Playable from level 1 - 40 ..PvM Build

Originally posted on May 5th,
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3rd post down.

I'm not sure if someone posted a build similar to this one before. I was thinking about a more useful build than Ancilla and came up with this one.

Advantages
-With Taunt and Curse Song he can lower an opponents AC by 11 points. Let's say your playing on one of those servers where enemies have an AC of 100. With a melee weapon the best AB you can get (STR based) is 80. You can still only hit on a 20. If this guy in your party, he can lower that opponents AC by 11, with that 80 you now have a 55% chance to hit on your first attack.
-Good AB and Damage per hit.
-Use Magic Device of 43. He can use scrolls and items for other classes.
-Immune to Fire.
-Devastating Critical
-Level 5 Bard Spells

Disadvantages
-Low AC
-Low HP
-Low Saves, and no spell defense. Silence might help a bit, but it's not a sure thing. This guy is all about boosting his offense and decreasing the offense and defense of his opponents.

Irksome Wonder

Race Human

Alignment True Neutral

Base Attributes
STR 16
DEX 10
CON 10
WIS 8
INT 14
CHA 14

Leveling Guide
Levels 1-4 Bard
Levels 5-16 Fighter
Levels 17-26 Red Dragon Disciple
Levels 27-28 Fighter
Levels 29-40 Bard

Final Level Distribution
Bard 16
Fighter 14
Red Dragon Disciple 10

Attribute Bonuses
All 10 go to Strength

Feats
Level 1: Curse Song, Lingering Song
Level 3: Power Attack
Level 5: Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Level 6: Cleave, Great Cleave
Level 8: Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
Level 9: Improved Critical (Greatsword)
Level 10: Knockdown
Level 12: Improved Knockdown, Skill focus (Taunt)
Level 14: Disarm
Level 15: Toughness
Level 16: Improved Disarm
Level 18: Still Spell
Level 21: Epic Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Level 24: Epic Prowess
Level 27: Epic Skill Focus (Taunt)
Level 28: Epic Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
Level 30: Overwhelming Critical (Greatsword)
Level 33: Devastating Critical (Greatsword)
Level 36: Great Strength I
Level 39: Great Strength II

Final Attributes
STR 36
DEX 10
CON 12
WIS 8
INT 16
CHA 16

Final Saves
Fortitude 24
Reflexes 19
Will 21

Skill Points 225
Concentration 16 (17)
Discipline 43 (56)
Spellcraft 40 (43)
Taunt 43 (59)
Tumble 40 (40)
Use Magic Device 43 (46)

AB and Damage
(No items, no buffs)
45/40/35/30 25+2D6 (17-20 x2)
Devastating Critical DC 43

(+12 to Strength, True Strike, +5 keen Greatsword)
71/66/61/56 39+2D6 (15-20 x2)
Devastating Critical DC 49

AC 22 (No armor, no buffs)

Hit Points 388 (Maximum Every Level)
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.

Edited By griphook on 06/02/05 14:15

This is nice but IMO the Bard 23/RDD 10/WM 7 is much better. All those Fighter Feats aren't really needed IMO, and the Level 23 Bard Song plus spellcasting is really good, and the WM crits are awesome.
Quote: Posted 05/20/04 11:57:09 (GMT) -- CheesesLovesYou

This is nice but IMO the Bard 23/RDD 10/WM 7 is much better. All those Fighter Feats aren't really needed IMO, and the Level 23 Bard Song plus spellcasting is really good, and the WM crits are awesome.

The fighter build ends up with a 1 point higher AB. The fighter gets weapon specialization and epic weapon specialization for a +6 to damage, which is nice against the crit. immune. He also picks up 8 feats, as opposed to wasting 4 on dodge, mobility, spring attack, and whirlwind attack (sure it looks pretty but it's darn ineffective). As a result of this, the fighter picks up improved disarm and improved knockdown. The fighter also gets the martial weapons and heavy armor proficencies (This guy is going to wear armor and fill his spell slots with stilled spells). The 5th and 6th level bard spells are useless, except for dirge (which this character would have to take off his armor to cast if he could cast it anyway). The bard song doesn't get substantially better past level 16 (it just gets skillpoint and hitpoint damage) so 16 is the best bard level to stop at. The only advantage that the bard/RDD/weapon master has is the +2 to critical range. All things considered, I feel that if you are multiclassing, fighter is always a better choice than weapon master (atleast with the 3/4 and 1/2 AB classes).
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.

Edited By Mithdradates on 05/20/04 17:05

I agree on fighter build being better overall too.

