I was playing the hometown diablo mod for NWN, and came up with this idea. The basic concept is that with the diablo type unique drop code, you never really can be sure what goodie you are going to get, and so it is pointless to go for specialization and the critical path as these require you to commit to a specific weapon. There is nothing worse than being specialized in longsword and getting an uber drop rapier that you are reluctant to use because you poured so much of your build into your spec. Furthermore, most of the higher level stuff is immune to sneak, critical anyway. So I wanted to make a guy who could use any weapon he found and survive well against the mass legions of this kind of mod, and I wanted a build that was playable the entire way through and did not resort to gimmicks that made you play in gimp mode prior to reaching 40.

Start dwarf fighter, and take default attributes,

16str
13dex
18con
10int
10wis
7cha

Level like this

7 fighter
10 dwarf defender
3 rogue
20 dwarf defender

So you would finish at 7fighter, 3 rogue, 30 dd.

By 20 you have 11 feats to get (7 base + 4 from fighter). I went

power attack
cleave
toughness - necessary for dd
dodge- necessary for dd
great cleave- your bread and butter for mass kill diablo
exotic- lets you use all weapons
knockdown- good for witches and casters
called shot- good to wear down the big bosses
mobility
spring- useful for lag, wehre game updates you in middle of a pack of creatures and gives them all attacks of opportunity
blind fight- or pick your favorite. I would go for energy resistance as an alt

For stat pumps at 4 and 8 go into STR, then at 12, 16, 20 go into con. This puts you at the 21 con you need for damage reduction, which you will max out. In the epic levels suit yourself...the goal however is to just keep that damage reduction coming from dwarf defender. Once damage reduction is done, I would consider pumping energy resistance or something like that to further improve your overall hardening.

I take 3 in rogue at lvls 18, 19, 20 and pump up use magic item. This will let you use most scrolls (if not all) you find or buy to buff/ get an edge on particularly hard fights, and UMD fits in well with a generalist idea. Evasion is a nice extra.

I had considered going 6 monk, 4 fighter, 10 DD prior to epic to get improved knockdown from monk, but would rather get the UMD. Improved knockdown is nice when your build wants to rely upon it as a regular attack form, but for occasional use v. casters, regular knockdown usually is sufficient.

The level path like this gives you your 4 attacks ASAP and a pile of hitpoints. In this build you gather up 3 nice weapons: slash, blunt, and pierece. You hotkey switch between them depending upon your target. You are set up to use the best item for the situation at hand.

Edited By Lok-SG on 04/08/04 06:41:56 I'd like to ressurect this post to see if there are any fresh takes. I was wondering what you gain by taking the 3rd rogue lvl. I was trying a similar build, but started thinking about epic weap. spec & maybe taking 2 lvls rogue at 19-20 then a lvl of fighter epic. If it's only 1d6 more on the sneak att it could be a good trade off for me. Just wondering if I'm missing something Thx!
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A black eye heals, but cowardice has a long shelf-life.
-Xander Harris The feat that you MUST take epic is epic prowess. Otherwise, good luck with it.

peace
Quote: Posted 03/11/05 00:32:12 (GMT) -- joemanb

I'd like to ressurect this post to see if there are any fresh takes. I was wondering what you gain by taking the 3rd rogue lvl. I was trying a similar build, but started thinking about epic weap. spec & maybe taking 2 lvls rogue at 19-20 then a lvl of fighter epic. If it's only 1d6 more on the sneak att it could be a good trade off for me. Just wondering if I'm missing something Thx!

You missed one of the key points of the build, which is to NOT expend any feats on weapon focus/specialization.

The build also is meant to get maximal DR, so you need all 30 levels of DD--thus you cannot take any other class in epic levels. If you did want to sacrifice DR, you needn't drop any of the three rogue levels--you could simply take level 21 as a fighter level--it will be your eighth fighter level and thus you would be eligible for both the regular 21 feat and the fighter bonus feat for an even fighter level--which could get you both epic weapon focus and epic weapon spec. But again--kinda straying from the non-weapon-focused nature of the build. Presumably the 3rd rogue level is for Uncanny Dodge I. That's generally the reason many builds that take a few rogue levels take 3 of them (especially for dex based builds).

