Playable from level 1 - 40 ..PvM Build

The Out'rage'ous Sneak. This gal is built for sneak attack and being incredibly hard to hit. She also has a backup plan for sneak/crit immune critters with the Barb levels allowing 2 rages per day to up her damage potential and add some HPs. She just switches to a decent bludgeoning weapon and shiled and goes into her rage.

Race: Human
Alignment: any non-Lawful

STR 12
DEX 18
CON 14
WIS 10
INT 10
CHA 8

All ability increases to DEX. Skills I took were: Disable Trap, Hide, Lore, Move Silently, Open Lock, Set Trap, Spellcraft, Tumble, and UMD

1: Rogue Dodge/Mobility
2: Barb
3: Barb: Wpn Finesse
4: Barb
5: Barb
6: Rogue Wpn Focus:Short Sword
7: Rogue
8: SD
9: SD Ambidexterity
10: SD
11: SD
12: Rogue Two Weapon Fighting
13: Rogue
14: Rogue
15: Rogue Improved Two Weapon Fighting
16: Rogue
17: Rogue
18: Rogue Improved Critical:Short Sword/Imp. Evasion
19: Rogue
20: Rogue
21: SD GRT DEX I
22: SD
23: SD
24: Rogue GRT DEX II/Epic Dodge
25: Rogue
26: Rogue
27: Rogue GRT DEX III/Crippling Strike
28: Rogue
29: Rogue
30: Rogue GRT DEX IV/Blinding Speed (or Opportunist)
31: Rogue
32: Rogue
33: Rogue SC I
34: Rogue
35: Rogue SC II
36: Rogue SC III
37: Rogue
38: Rogue
39: Rogue SC IV/SC V
40: Rogue

Final Skills unmodified (modified):

Disable Trap: 43 (43)
Hide: 43 (54)
Lore: 43 (43)
Move Silently: 43 (54)
Open Lock: 21 (32)
Set Trap: 43 (54)
Spellcraft: 20 (20)
Tumble: 40 (51)
UMD: 41 (40)

Naked AC is 29
Sneak Attack = 15d6
Attack bonus: +37 (+36 when dual-wielding)

Fort: 21
Refl: 34
Will: 16

Max HPs: 358

Spellcraft is useful to bolster the saves by +4 vs spells, especially the pitiful WILL save - which is the biggest weak point in the build. The character should keep a good supply of Clarity potions and seek out anything that boosts the WILL save.

I know a lot of people would recommend FTR instead of Barbarian, but I have several reasons for not taking FTR:

1) I like the little boost of speed from the Barb - this could get you out of trouble a little easier in lower levels.

2) Rage 2x per day will adequately boost the damage output when sneak attacks are not an option.

3) Barbarian gets more skill points than the FTR.

4) Barbarian gives a few more HPs (no big deal, but a small bonus)

5) I wanted to try something a little different, so I nuked FTR in favor of Barb. Barb gives you the weapon proficiencies of the FTR, plus shields - no heavy armor, but the build doesn't require that anyway.

With SC V and Epic Dodge, this character is extremely hard to hit, so the lower HPs are not too big a concern. SD levels give you a (very weak) summon, but it could allow an extra couple of sneak attacks, which might make all the difference.

Anyway, that's it. Comments?
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

Edited By griphook on 06/06/05 20:55

Cool build. I have been playing with my barb/roge lately as well. It's the 'Master of Scare Tactics' build. It varies slightly from yours in that it's more barbarian using terrifying rage in conjunction with sneak attacks, but it has the saem weaknesses you pointed out. What rogue feats are you taking? Slippery mind helps with those weak will saves that you pointed out too.
Quote: Posted 08/06/04 19:48:56 (GMT) -- Emrill

Cool build. I have been playing with my barb/roge lately as well. It's the 'Master of Scare Tactics' build. It varies slightly from yours in that it's more barbarian using terrifying rage in conjunction with sneak attacks, but it has the saem weaknesses you pointed out. What rogue feats are you taking? Slippery mind helps with those weak will saves that you pointed out too.

