Final Stats Str 10 Dex 25 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8
Equipment Longbow Clothing
Overview He is the Hawkeye of any team. He can spot anything from miles around and hit just about any target, anywhere. He is the ultimate archer. No archer can matc his abilities or archery. He has trained all his life for this very moment. He will not fail and he will not miss.
Note: This archer has become a hit in PvP. A lot of people have taking a liking to this build.
Pro - 55 AB and 75 with True Strike - Self Concealment 40% - Can get up to 33/34 AC - Protect against Evil for mind immunities
Con Low HP (358) Bad Will save _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
Edited By TyrPaladin on 08/13/04 00:35
It doesnt make sense with the order you have taken Epic Weapon Focus (+2AB) and epic prowess(+1AB)
Both feats are available at level 29. Yet you choose the lesser of the 2 first.
In fact you choose great dex before you choose either of these even though as a feat it really is only worth half an AB offensively. I would take these first before taking any of the Dex feats.
I also feel that the inclusion of Self concealment into the build is a waste of feats. This is purely my own opinion. Self concealment is a great feat , but 4 feats for 40 percent is a heavy price to pay. I personally feel that Self concealment is only worth it if you plan to couple it with epic dodge. The effect of this against a melee/ranged character is awesome and makes it worth the expenditure of all those feats.
As an example I created a module with a goblin, gave him 6 hp, 90 AC , epic dodge and SC 5. So far I have loosed off 1500 arrows at him on 3 seperate tests and have yet to hit. This is with an AB of 69 with a northwind bow.
With just self concealment V I kill him in the first 40 attacks.
Syrath
p(Chance that you will hit the goblin with at least two attacks when attacks a round=5)= 1-(39/40)^5-2*(1/20*39/40^4)= 0,028535517578125.
1500 arrows? Your test must have been faulty.
No it's because blind fight doesn't help with ranged attacks, and with a 90 AC he needs 20s to hit. IT is basically a target dummy set up to test concealment.
It doesnt make...
Good for you go make your own build stop bothering to remake the build the way you wnt.
In fact you choose great dex before you choose either of these even though as a feat it really is only worth half an AB offensively.
So SC at lvl 30 which I've said thousand times.
I also feel that the inclusion of Self concealment into the build is a waste of feats.
Good for you, many people who have PM me say your wrong...But your probably know more than me and those people so there is no reason to argue to point.
Your right and I'm wrong, who cares.
As an example I created a module with a goblin, gave him 6 hp, 90 AC , epic dodge and SC 5. So far I have loosed off 1500 arrows at him on 3 seperate tests and have yet to hit. This is with an AB of 69 with a northwind bow.
Use True Strike, secondly, they aren't many creatures except the Primastic Dragon so bothering me with stupid analogies, you are pull out of your butt. No player or creature can get 90 AC unless I'm in a uber pvp or the Dm is dumb enough to make such a creature.
Thank you and good night. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
I accept what you say about the Great DEX(SC prereq) but if you take epic weapon focus first you still have +2 AB from level 29, instead of +1 AB. This is to the benefit of your build between levels 29 and 33 at no extra cost. This would benefit anyone playing your build. As for the self concealment I did state that it was my opinion and I will restate its still a good choice since AA has a really offence it doesnt hurt to lower this a little to gain greater defence.
Why do you always presume that a criticique is a personal attack. I stated that the SC thing was my own opinion and the other critique even you cant find fault with since it gives you a free +1AB between level 29 and 33.
Syrath
Emril BTW I also tested melee against it, as long as the attacks remain at 4 it seems impossible to hit, 5 attacks very rare to hit, 6 attacks seems to kill it off in less than 3 minutes. Remember though it only has 6 hp one hit kills it.
As an example I created a module with a goblin, gave him 6 hp, 90 AC , epic dodge and SC 5. So far I have loosed off 1500 arrows at him on 3 seperate tests and have yet to hit. This is with an AB of 69 with a northwind bow.
Use True Strike, secondly, they aren't many creatures except the Primastic Dragon so bothering me with stupid analogies, you are pull out of your butt. No player or creature can get 90 AC unless I'm in a uber pvp or the Dm is dumb enough to make such a creature.
Thank you and good night.
I think you missed the point he was trying to make. The reason for the 90 AC was not for anything other than to make sure you needed a 20 to hit. So, this being an analogy, he was illustrating what would happen in any scenario where your opponent needed a 20 to hit you.(Even with TS, you'd still need a 20.) He wasn't saying you'd meet with opponents with 90 AC.
The reason for the example was to illustrate his opinion that SC is really only worth striving for if you're going to couple it with Epic Dodge. In his test the ED plus SC V goblin couldn't be hit in 1500+ tries, while the goblin with only SC V was taken out within 40 attacks.
