Class: Rogue 17/Wizard 1/Arcane Archer 22 Race: Elf Stats: Str 10, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Chr 8 Skills: Max Tumble, Open Lock, Disable Trap, Use Magic Device, Search. 30 ranks of Hide. 22 ranks of Spellcraft. I also maxed Appraise since it was beneficial on my server.
1: Rogue - Point Blank Shot 2: Rogue 3: Rogue - Weapon Focus Longbow 4: Rogue - Dex 21 5: Rogue 6: Rogue - Rapid Shot 7: Rogue 8: Rogue - Dex 22 9: Wizard - Dodge 10: AA 11: AA 12: AA - Imp. Crit Longbow - Dex 23 13: AA 14: AA 15: Rogue - Toughness, Imp. Evasion 16: AA - Dex 24 17: AA 18: Rogue - Mobility 19: AA 20: Rogue - Dex 25 21: Rogue - Defensive Roll, Epic Dodge 22: AA 23: AA 24: AA - Dex 26, Great Dex 27 25: Rogue 26: AA 27: AA - Great Dex 28 28: AA - Dex 29 29: AA - Great Dex 30 30: Rogue - Self Concealment I 31: AA 32: AA - Dex 31 33: AA - Self Concealment II 34: AA - Epic Weapon Focus Longbow 35: Rogue - Self Concealment III 36: AA - Dex 32, Self Concealment IV 37: AA 38: AA 39: AA - Self Concealment V, Great Dex 33 40: Rogue - Dex 34
This Char has a very nice AB (with a +5 bow and maxed dex of 46 my char's AB is 63, 58, 53, 48), does 9d6 sneak attack damage per hit, adds +11 (to hit and damage) to each arrow fired, has super ac, dodges the first hit of every round, and has permanent 50% concealment.
Edited By Aquion Charlemagne on 03/03/04 19:18:30
Edited By Bromium on 10/12/07 19:28
I have no idea how you made this character. I couldn't get it to work at all -- you don't get Improved Evasion where you say, nor Defensive Roll or Epic Dodge, or pretty much any of the epic feats. Did you actually test this build?
I seem to have that problem with alot of these build..alot of stuff isn't available where it says it should be...
I'll have a quick go of correcting the build. I haven't tested this version either, but it *should* work fine. I've included how many levels in each class the character should have at each level, to make it easier to follow. The Rogue bonus feats are denoted by a * while the AA bonus feats are denoted by a **.
There, i think that should sort out a few problems. Didn't have to drop any Self Concealment feats either, which i thought would have to happen. A word of warning though - I think it would be better to drop Mobility for Weapon Finesse and go use a rapier, when someone gets close enough to melee. Or take Called Shot instead, and ensure they never get near enough to hit you with anything. It's a minor point though, the build in general is excellent. 9d6 sneak attacks, Self Concealment 5 and Epic Dodge in one nice archer-shaped package? Yes please!
Nice build, just one thought.
As you could take EWF before SC1 it suggests that you could start with Dex 19 and put 3 points somewhere else. Possibly Str (+ the odd extra point late). Trade 1 AB to get an extra 2 damage with a composite bow.
I think this could be a good trade because on sneak immune targets the damage output might need a boost.
Thanks for fixing this build and reposting.
Does this build really need Dodge and Mobility feats? With such a high dex and tumble I would think those two feats could be better used.
Does this build really need Dodge and Mobility feats? With such a high dex and tumble I would think those two feats could be better used.
Thoughts?
Thanks, Kaliban
Dodge is actually a little-known pre-requisite for Epic Dodge, so you have to keep that one. But yeah, as I said above, I'd trade Mobility for Weapon Finesse or Called Shot.
This is one of the best builds Ive seen for a while. Can someone post AB and AC?
Oh and Herbie, thanks for posting that build in detail. Most kind of you.