The Rogue Bonus feats I took are: Imp Evasion, Crippling Strike, Blinding Speed (you could opt for Opportunist), and Epic Dodge (that and BS show up in epic levels)

SD gives you Defensive Roll at level 5 and Slippery Mind at level 7. (You'd get Imp Evasion at level 10, but I figured why burn 3 levels for that when I get it as a bonus feat anyway - plus, 3 levels means 2d6 less sneak attack)
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" For what its worth I like it.

I think id be right at home with this build.

Syrath
Quote: Posted 08/06/04 22:53:10 (GMT) -- syrath1001

For what its worth I like it.

I think id be right at home with this build.

Syrath

Thanks, and yeah, I think you and I both like the SC/Epic Dodge builds with a little SD thrown in for flavour...
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" That makes three of us that like those style builds. Cool build. Out of curiousity, why are you dualwielding shortswords instead of daggers? For the damage?
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"What do you fear most in the world?"
"The possibility that love is not enough."
-- Major Garland Briggs, Twin Peaks
Quote: Posted 08/07/04 15:39:06 (GMT) -- kreestopearq

Cool build. Out of curiousity, why are you dualwielding shortswords instead of daggers? For the damage?

Partly the damage, even though it's only on average 1 point more. But I just like the look of dual-wielded short swords. Daggers would be cool though.
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" Shortswords do more damage , up to 4 more , and when a dex buld comes up against DR , then you need as much as you can get.

I also think it looks better. I always imagine them as more like 2 short curved swords/sabers that you can strap to your back in an x type shape and draw them over your shoulder.

In fact if you look at the icon (you can see it in the manual in your docs folder) for shadowdancer you can actually see something similar being used.(page 21 hotu manual)

Syrath I like the build, I tihnk I might use it. One thing, why not use Kukri's? Bump Kukri's would be nice, if they didn't have a lesser dmg output. I believe kukri's are exotic which would take an extra feat, perhaps that's why he chose not to use them. heh i tried this build out earlier.. well, most of it i took all the feats , but got rid of the SC feats, and the race was halfling.. starting stats the same except instead of 10 intellegence you have 14... instead of 4 barb and 7 SD i took 8 fighter and 1 SD, using the extra feats to get armor skin to compensate, as well as epic weapon prof kukri, imp crit short and kukri, same with epic weapon focus in each and weapon specialization in short sword.. to dual weild as a halfling proficiently you need a small and tiny so thats why i took kukri in there. Where did you take epic dodge ?

Syrath In the testing you took feats for both shortswords nad Kukris
Quote: Posted 08/19/04 15:30:24 (GMT) -- who_is_daniel

In the testing you took feats for both shortswords nad Kukris
???
Where do you see anything with kukris on hsi build? There weren’t any Kukri’s in Cinnabar’s build, it is not an attack on C’s build (I like the build, it sounds cool :shades and fun), I was just curious why he chose short swords. I am curious as to why Tilbono took feats for both Short swords and Kukri’s … that is a lot of extra feats to do both. I am trying to learn more and discuss it with my fellow players.

Edited By who_is_daniel on 08/19/04 16:43

Quote: Posted 08/17/04 07:37:43 (GMT) -- who_is_daniel

I like the build, I tihnk I might use it. One thing, why not use Kukri's?

Sorry for the late reply: I didn't use them because of needing to burn the feat for Exotic, but feel free to go for it if you're comfortable with dropping a feat to get it.
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" That’s fine, I was just curious
Quote: Posted 08/19/04 10:25:02 (GMT) -- Tilbono

heh i tried this build out earlier.. well, most of it i took all the feats , but got rid of the SC feats, and the race was halfling.. starting stats the same except instead of 10 intellegence you have 14... instead of 4 barb and 7 SD i took 8 fighter and 1 SD, using the extra feats to get armor skin to compensate, as well as epic weapon prof kukri, imp crit short and kukri, same with epic weapon focus in each and weapon specialization in short sword.. to dual weild as a halfling proficiently you need a small and tiny so thats why i took kukri in there.