It's just an expense thing. Too expensive to go for the limited benefit of SC unless you want to go all out for ED and SC V. But it's just an opinion... _________________ "Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
I think you missed the point he was trying to make.
It's stupid a point because I'm not going to meet a creature with that AC or abilities. Nor does it reflect my character.
while the goblin with only SC V was taken out within 40 attacks.
I'm not going to stand in one spot for a guy to pull of 4 attacks for the next 10 rounds. I got an 30% extra to my running speed while everything else in the game has 100%. I'm going to avoid when I can. I also Blinding Speed and Hide/Move Silently. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
It's stupid a point because I'm not meet a creature with that AC or abilities.
I'm sorry, I don't understand the statement.
*edit* Never mind - the statement was incomplete when I was responding... Now I see. But what the point was trying to illustrate was if you were in the goblin's position and had SC V and ED, or not - and your opponent needed a 20 to hit you (You'd basically be unhittable). However with only the SC feats, you'd be quite hittable, so they're not worth the expense.
Quote: I'm not going to stand in one spot for a guy to pull of 4 attacks for the next 10 rounds. I got an 30% to my running speed while everything else in the game has 100%. I'm going to avoid when I can. I also Blinding Speed and Hide/Move Silently.
Which is why you don't need the SC IV - you could use those feats for something else. But it's just a suggestion, that's all. Nobody said it's a bad build as it is. It's just a suggestion... _________________ "Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!"
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 08/13/04 23:07
Which is why you don't need the SC IV - you could use those feats for something else. But it's just a suggestion, that's all. Nobody said it's a bad build as it is. It's just a suggestion...
Great Wisdom or Dexterity - Nope, I may get more AC, but I'm still hittable.
Great Constitution or Epic Dodge - Nope, not meant to be tank. 400 HP would be the max if I did. Wishful thinking but no.
Armor Skin - Didn't I already get this?
Called Shot - I would get rid of Rapid Shot if I really want this feat. CS is better than Rapid Shot for many reasons especially when using an archer build. Why screw up my epic levels bonus for this? The only beef I have with this is that most fighters-types have high Str and discipline score making Called Shot extremely difficult to land and it mages don't really run or Fight. That's what makes it useless.
Improve & Superior Initiative - Nope because my Initiative is already a 1d20+10 alone.
Overwhemling & Devastating Critical - Once these feats become available to players with archers, SC and Epic will become almost irrevelant.
Improve/Expertise - Fawking waste of time. Prolong a battle for 10 extra AC and - 10 AB? I will go up to 35 to 40 AC, which isn't worth it against guys who can swinf for +40 AB and up.
Great/Spell Focus & Save boosting feats - Same as raising my HP points. Wishful thinking, but not worth it in the long run.
Self-Concealment is the best thing because I don't get any other type of defensive except that. I thought this build out before building it. The archer that can land both ED and SC 50% is the Rogue Archer build, if you switch out the extra improve Sneak Attacks. Use my Puck build as a referrence. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
Edited By TyrPaladin on 08/13/04 23:30
Quote: Posted 08/13/04 23:03:52 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din Which is why you don't need the SC IV - you could use those feats for something else. But it's just a suggestion, that's all. Nobody said it's a bad build as it is. It's just a suggestion...
The SC IV comment was how I would play it, I never said it was wrong (it still stops 40 percent of attacks coming in regardless of how much less effective without epic dodge). Its very effective when you are fighting against other archers since blind fight doesnt affect it.
Tyrpaladin as for the example with the test goblin, the reason I carry out these tests is to see how effective these feats are when the builds I make take them. I want to know how much damage I avoid by taking each and every feat. I would not expect any player to come up against a 90 AC SC 5, ED goblin. I would expect a player to have these stats, and I would expect a monster attacking me to have an even harder time if I took the same feats. Imagine going up one on one against a 4 attack per round boss mob when you know you are going to be hit so rare that you wont have to worry about it for 10-20 minutes before 1 hit lands. This is providing you can counter its spells, (easy enough with silence spell, cast it on yourself and go into combat)
My main point was about the epic weapon focus/Epic prowess. This is a free level 29-33 upgrade. Im just trying to point out a free improvement.
Syrath
EDIT btw bard8/SD16/AA16 can get Epic dodge and SC 5. It sacrifices a fair amount of offense, to get a huge amount of defense.
Edited By syrath1001 on 08/13/04 23:45
Then go make your own build. You have the levels you want, go make it. Not trying to sound spiteful, but your playing style and build. Make it. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
I already have made an bard/SD/AA with epic dodge and SC5.
As for making your build by just changing round 2 feats and taking away SC 4. That would be just making your build changing 2 feats and taking away SC4. Not exactly a challenge for me, nor would I want to. I like the look of the build, its got speed, avoidance, offense rolled into one. Looks to be the perfect kiter.
