The original version can be found here. Master of Melee
Since devastating critical is banned on many servers, I thought I would make a STR based fighter that was specifically designed for these cases. I went back to my Master of Melee build and optimized it for these conditions, yielding the following results. I dropped the CoT levels for 2 bard levels and some fighter levels. Since the build no longer needed a fortitude save in the high 30s to have a chance against devastating critical, I felt the CoT levels were superfluous, and the bard levels gave the build tumble, taunt, spellcraft and UMD as class skills. I also switched some combat feats, to give the build some increased staying power.
I tested the end result and it did well, it had some trouble with a dracolich and a prismatic dragon, because of the fear aura, but it did well against most other opponents, including opponents with devastating critical.
Advantages
-High AB -Weapon with a X5 critical multiplier. -9 points of damage reduction. Should take the edge off of missile attacks, and the damage from DEX based fighters. -UMD. He can cast spells from scrolls. -Over 600 hitpoints. -Good AC for an armor wearer.
Disadvantages
-Low will saves vs. spells. This character will be vulnerable to mind spells. -Low saves. His fortitude and reflex saves vs. spells are okay, but without the spellcraft bonus they could be better. -No evasion or spell immunity. He should make his saves against damage spells but he'll still take damage.
Master of Melee V. 2
Race Human
Alignment Any non lawful
Base Attributes STR 16 DEX 14 CON 15 WIS 8 INT 14 CHA 8
AC 29 (no buffs, normal full plate) 53 (haste, +5 full plate, +5 amulet of natural armor, +5 ring of protection, +5 boots of the sun soul)
Hit Points 632 (Max. every level) _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Edited By griphook on 05/31/05 19:10
Anyway to get a even higher AB?
Quote: Posted 07/08/04 04:02:01 (GMT) -- vodreaux
Anyway to get a even higher AB?
Tis called 29 lvls of AA
I prefer a 12ftr/25wm/3rog
With that you can get tumble, umd, epic spec, and evasion.
When i make a wm build, i really try to focus on adding to str, rather con so i can get the best possible ab. if you take 10 ftr//10wm by 20 you will have more bab than if you take rog before 20. This build has around +60-61 ab with a +5 weapon(that he is trained with) and maxed out str.
Quote: Posted 07/08/04 21:21:18 (GMT) -- Dizzy-D
I prefer a 12ftr/25wm/3rog
With that you can get tumble, umd, epic spec, and evasion.
When i make a wm build, i really try to focus on adding to str, rather con so i can get the best possible ab. if you take 10 ftr//10wm by 20 you will have more bab than if you take rog before 20. This build has around +60-61 ab with a +5 weapon(that he is trained with) and maxed out str.
I considered rogue instead of bard, and it came down to spellcraft and taunt vs. evasion. This character's reflex saves weren't high enough to make evasion useful. He would fail more saves than he would make, so while he would take zero damage some of the time, I felt it would be better or equivalent to have the full spellcraft so he would make his saves more often and take half damage more often.
Taunt is an underestimated skill, on a successful taunt he can lower an opponent's AC by 6 points, which would be equivalent to an effective 53 AB (the highest a human weapon master can get). I went for the CON increases first because, at low levels, high hitpoints will be more beneficial to your survival than a high AB, besides even a strength biased build will only have a 2 or 3 point higher AB at level 20 and an extra 100 hitpoints will probably be more useful. I've made several high strength weapon masters and they typically only hitpoints in the mid 400s at level 40 (look up the enforcer and heartseeker in my list of builds). They are great at dishing out damage, but not so good at taking it. If you pitted this character against a pure high strength weapon master he would probably win. The 9 points of damage reduction and extra hitpoints will probably let him edge out his opponent in a blow trading comeptition.
The HP and damage reduction also helps against multiple attackers. I tested this character against 4 level 20 rogue/shadowdancers a level 40 rogue/fighter/shadowdancer and a level 40 rogue/monk/shadowdancer in simultaneous combat (the latter is completely immune to magic as a test for mages, the level 20s respawn 10 seconds after they are defeated and they all have +5 equipment). I expect most of my characters to die 2 to 3 times in that encounter (just too many sneak attacks to deal with at once) this character went under once, so he's pretty durable.
I don't see this character as a one man army, but he'll fill the tank roll very well in a group of a tank, a caster and a sneaker. Heck, with his con boosted a mage may run out of maximized IGMS before he goes down and give him a potion or two of heal and that cheap tactic is almost guarranteed to fail. I might even write an autolevelup package for this character. Personally I feel he would make a great henchman, as the AI does a pretty good job with fighter builds. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
I am on a server which denies the Damage Reduction Selection!