Well, if you went from Human to Halfling and the build was FTR 8/SD 1/Rogue 31 instead of Barb 4/SD 7/Rogue 29, and you dropped the SC feats, and you changed the start stats, and used kukri with short sword - I'd suggest that you didn't try the build at all...

BTW, Armor Skin won't compensate at all for Epic Dodge combined with SC V.
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" Yeah armor skin increases your AC by 2.

SC5 acts as a 50 percent damage reduction .

Epic dodge is most effective in a 1 on 1 situation where at its most effective (with SC5 and high AC) can turn a fight where you get hit once every 5 rounds into a fight where you get hit once every 266 rounds. This is as Im sure you can see a good bit more effective than armor skin.

Syrath I like this build alot (AM A FAN OF THE ROUGISH ARTS) but i think i might take the FTR levels so that i could get some feets that boosts will saving to help counter the week will saves.
Quote: Posted 08/19/04 21:07:22 (GMT) -- XyberKnight

I like this build alot (AM A FAN OF THE ROUGISH ARTS) but i think i might take the FTR levels so that i could get some feets that boosts will saving to help counter the week will saves.

Thanks, and yeah FTR will give you extra feats. This could get you the two-weapon fighting feats easier and also a chance to boost your WILL saves (although Slippery Mind is supposed to help there, I've recently read it's bugged and doesn't work...), plus perhaps a shot at Weap. Spec. and the Epic version. From a power point of view, FTR is probably much more logical, but like I said, I wanted something a bit different.

Enjoy your character!
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" ACtually i did test the build lol, i didnt change the starting stats.. i used the same ones, but with halfling you have an extra 4 stat points to spare (because to get the 18 dex its only +2 for each instead of +3)
I chose kukris AND shortswords simply.. because i can the only difference is a possible extra 2 damage, you could just go pure kukri if you like, i said the armor skin compensates from the lack of +2 ac from the shadowdancer feat, not from lack of SC... depends if the server you got has improved invis scrolls, if not , then take the SC
Quote: Posted 08/20/04 03:54:14 (GMT) -- Tilbono

ACtually i did test the build lol, i didnt change the starting stats.. i used the same ones, but with halfling you have an extra 4 stat points to spare (because to get the 18 dex its only +2 for each instead of +3)
I chose kukris AND shortswords simply.. because i can the only difference is a possible extra 2 damage, you could just go pure kukri if you like, i said the armor skin compensates from the lack of +2 ac from the shadowdancer feat, not from lack of SC... depends if the server you got has improved invis scrolls, if not , then take the SC

Ah. Much clearer now. One thing to keep in mind is that Imp Invis can be dispelled and it has a limited duration, whereas SC can't be and doesn't...

Anyway, good luck with your build!
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"Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just
'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!" I just want to know is this Build Any Good in PvP? I mean Because i heard so much good things about this build and im thinking about trying this bad boy out in a Arena Server... I decided to try this build on a roleplay server. Let me tell you, it went against my usual powergaming tendencies. I ended up restarting the build 3 times. I couldn't decide if I really wanted 18 dex as opposed to 17. I had stats of 14,17,14,8,13,8 which I thought were pretty nice.. but I really wanted to be able to get the epic dodge later.. though on the mod I play getting epic is a... well epic task and I don't like planning for the longrun because realistically one wouldn't do that when they could do what benefits and allows them to survive the present. I also had chosen fighter for the extra feats that were needed very much. I wanted blindfight, toughness, and maybe weap spec... but..

I ended up keeping true to the build because it sounded more interesting to be a rog barbarian. I also went Tiefling and chaotic evil. So I am some crazy evil demon guy. So far the 10% speed boost has saved me several times. It's fun. When I get my sd lvls it will be really fun

I don't expect to dominate like my cleric/rog/ftr does, but thats OK. I'll tell you all how it goes when I get to prolly about 10.. which will take me about a month or longer