Steve Thx for the replies. I guess I was a bit confused then, I thought I could take 1 lvl of fighter after lvl 20 & get the option for epic weapon spec. Still ending up at fighter8/rogue2/DwD30. But you're saying I need to actually be an Epic fighter specifically(20+lvls of fighter) to get access to it. Gotcha makes my decision easy then. Again thx!
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A black eye heals, but cowardice has a long shelf-life.
-Xander Harris no, you don't have to be an epic fighter (20+lvls in class) to take Epic Weapon specialization. However, in order to take 30 lvls of DwD, you have to take 20 in epic lvls, so you can never take a fighter lvl in epic.

On another note, Since DwDs get that "can't be flanked" feat that I cannot remember the name of, I am not sure that Uncanny Dodge would be all that valuable to this specific build. Evasion and the skill points for tumble might though.
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Click Here Yar! That's what I was missing, no more DwD lvls pre-epic (10 cap). It all makes sense now
Quote: Posted 03/12/05 00:54:05 (GMT) -- Yar Stardawg

no, you don't have to be an epic fighter (20+lvls in class) to take Epic Weapon specialization. However, in order to take 30 lvls of DwD, you have to take 20 in epic lvls, so you can never take a fighter lvl in epic.

On another note, Since DwDs get that "can't be flanked" feat that I cannot remember the name of, I am not sure that Uncanny Dodge would be all that valuable to this specific build. Evasion and the skill points for tumble might though.

Uncanny dodge lets you keep your dex bonus when you are flatfooted. If you are flanked you actually arent flat footed in the first place(the attacker only gets a bonus to hit), the real question is why you would want to take 3 levels in a class so you can get +1 AC when flatfooted.

Syrath
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It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!
Quote:  Neverwinter Grimoire
Defensive Awareness
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Dwarven Defender 2
Specifics: The character retains his DEX bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.

Uncanny Dodge I
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Barbarian 2, Rogue 3, Shadowdancer 2, Assassin 2
Specifics: The character retains his dexterity bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.

I have never understood the difference, but I do not claim the expertise to go in and look at what the engine does.

As for the three lvls or rogue on this build...perhaps he wants the skill points from rogue to get his tumble to 20 and UMD to 23 before he goes into epic instead of at lvl 37
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Click Here

Edited By Yar Stardawg on 03/12/05 12:55

Quote: Posted 03/12/05 12:54:00 (GMT) -- Yar Stardawg

Quote:  Neverwinter Grimoire
Defensive Awareness
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Dwarven Defender 2
Specifics: The character retains his DEX bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.

Uncanny Dodge I
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Barbarian 2, Rogue 3, Shadowdancer 2, Assassin 2
Specifics: The character retains his dexterity bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.

I have never understood the difference, but I do not claim the expertise to go in and look at what the engine does.

As for the three lvls or rogue on this build...perhaps he wants the skill points from rogue to get his tumble to 20 and UMD to 23 before he goes into epic instead of at lvl 37

The difference probably isn't with Level 1, but rather so that later levels can diversify. At Lvl 5 Defensive Awareness (3 I think) means you can no longer be flanked, and indeed, attackers don't get sneak attacks against you when they flank you. Pretty handy when surrounded by rogues. 5 levels of Dwarven Defender can be pretty handy in a build. Hi Bilbo,


First THANKS!! for sharing your build. I really like the idea of the survivalist type character. I have a question or just curious. If your going to have rogue in the build and only three levels. Why not take rogue at first level to get the max ability points for first level? Then also I'd space out the remaining two rogue levles at points in the build where you can max abilities with saved skill points between the rogue levels and have some better rogue skills during the leveling / life of the character. You take the three rogue levels at 18,19, and 20. I just don't understand why to take them all in a row like that.


Thanks again, Mano
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A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die! Sorry I should have addressed my previous post to Lok-SG the original poster of the build.

If anyone would care to explain the pros or cons of my question in my previous post, though please respond.


Thanks, Mano
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A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!