Again, I haven't built it myself, but here's a quick run-down of how the AB and stuff should pan out. Without magical equipment, obviously. AB 26 BAB +12 Dex modifier +11 Enchant Arrow bonus +3 Weapon Focus / Epic Weapon Focus = 52 AB unbuffed. I don't even know what buffs are available for this character, except True Strike. So that's +72 to attack, but for a very short time.
AC 10 base +12 Dex modifier +8 Tumble = 30 AC unbuffed. Don't think there are any buffs available for AC for this character. That AC does seem rather low, though he does have Epic Dodge and SC5 to help it out.
Damage 1d8 +11 Enchant Arrow bonus +1 Point Blank Shot +9d6 sneak attack = 28 to 74 damage, if you include the sneak attacks and are within 30 feet (I think) of the enemy. Crits on 19 or 20, with a x3 multiplier.
HP Rogue levels: (17x6) = 102 AA levels: (22x8) = 176 Wizard levels: (1x4) = 4 (surprisingly! ) Con bonus = 40 Toughness = 40 = 462 in total. Damn good for an archer, I believe.
Saves Fortitude 3+6+0 (base) + 10 (epic levels bonus) = 19 (27 vs. spells) Reflex 7+6+0 + 10 = 24 (32) Will 3+2+2 = 17 (25) I guess his saves are quite weak; I may fiddle around with his levelling pre-20 to see what can be done for them.
*EDIT* In fact, if you take the levels as Rogue 9 / Wizard 1 / AA 10 up to level 20, you end up with the following saves: f 3+7+0 = 10 r 6+7+0 = 14 w 3+3+2 = 8 which is +1 to Fortitude and Will. Levelling this way means not taking Improved Evasion til epic levels though, which could play merry hell with the order of epic feats. It's up to you if you want to change it, i mean, it is only +1 to Fortitude and Will, nothing major.
Does this build really need Dodge and Mobility feats? With such a high dex and tumble I would think those two feats could be better used.
Thoughts?
Thanks, Kaliban
Dodge is actually a little-known pre-requisite for Epic Dodge, so you have to keep that one. But yeah, as I said above, I'd trade Mobility for Weapon Finesse or Called Shot.
Doh. I knew that. I was looking at them thinking "Why take Shadowdancer prereqs?" Now I know why :)
Thanks guys. I really like this build. Maybe the ab is a bit lacking but the sneaks will make up for it.
I started making this in the pw I play in and its already doing well.
Also I hardly played any rogue, but the combat takes a whole different angle when you try to hit monsters in the back for sneaks. Much less boring then sword and shield melee type.
Maybe a stupid question but why 1 lvl wizard?
You need to cast *Arcane* Spells to take *Arcane* Archer.
You need to cast *Arcane* Spells to take *Arcane* Archer.
Bard is also a bridging class to qualify for Arcane Archer, but you would have experience penalties if you used bard in place of wizard since Wizard is the favored class for elves. So either wizard or bard, and wizard is the best choice here.
Kaliban.
Arcane spellcasters = Bard/Sorceror/Wizard, but here Wizard is by far the best, as apart from removing XP penalties, Int is also useful to the build for skills, while Cha is pretty useless.
And you dont need bard for UMD or tumble, because you are already getting it from the Rogue levels.
One of the good things of this build is the many skillpoints. Especially for PW's with high dc locks or even the nasty pickpocket skill is very usefull.
I see, thx all. Yeah looks realy fun. I'll try it for my next new character.
Ok i am very disapointed by this. This build is not possible!!!
I started it in my pw and you cant get epic dodge at lvl 24, because you cant get tumble up to lvl 30 by then.
I cant believe no one saw this. Lots of hours down the drain, waste of time.
How come all you experts didnt see this?
Everyone beware!
I would like salvage instructions. I am at lvl 23, ready to levelup to 24. Like I said I cant get Epic dodge like in the build you guys posted (god that is so annoying). So please state what is the best way to still make the best of this now mediocre build.
