going the Palemaster part except for the cool epic spells and the immunity to hold, paralyzation, and stun. This newer version is 99.99% immune to devastating critical.

Okay, going 10 levels of monk gives you an extra 30% speed bonus. Don't forget haste gives you 50% move bonus too. Have you seen a dragon move at 180% speed. It's incredibly fast. The monk levels also give the ability to use stunning fists. With stunning fists you can hold somone for 3 rounds. Puff's DC for stunning fists is as follows: 10 (base) + 20 (half character level) + 16 (wisdom modifier) = 46. Not many characters cansurvive a stunning fist attack with a DC of 46. It's really easy to hold someone for 3 rounds while you beat on them.

I got Puff to 1033 hit points on the newer version without re-rolling. His max hit point calculation is as follows for this build:
15 druid x 8 = +120
15 cleric x 8 = +120
10 monk x 8 = +80
max endurance = +80
max aura vitality = +80
ext blood frenzy = +20
shifting changes base dex to 32 or +11 modifier. So 11 * 40 = +440
temp dragon hit points = +100
toughness = +40
Total = 1080 hit points.

Anyway, it's a tradeoff you will all have to decide. If you want the epic spells, and immunity to critical hits go Palemaster. If you want the extra melee attacks, extra speed, more damage, better saves, more hit points, better attack bonus, better AC then go cleric/monk/druid. Either way, Puff is one bad dragon.

This is off topic, but I've seen people say that 1200 hits is the most possible, but I think I could make a druid/dwarven defender/CoT that would have more than 1200 hit points.

cdaulepp

P.S. I tested Bigby's Forceful Hand on a couple arena servers, so I'm not sure if they have some screwy script with that spell or not. Puff would never get knocked down from that spell, however a medium size creature with improved knockdown can knock Puff down. I'm not sure why, but that's how it was working.

Edited By Cinnabar Din on 02/27/08 16:23

hmmm, posted this because otherwise we would have v.1 and v.3 but no v.2 Would like to see levelling guide added Hi Billb0,

This is quite an amazing build by cdaulepp. I played it on a previous server and everyone was impressed by it. I did change a couple of things to suit my server at the time, and it worked out perfectly.

Now comes the problem. I did have a (very) vague writeup from one of the epic character build threads (in addition to this one), where cdaulepp gave this lvl'ing guide. He didn't include any skills, only lvl's, classes at lvl's and feats. I emailed this to my home address and lost my data so I also lost this writeup.

I am going to try and search for this, but I've been doing this for most of today, and I haven't had any luck. Is there any way we could (force) Mr Aulepp to just write up a quick lvl'ing guide for this monster build that he made? Even if it's just from memory (which is, if it's anything close to mine, pretty scratchy at best). I will then do some tests and do a full writeup once I have built it and tested on a couple of servers.

Or if anyone can find the writeup that he did and post it here, I will also do a complete writeup once I have built it again.

Thanks for any help. I wasn't able to find the level-by-level guide for Version 2.0, but here is the link to his entry in the General forums. You can download the .bic of Version 2.0 and then de-level it in a training mod from 40-1 seeing the leveling pattern (such a mod can be found in the URL in my signature) or use Leto to analyze the level-by-level breadkdown.

There is also a link to an Excel file for his Version 3.0 which he says is a better build.

Good luck:
Click Here

Kaliban
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Test your new builds in this mod:
Click Here Thanks Kaliban,

I actually thought of that this morning. Too bad I didn't think of this yesterday. I did download his .bic file and had a look at it, and did write down all the feats, and skills, but did not delevel it. Pitty, cause now I already started my character on our PW. Not too sure if it will work out.

I am a bit addicted to online gaming and I cannot spend the time at night to even plan my character. I HAVE to do it at work, and play at night. So this character might be a screwup, but it's a risk I'm willing to take... I cannot minimize my online time! Not at all!

Anyways, found a copy of NWN on one o my drives with a No-CD patch, so I'll be de-leveling now at the office, and starting a new char on the server. I will also write down the progression and starting and ending stats, and post it here, so that others may enjoy this awesome build.

Thanks for the help anyways. So will the lvl up guide be posted soon?
Quote: Posted 12/31/04 08:42:33 (GMT) -- Firestar Rogue

Thanks Kaliban,

I actually thought of that this morning. Too bad I didn't think of this yesterday. I did download his .bic file and had a look at it, and did write down all the feats, and skills, but did not delevel it. Pitty, cause now I already started my character on our PW. Not too sure if it will work out.