AB is extremely important. Server will provide the armor with reasonable resit and damage reduction. Some mobs will not receive any damage with ab around 60s, you need at least 70.
You can level from 1-40 easy but after that monster can own you quick.
Edited By vodreaux on 07/11/04 14:46
Well, with +20 weapons and +12 to STR (which I assume are available from the ACs you're talking about) this character has an AB of 73. If you can get armor with damage reduction though, this character may not do well on that particular server. You could sub the damage reduction, con increases and great cons for great strengths and strength bonuses which will increase the AB significantly (at the cost of HP). You might find my irksome wonder and enforcer builds more to your liking though. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
i really would like to see a lvl 30 version of this build. would it be still effective enough? (sry for digging out this thread but im in desperate need of some good builds )
off topic; what is an autolevelup package?
Quote: Posted 07/11/04 14:25:46 (GMT) -- vodreaux
I am on a server which denies the Damage Reduction Selection!
So what? That's your problem, not this build's.
I'm with Mithridates - IMO even without Taunt, 40 levels of Spellcraft = +8 or more (unlike Tumble it's the adjusted score that counts) in saves versus ALL spells is more useful than evasion. Period. In a non-dex build it's a no brainer.
A slight variant, take 2 points off somewhere. Add +2 to int. Make it dwarf. Gets, +4AC versus giants and +4 spell saves.
Quote: Posted 11/10/04 14:43:10 (GMT) -- Khandahr
off topic; what is an autolevelup package?
Autolevelup Package is what you see in the character creation. You see the list of the "packages" for each classes, such as Fighter, Weapon Master(Katana). That package would select the approriate feats so you can level up in Weapon Master class soon as possible. Another example, Paladin, Champion of Torm.
Basically, it is guideline for your recommend button. Every time you press recommend button, it will go through the list of the feats, skills and so on. It will select the next feat(s) on the list if you have feat selected in the list before the next one. Same with the skills, it will take the points and put them into the priority skills, the top three I think. Then it will put any extra points into the next priority skills, for example; fighter, they would select Discipline, Parry and Taunt. Then it would select Hide, Listen, and Search in that order.
Stop me if I am wrong about this...
Anuis _________________ - Epic Character Builders Guild
- Life is but a dream...
- I know more than I am letting on...
-I think, Therefore I am.
What is the benefit of so many levels of fighter vs more levels of WM? Wouldnt more levels of WM add to the AB of the weapon of choice more than extra fighter levels? (just trying to learn here as I am fairly new.)
You are correct about the ab, if he went to 25 he would get 1 more ab then stopping at 22. However, this would leave uneven fighter levels. You want even fighter levels, as every 2nd fighter level you get a bonus feat. At least I believe this is why he went that route. Basicaly, if he went to 25th level WM, he would get 1 bonus feat from WM. But if he put those 3 levels into fighter, he gets 2 bonus feats. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
Thanks for the fast response, I thought it was for the feats. I guess its just a question of whether the feats or the ab are more important in this case, and quite a few feats are better than 1 ab =)
can this build take on the Undead Lord or Kukri master or Puff the Magic Dragon or the undead scythe master builds?
Quote: Posted 12/07/04 05:20:25 (GMT) -- vaeku
can this build take on the Undead Lord or Kukri master or Puff the Magic Dragon or the undead scythe master builds?
On a world where devastating critical is banned, then most melee builds will wipe the floor with the Kukri master.
Depending on the player and equipment he has, he has a shot against the Undead Lord. The Undead Lord has low spell DCs so a scroll of Mordenkainen's Disjunction has a chance of working, if the Master of Melee can get his knockdown attack going he should be able to defeat that build. Of course the problem is, he has to get close enough to melee.
The undead scythe master builds can take alot of damage, but the Master of Melee has a much higher AB and should be able to keep them out of the fight with knockdown attacks (I can't remember if they can be disarmed). As equipment improves the shifter forms get weaker compared to their non-shifter counterparts, so equipment will make a difference.
Puff, as a mage, should have no problem taking down this build. Then again the exalted sorceress or another pure caster would tear Puff limb from limb.