Calm down tanassi. As I stated when I reposted the build, it wasn't tested, and yes, sorry, I made a mistake. It was only a conjecture, intended to help people. If you want to follow an untested build of someone else's, that's up to you.
But once you've calmed down, it should be a bit of a no-brainer to see that you can swap the Great Dex feat taken on level 27 with Epic Dodge. So on level 24, you take Great Dex and Defensive Roll, then on level 27, you take Epic Dodge.
Hope that works and clears things up for you. Let me know if it doesn't allow you to take Epic Dodge on 27; I think I can re-jig the levelling order again so you don't have to drop it.
Actually, doing what I said above won't work either....you need to take a Rogue level on 27 in order to pump Tumble up to 30 ranks. Here's what you should do from level 24 onwards:
24: Rogue 13 / AA 10 / Wizard 1 - Dex 27, Defensive Roll*, Great Dex 28 25: AA 11 / Rogue 13 / Wizard 1 26: AA 12 / Rogue 13 / Wizard 1 27: Rogue 14 / AA 12 / Wizard 1 - Epic Dodge 28: AA 13 / Rogue 14 / Wizard 1 - Dex 29 29: AA 14 / Rogue 14 / Wizard 1 - Great Dex 30** 30: Rogue 15 / AA 14 / Wizard 1 - Self Concealment I 31: AA 15 / Rogue 15 / Wizard 1 32: AA 16 / Rogue 15 / Wizard 1 - Dex 31 33: AA 17 / Rogue 15 / Wizard 1 - Self Concealment II 34: AA 18 / Rogue 15 / Wizard 1 - Epic Weapon Focus Longbow** 35: Rogue 16 / AA 18 / Wizard 1 - Self Concealment III* 36: AA 19 / Rogue 16 / Wizard 1 - Dex 32, Self Concealment IV 37: AA 20 / Rogue 16 / Wizard 1 38: AA 21 / Rogue 16 / Wizard 1 39: AA 22 / Rogue 16 / Wizard 1 - Self Concealment V, Great Dex 33** 40: Rogue - Dex 34
Now I *really* can't see any reason why that wouldn't work. But again, it's not tested, since I don't have NWN installed at the moment. Let us know if this version doesn't work either.
Quote: Posted 11/26/04 10:10:46 (GMT) -- tanassi
I would like salvage instructions. I am at lvl 23, ready to levelup to 24. Like I said I cant get Epic dodge like in the build you guys posted (god that is so annoying). So please state what is the best way to still make the best of this now mediocre build.
Like Herbie said: Calm down! Geez louise, it's just a game. "Many hours lost" you say? This is only the day after you said you'd try it, so it can't be that many hours...and if you reached level 24 within 24 hours of playing time then it can't take too long to level up another build (if that's even necessary).
My point in writing though, is to encourage you (and everyone else) to test any builds in an off-line training mod before going online and investing time. The mod I find best for this is the Novice to Epic Training Mod (see link in my sig).
But really, lighten up on people - no one is getting paid for posting builds here. It's a helpful place. Don't burn bridges by making nasty, spiteful comments because you didn't test someone's Untested Build.
Kaliban. _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
Edited By Kaliban99 on 11/26/04 18:13
The manual lies. You don't need any ranks in tumble to get Epic Dodge.
The manual lies. You don't need any ranks in tumble to get Epic Dodge.
You do need 1 rank in tumble. Just not the 30 like the manual says. I talked with Georg Zoeller several months ago when I was looking at 2da files. The epic dodge feat jus has a misentry with the rank level for tumble. Every other source says it is supposed to be 30. He said the design team had no agenda to fix it though. That being the case, if you had 25 dex at level 21 and all the feats and skills, you could get epic dodge as soon as then.
On a side note, if you know how to edit the 2da files, it isn't hard to fix this for yourself to make the feat correct. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Ok Ive calmed down. Sorry about my rant. I should have tested it indeed. You guys are expert but I should still test.