I am a bit addicted to online gaming and I cannot spend the time at night to even plan my character. I HAVE to do it at work, and play at night. So this character might be a screwup, but it's a risk I'm willing to take... I cannot minimize my online time! Not at all!

Anyways, found a copy of NWN on one o my drives with a No-CD patch, so I'll be de-leveling now at the office, and starting a new char on the server. I will also write down the progression and starting and ending stats, and post it here, so that others may enjoy this awesome build.

Thanks for the help anyways.

Sounds like a good plan!

One note - rather then use no CD patches, I create an ISO image of the HOTU CD and then use Daemon tools to mimic a virtual CD drive (in which I 'mount' the HOTU image). This way I can play without swapping or scratching CD's and I don't have to mess with sketchy No CD hacks.

Kaliban.
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i sent cdaulepp a pm, unfortunately he does,nt have
a feats list , he told me where to search but after
an hour searching with no luck, i downloaded the bic.file.
here are the feats (what order you take them i don,t know)

unless, you wait for Firestar Rogue
to build this character on the PW he plays on
until then, here they are.. hope they help.....


Puff The Magic Dragon v 2.0 (feats list)


Animal Companion (Wolf)
Armour Proficiency (heavy)
Armour Proficiency (light)
Armour Proficiency (medium)
Armour Skin
Blind Fight
Called Shot
Cleave
Deflect Arrows
Disarm
Dragon Shape
Empower Spell
Energy Resistance (cold 1)
Epic Character
Evasion
Extend Spell
Flurry of Blows
Great wisdom 111
Improved Critical(unarmed strike)
Improved Evasion
Improved Initiative
Improved Knockdown
Improved Unarmed strike
Ki-strike + 1
Knockdown
Maximize Spell
Monk AC Bonus
Monk Speed
Nature Sense
Purity of Body
Quick to Master
Resist Nature`s Lure
Shield Proficiency
Still Mind
Stunning Fist
Toughness
Trackless Step
Travel Domain Powers
Trickery Domain Powers
Turn Undead
Venom Immunity
Weapon Proficiency(Druid)
Weapon Proficiency(Monk)
Weapon Proficiency(Simple)
Wholeness of Body
Wild Shape(5 x day)
Woodland Stride

griphook

...but don,t forget cdaulepp say,s puff v 3.0 is the best version

Edited By griphook on 01/09/05 01:42

Puff Version 2 Lvl up guide:

This is how cdaulepp did it using his .BIC file.

Lvl Up guide:

1 - C - Extend Spell, Toughness
2 - C -
3 - C - Blind Fight
WIS 4 - C -
5 - C -
6 - C - Maximize Spell
7 - C -
WIS 8 - C -
9 - C - Called Shot
10 - C -
11 - C -
WIS 12 - C - Imp Crit (Unarmed Strike)
13 - M -
14 - M -
15 - M - Disarm
WIS 16 - M -
17 - D -
18 - D - Imp Initiative
19 - D -
WIS 20 - D -
21 - C - Great WIS 1
22 - C -
23 - C -
WIS 24 - M - Great WIS 2
25 - M -
26 - M -
27 - M - Great WIS 3
WIS 28 - M -
29 - D -
30 - D - Armor Skin
31 - D -
WIS 32 - D -
33 - D - Empower Spell
34 - D -
35 - D -
WIS 36 - D - Epic Energy Resistance (Cold)
37 - D -
38 - D -
39 - D - Dragon Shape
CHA 40 - M -

Starting Stats:
STR - 8
DEX - 8
CON - 8
WIS - 18
INT - 14
CHA - 15

Stats, fully buffed and shifted:
+61/+58/+55/+52/+49/+46/+43
DMG : 2-12 + 25
: 2-12 + 25
: 2-12 + 25
+1 Slashing

Fort : 43
Refl : 35
Will : 44

BAB : 25

AC : 83

This is a really good character, but can use a little more AB. If you can get his AB up to 65-68, then he would be a real match, but his AB is his weakness. That said, 61 AB is not to be sneezed at.

I hope this helps.
Cheers
Firestar While his explanation of who needs immune to crits is compelling..just rememebr that alot of that is going to be PW dependant. I play on a PW with a Dragon I made that has a 48 fort and a 97 AC. I get dev critted alot.

I HATE that over powered feat......wish it would go away.