Again, this character was designed for settings where Devastating Critical is banned as a fighter type character. I was thinking along the lines of a character that would make a good henchman. If you took all of the builds you mentioned and let the AI control them and pitted them against this character under AI control, this character would probably take them all down together. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
This build i must agree is one of the best if not the best pure melee i have one in the PW i play on, the only 2 melee builds i have ever had a problem with using this char is hybrid bard/RDD/PM (melee only) with immune to crits it takes awhile, and worst one to come against is bard or wiz/PM/DD with both immune crits and DR you need to get a book to read while you are dueling (ab on this PM/DD build is poor so you hardly get hit but it takes awhile) all in all highly recommend this build for pure melee.
for maximum AB, 11FTR/28WM/1HS. take halfling as a race and max dex. take all 7 great dex feats epic and then use the 1 HS lvl to gain the last great dex feat for a whopping 8 great dex feats. with a +20 weapon and +12 to dex, you get the amazing ab of........81! 82 im not sure
for maximum AB, 11FTR/28WM/1HS. take halfling as a race and max dex. take all 7 great dex feats epic and then use the 1 HS lvl to gain the last great dex feat for a whopping 8 great dex feats. with a +20 weapon and +12 to dex, you get the amazing ab of........81! 82 im not sure
Not sure what point you're trying to make, but yes the highest melee AB for dex based is 82. 30 BAB +14 (38 DEX) +1 Superior Weapon Focus +6 Epic Superior Weapon Focus +1 Epic Prowess +1 Weapon Focus +2 Epic Weapon Focus +1 Small Stature +6 +12 DEX +20 max enhancement bonus Total 82 Of course this is a horrible character. To get the 20 dex you had to spend 16 character points!! Your other stats are going to be pathetic. You're not going to be able to get the good high dexterity feats like epic dodge and self concealment. Of your 13 pre-epic feats you had to spend 6 to get your Weapon Master pre-requisites. You also took weapon finnesse leaving you with 6 feats (pre-epic) to spend as you would like and 4 (you had to use 2 for epic weapon focus and epic prowess) weapon master bonus feats (epic). Hopefully you'll never come across a build that has any damage reduction, as you'll probably never be able to damage it.
If you want to go the max AB route you are better off maxing your STR with a Half-Orc Fighter 12/WeaponMaster 28. You could also swap some of the Fighter Levels for CoT to pick some save boosts. 30 BAB +13 (36 STR) +1 Superior Weapon Focus +6 Epic Superior Weapon Focus +1 Epic Prowess +1 Weapon Focus +2 Epic Weapon Focus +6 +12 STR +20 max. enhancement bonus Total 80 To do this build, you only had to spend 13 attribute points to get a 19 STR, so you have 3 more stat points to play with. When you hit something, it's going to feel it. You could also pick up devastating critical using your Weapon master bonus feats if you wanted to. And you could get epic weapon specialization. This build is still not very good however as its CON isn't very high, so it doesn't have much staying power, although it is a vast improvement over the dex build.
In the end, the Master of Melee's 73 AB is pretty good, yeah it's not good as 80 or 82 but it is better than what most characters can manage. And on a successful taunt he lower an opponents AC by 6 points, giving him an effective 79 AB which compares very nicely. He has 9 points of damage reduction and over 600 HP so he can take a fair bit of damage. He has a good skill set and with UMD he can use magic if needs to, all things considered a well balanced fighter. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
What would happen if you used a Bastard Sword instead of a Scythe would it hurt this build any?
If I were to go for a one handed weapon, I would go for the Dwarven War Axe with its x3 (x4 for a weapon master) critical hit multiplier. You can go for a bastard sword but your critical hits won't be as effective as they are with the scythe (but you would crit. more often). _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Personally, I would like to say kudos to Mithdradates for creating a melee character without focusing on devastatic critical. I really dislike the feat myself, and it is nice to see a classic, back-to-the-basics standard fighter. I for one would love to see more people running around with this character then those pesky kukri masters!!!
My only question is why the 14 Dexterity? I assume the build uses full plate. I also know that you need 13 dexterity for spring attack, so I get that. But, if you never are going to use the extra dex, why not put it somewhere else, like charisma. At least then you'd be pretty (er)!
Quote: Posted 02/20/05 20:14:21 (GMT) -- Aligory
My only question is why the 14 Dexterity? I assume the build uses full plate. I also know that you need 13 dexterity for spring attack, so I get that. But, if you never are going to use the extra dex, why not put it somewhere else, like charisma. At least then you'd be pretty (er)!
The 14 dex gives you a +2 to your reflex saves, while a 13 dex and 9 charisma would only give you a +1 to your reflex saves. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
D'oh!
I prefer a 12ftr/25wm/3rog