I think on the server I play they fixed that 30 tumble thing. Because I have all the feats and perqs necessary, but it still didnt come up as an optional feat.
I'll see how it progresses according to herbies new method. Thanks for that.
Once again appologies for my behaviour...
Tanassi,
What you can do with your online character is Export him (save him) to your local NWN directory. Then launch your favorite trainer mod (eg. the Novice to Epic mod in my signature). You will be able to select the local copy of your PW character as a premade character. Now you can level him/her up and test different paths to level 40 to see what you like. Take notes (I use a standard Excel blank character sheet I made) then save those notes and use them to guide you as your online character levels up.
Good luck. Kaliban _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
Aaah, never thought of that. Thanks Kaliban!
Just a note here on this build.
I built this on my persistant world and found it highly effective indeed. My only complaint is the need to get sneak attack damage into the equation in order to do lots of damage. I did change mobility out for weapon finesse, as I find myself running around with a shield and rapier alot against mobs. That said, I was in a party last night that ran into a group of minions and out of 5 guys that went in, I only died after I mistakenly took off a piece of gear that made me immune to fear. Everyone else died 5 or 6 times or more. The key here was that devastating crit from the minions just never went off on my character. Everyone else was falling over quite a bit from just that one feat. After correcting my problem I was able to go back in and get everyone else.
A shout out to the original author and the fellows that came thru and corrected what few mistakes he had in the original posting. I like the versatility of the build lots of skill points, high ab, and high ac. With the rapier I am sporting I have a 56 ab with this build and can bump it to 76 with true strike. Not to shabby for an archer.
-Pendragon
I can see it now: While not his build, Syrath is still going to feel like a proud parent after reading your comments on Epid Dodge and Self Concealment V.
Thanks for posting your experience with this build! I have a modified Rogue Archer build I designed (he gets ED and SCV instead of bonus Sneak Attacks) and I'm working him up on a PW right now. Never had a PW character get high enough for Self Concealment.
Thanks, Kaliban _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
I finished this build on my pw too. It is a good build when it gets in sneaks. Only thing that worries me is that I am not quite sure the SC 5 feat works. It should make opponents hit me only halve the time, but how can I check?
I am also looking for a crit immune version, but that would be a pm one, and they seriously lack ab.
To get decent AB on the PM/AA mix go 8 bard 2 pm 10 AA pre-epic, then finish it with 8 pm 11 AA and 1 bard. You get 27 BAB with +11 enchanted arrows. _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
Quote: Posted 01/31/05 12:30:06 (GMT) -- tanassi
I finished this build on my pw too. It is a good build when it gets in sneaks. Only thing that worries me is that I am not quite sure the SC 5 feat works. It should make opponents hit me only halve the time, but how can I check?
I am also looking for a crit immune version, but that would be a pm one, and they seriously lack ab.
For a crit-immune (and Sneak Immune!) archer, check out this thread for an Undead Archer build by Evo Dragon: Click Here
It finishes as Bard 5/PM 16/AA 19 with these stats: AC 43 HP 317 BA 26 AB: 52/47/42/37 Fort Save 24 Reflex Save 36 Will Save 21 Feats: Max: UMD, Tumble, Spellcraft, Perform (10) Epic Warding, Epic Mage Armor
Or these stats (my changes to his build): AC 42 HP 351 BA 26 AB: 51/46/41/36
If you can't find the build let me know as I have it in Excel.
Kaliban _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
a very simlar lvl spread to the two divine archers, and it works wonders.
Just as the manual is wrong about the Tumble reqiured for Epic Dodge, It is also wrong when it says you need dodge as a prereq for Epic dodge (as odd as that sounds). _________________ I'll look for ya.
I'd take Iron Will or Great Fortitude (or maybe Luck of Heroes) over Toughness. With the concealment and Epic Dodge, an extra 20 hit points aren't going to be that helpful in the face of someone who can actually get to you and HIT you! This build has low hit dice and only 12 CON, so better to add to your weak saves than HP... at least by my reckoning.