As a suggestion, a variant of bard 20 / fighter 10 / RDD 10. Could lose three feats (Lingering Song, Skill Focus: Taunt, Epic Skill Focus: Taunt) in favour of Lasting Inspiration. In most cases 100-round lasting songs would give far more benefit, though I guess it depends on where are you going to play it.
Quote: Posted 05/20/04 16:39:38 (GMT) -- Mithdradates

Quote: Posted 05/20/04 11:57:09 (GMT) -- CheesesLovesYou

This is nice but IMO the Bard 23/RDD 10/WM 7 is much better. All those Fighter Feats aren't really needed IMO, and the Level 23 Bard Song plus spellcasting is really good, and the WM crits are awesome.

The fighter build ends up with a 1 point higher AB. The fighter gets weapon specialization and epic weapon specialization for a +6 to damage, which is nice against the crit. immune. He also picks up 8 feats, as opposed to wasting 4 on dodge, mobility, spring attack, and whirlwind attack (sure it looks pretty but it's darn ineffective). As a result of this, the fighter picks up improved disarm and improved knockdown. The fighter also gets the martial weapons and heavy armor proficencies (This guy is going to wear armor and fill his spell slots with stilled spells). The 5th and 6th level bard spells are useless, except for dirge (which this character would have to take off his armor to cast if he could cast it anyway). The bard song doesn't get substantially better past level 16 (it just gets skillpoint and hitpoint damage) so 16 is the best bard level to stop at. The only advantage that the bard/RDD/weapon master has is the +2 to critical range. All things considered, I feel that if you are multiclassing, fighter is always a better choice than weapon master (atleast with the 3/4 and 1/2 AB classes).

Actually having read a thread on the HOTU forum I have come round to this argument! The main problem with the WM version are Dogdge, Mobility and Spring Attack which are totally wasted IMO. I'm not convinved of the best level layout yet though, but certainly RDD 10 and Bard 16 minimum. I was thinking

Bard 1
Fighter 2
Bard 2
RDD 8
Bard 1
Fighter 6
(This is the best pre-Epic version I think.)

RDD 2
Fighter 2 (Epic WS)
Bard 12 or more
Rest Fighter.

Edited By CheesesLovesYou on 05/26/04 15:33

I just made this build to test out my training module, and I found a couple of bugs (I left out some attribute bonuses and didn't calculate the skillpoints correctly). Good news is with the corrections the build is much stronger. When I put through my training module he just slaughtered everything... Well here he is with the corrections.

Advantages
-With Taunt and Curse Song he can lower an opponent's AC by 11 points. Let's say your playing on one of those servers where enemies have an AC of 100. With a melee weapon the best AB you can get (STR based) is 80. You can still only hit on a 20. If this guy in your party, he can lower that opponents AC by 11, with that 80 you now have a 55% chance to hit on your first attack.
-Good AB and Damage per hit.
-Use Magic Device of 43. He can use scrolls and items for other classes.
-Immune to Fire.
-Devastating Critical.
-Level 5 Bard Spells. With his charisma buffed he can cast level 6 spells.

Disadvantages
-Low Saves, and no spell defense. Silence might help a bit, but it's not a sure thing. This guy is all about boosting his offense and decreasing the offense and defense of his opponents. Give him a few save boosting items and someting with evasion and he's almost unstoppable.

Irksome Wonder

Race Human

Alignment True Neutral

Base Attributes
STR 16
DEX 10
CON 14
WIS 8
INT 14
CHA 14

Leveling Guide
Levels 1-4 Bard
Levels 5-16 Fighter
Levels 17-26 Red Dragon Disciple
Levels 27-28 Fighter
Levels 29-40 Bard

Final Level Distribution
Bard 16
Fighter 14
Red Dragon Disciple 10

Attribute Bonuses
All 10 go to Strength

Feats
Level 1: Curse Song, Lingering Song
Level 3: Still Spell
Level 5: Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Level 6: Power Attack, Cleave
Level 8: Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
Level 9: Improved Critical (Greatsword)
Level 10: Knockdown
Level 12: Improved Knockdown, Skill focus (Taunt)
Level 14: Disarm
Level 15: Toughness
Level 16: Improved Disarm
Level 18: Great Cleave
Level 21: Overwhelming Critical (Greatsword)
Level 24: Devastating Critical (Greatsword)
Level 27: Epic Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Level 28: Epic Weapon Specialization (Greatsword)
Level 30: Epic Skill Focus (Taunt)
Level 33: Epic Prowess
Level 36: Great Strength I
Level 39: Great Strength II

Final Attributes
STR 36
DEX 10
CON 16
WIS 8
INT 16
CHA 16

Final Saves
Fortitude 26
Reflexes 19
Will 21

Skill Points 268
Concentration 26 (29)
Discipline 43 (56)
Lore 8 (27)
Perform 25 (28)
Spellcraft 40 (43)
Taunt 43 (59)
Tumble 40 (40)
Use Magic Device 43 (46)