I like the concept. . . nice job on the group effort.
I've tweaked it to my tastes; I'll test it tonight and advise but it should be fairly solid:
Arcane Archer 22/Rogue 16/Wiz 2 Elf
Str 10 Dex 20 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 8
1: Rogue 1 - Point Blank Shot 2: Rogue 2 3: Rogue 3 - Weapon Focus Longbow 4: Rogue 4 - Dex 21 5: Rogue 5 6: Rogue 6 - Rapid Shot 7: Rogue 7 8: Rogue 8 - Dex 22 9: Wizard 1– Called Shot 10: AA 1 11: AA 2 12: AA 3 - Imp. Crit Longbow - Dex 23 13: AA 4 14: AA 5 15: AA 6 – Blind Fight 16: AA 7 - Dex 24 17: AA 8 18: AA 9 – Great Fortitude 19: AA 10 20: Wiz 2 - Dex 25 21: Rogue 9 EWF (Longbow) 22: Rogue 10 RFeat: Imp. Evasion 23: AA 11 24: AA 12 Dex 26, Armor Skin 25: AA 13 26: AA 14 – AAFeat: Great Dex 27 27: Rogue 11 Epic Fortitude 28: Rogue 12 Dex 28 29: AA 15 30: Rogue 13 RFeat: Defensive Roll; Epic Dodge 31: AA 16 32: AA 17 Dex 29 33: AA 18 - AA Feat: Great Dex 30; Self Concealment I 34: Rogue 14 35: AA 19 36: AA 20 - Dex 31, Self Concealment II 37: AA 21 38: AA 22 AA Feat: Epic Prowess 39: Rogue 15 - Self Concealment III 40: Rogue 16 - Self Concealment IV; Dex 32
Epic Dodge is very nice when you consider that every attack you make as an archer can give rise to an AoO.
You'll note that I changed your level split to include 1 more wizard. I didn't like taking rogue to 9 in pre-epic when Wizard 2 was there with the additional AB. Taking rogue 9 there cost you an AB and you were already forgoing Epic Prowess, which I've added in. I didn't think rogue 17 was worth it, in short.
Yours gets to 34 Dex; I opted for EP and Armor Skin, which also permitted me to take Epic Fortitude.
I've added Called Shot because, well, you have have something going for you to win and Called Shot is awesome for an archer. *Activates Rapid Shot* *Casts True Strike* *Called Shot: Leg* *Called Shot: Leg* *Called Shot: Leg* *Called Shot: Leg* *Called Shot: Leg* then *Called Shot: Arm*
If they are still alive after four rounds, rinse and repeat.
Ithacan
Edited By Ithacan on 01/29/07 23:25
It can't be done the way I proposed because you can't take Self Concealment I on the same level you take Great Dexterity to get your dexterity to the requisite 30 (why is another question).
so. . .
24: AA 12 Dex 26, Armor Skin 25: AA 13 26: AA 14 – AAFeat: Great Dex I 27 27: Rogue 11 Great Dex II 28 28: Rogue 12 Dex 29 29: AA 15 30: Rogue 13 RFeat: Defensive Roll; Epic Dodge 31: AA 16 32: AA 17 Dex 30 33: AA 18 - AA Feat: Great Dex III 31; Self Concealment I 34: Rogue 14 35: AA 19 36: AA 20 - Dex 32, Self Concealment II 37: AA 21 38: AA 22 AA Feat: Great Dex IV 33 39: Rogue 15 - Self Concealment III 40: Rogue 16 - Self Concealment IV; Dex 34
A word of warning though - I think it would be better to drop Mobility for Weapon Finesse and go use a rapier, when someone gets close enough to melee. Or take Called Shot instead, and ensure they never get near enough to hit you with anything. It's a minor point though, the build in general is excellent. 9d6 sneak attacks, Self Concealment 5 and Epic Dodge in one nice archer-shaped package? Yes please! 
Nice build, just one thought.
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