AB and Damage
(No items, no buffs)
45/40/35/30 25+2D6 (17-20 x2)
Devastating Critical DC 43

(+12 to Strength, True Strike, +5 keen Greatsword)
71/66/61/56 39+2D6 (15-20 x2)
Devastating Critical DC 49

AC
22 (No armor, no buffs)
56 (Haste, +5 pull plate, +5 amulet of natural armor, +5 ring of protection, +5 boots of the sun soul, mage armor, Cat's Grace)

Hit Points 476 (Maximum Every Level)

Spells

Level 0: Cure Minor Wounds, Daze, Flare, Light, Resistance

Level 1: Balgarn's Iron Horn, Expeditious Retreat, Grease, Mage Armor, Protection from Alignment

Level 2: Darkness, See Invisibility, Silence, Ultravision

Level 3: Greater Magic Weapon, Haste, Keen Edge, Wounding Whispers

Level 4: Dismissal, Dominate Person, Improved Invisibility, War Cry

Level 5: Ethereal Visage, Greater Dispelling, Healing Circle, Mind Fog

Level 6: Dirge, Energy Buffer
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.

Edited By Mithdradates on 06/08/04 07:59

Well almost done the Hordes campaign with this build. It's quite an easy walk with the character, in some ways a little too easy. It's strong from lvl 15. The whole campaign so far has been more hack'n'slash. Theres no real need to buff and I found myself play a diablo like style of play which was kinda fun after doing the Shadows expansion with a rogue.

I just did the fight with Grim, Mag etc in Chapter 3, didn't know it was coming (first time through), walked into the room unbuffed, half health. Used one heal potion, one mob went down to DC. Deekin and Albeith had almost killed the minotaur by themselves but I had to finish that too.

Fun FUn Fun I dunno where the True Strike spell came from..
Quote: Posted 10/06/04 06:26:56 (GMT) -- Johansmu

I dunno where the True Strike spell came from..

UMD provided you have the scroll
And i have no idea if 1.64 changed it at all but.. is +20 still the maximum magical buff limit? if it is than then +5 sword and +20 from True strike showing on your char sheet is only a +20 in the actual rolls..
Quote: Posted 10/20/04 23:07:13 (GMT) -- Tilbono

provided you have the scroll
And i have no idea if 1.64 changed it at all but.. is +20 still the maximum magical buff limit? if it is than then +5 sword and +20 from True strike showing on your char sheet is only a +20 in the actual rolls..

Yup, +20 is still the limit, but strength bonuses are not counted toward that limit. So, a +12 to STR and True strike is good for a +26 to your base AB, (45+26=71 in this case). Throw in a curse song and a taunt on your opponent (which could potentially lower his AC by 11 points) and that's equivalent to an 82 AB. Anyway, the best way to cast true strike is to hire a mage to make a wand of it for you .
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do. Alright, I play on PvP servers, and I've been looking for a decent Bard build that could be both offensive and a good support character. However, I despise Devestating Critical, to the point of not wanting to take it (which is a huge hinderance, considering others take it and slaughter me anyway).

Anyway, the point of this is...would it be possible to switch this build up from a Strength-based character to a Dex-based? Switch to Robes, still use a greatsword, that way you could also cast spells without hinderance, as well as having greater AC (I would think?). Since I don't want Devestating Crit, it doesn't bother me that I wouldn't have it anymore, but I suppose perhaps the strength damage bonus would hurt a bit.

Any idea if the build would be completely ruined by doing something like that?
Quote: Posted 06/23/05 05:17:27 (GMT) -- Premax
Anyway, the point of this is...would it be possible to switch this build up from a Strength-based character to a Dex-based? Switch to Robes, still use a greatsword, that way you could also cast spells without hinderance, as well as having greater AC (I would think?).

If you switched the base 16 STR and 10 DEX to 16 DEX and 10 STR, put all of your attribute bonuses and the two great attribute feats to dexterity you would end up with a 28 DEX, so your AC would be the same as it is now (though higher with buffs). Your AB and damage would be horrible with a greatsword, you would be better using a weapon you could finesse. Even then, your AB would be lower, than this build. In general, you can't turn a STR build into a DEX build. They are two different characters.

Quote: 
Any idea if the build would be completely ruined by doing something like that?

Pretty much, yeah. Based on what you want, you might prefer a build like this or this.
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do. Wow, what was I thinking, of course you wouldn't still use a greatsword. -_- Brain fart, sorry about that.

Thank you for the information, I'll check out the supplied links.