I still say you should change round the 2 feats next time you post it since it improves the build at no cost.
Does it actually cost you anything to say "good point, ill change that, but I disagree with you on the SC 4 since I have found it to be useful when coming up against melee fighters and helps to keep the damage down" . Which is pretty much what other people would do.
Syrath
Quote: Posted 08/13/04 20:40:36 (GMT) -- TyrPaladin Use True Strike, secondly, they aren't many creatures except the Primastic Dragon so bothering me with stupid analogies, you are pull out of your butt. No player or creature can get 90 AC unless I'm in a uber pvp or the Dm is dumb enough to make such a creature.
Thank you and good night.
Using trues strike btw you would still be lucky if you got one hit in , how many trues strikes would you need to kill a pc. Maybe around 20, how many level 1 slots do you have. Also how long does it take to go through all of those true strikes.
As for AC 90 this was chosen since its effectively an AC beyond the reach of most monsters/npcs.At the end of hotu I can finish with an AC of 75. 85 with improved expertise. This makes the point very valid for pvm especiially when you are fighting single boss mobs.
PVP , one on one combat with a melee/ranged build this becomes particularly relevant. Since even if your first strike can hit(exactly) on a 2 and you have 4 attacks per round, your damage will still be reduced by over 70 percent. Im sure you will agree this is a significant figure.
Syrath
Syrath, it's pointless to agrue some simple reassignent of feats to get a bit more out of the build as well as makeing it more playable from 1-40 and not just at level 40. We've all tried many times to help Tyr improve her builds, but I guess she misses the point of posting builds here. She doesn't seem to want to take what she thinks as finished and improve it. You point out valid examples of how effective a feat would be, but it doesn't matter. She probably doesn't want to work on the build anymore, but rather spew out another that will need a lot of work. You tried to help. Some people are just very unresceptive. It's to bad too, because her ultimate archer is one of her better builds. It could be better still though.
Quote: Posted 08/14/04 11:58:47 (GMT) -- Emrill
Syrath, it's pointless to agrue some simple reassignent of feats to get a bit more out of the build as well as makeing it more playable from 1-40 and not just at level 40. We've all tried many times to help Tyr improve her builds, but I guess she misses the point of posting builds here. She doesn't seem to want to take what she thinks as finished and improve it. You point out valid examples of how effective a feat would be, but it doesn't matter. She probably doesn't want to work on the build anymore, but rather spew out another that will need a lot of work. You tried to help. Some people are just very unresceptive. It's to bad too, because her ultimate archer is one of her better builds. It could be better still though.
If you don't have anything of importance to say, if you have any advice to improve my build then shut up and leave the topic. Don't me ask to change something for your gameplay, change it for yourself. We all play differently here.
Now with Jay not accepting epic builds, I'll chill for a while. I can see this place isn't going to get updated too much. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
(quote)Posted 08/14/04 14:21:28 (GMT) -- TyrPaladin
If you don't have anything of importance to say, if you have any advice to improve my build then shut up and leave the topic. Don't me ask to change something for your gameplay, change it for yourself. We all play differently here.quote] That's just it. Syrath is offering advice to improve your build, as do many others here, yet you don't do anything with that advice. Therefor why do you make a statement saying if I don't offer any advice, I shouldn't post. You already are double talking here by saying if you don't offer advice, don't post. Yet when advice is offered you tell them off saying to go play their own version instead. Syrath isn't trying to radically alter your build. Believe it or not he was trying to be helpful. Making a few changes like he said and reposting it, doesn't construe him making a new build either. He is trying to improve YOUR build.
Emrill , just leave it, im fed up to the back teeth with it.
Its obvious we are dealing with someone who does not live life by ordinary peoples values. I was pm'd by Tyrpaladin last night to do a test on pickpocketing. I did this spending 30 minutes of my time to do something that if Tyrpaladin was as good as she says she is she could have done herself.
I reported back with the test result, got no thanks at all for doing it but did get a useless message saying "damn they fixed that exploit" and was asked why I didnt play Tyrpaladins other builds.
I replied starting with the line "Dont pretend we are friends" since the enmity between the 2 of us I think has reached almost legendary proportions.
To which I get insults and profanity back in my pms. I should have just told Tyrpaladin to go stuff it when i got asked to help out.
Syrath
Very well. I couldn't agree more.
Quote: Posted 08/14/04 15:44:31 (GMT) -- Emrill He is trying to improve YOUR build.
He didn't offer anything. Do any you see ideas for knews feats? He didn't offered a damn thing, not a feat, not a tactic. Don't come in topics anymore, if you don't have any better ideas for improvement. All you do is fawk my builds up with your consistant arguments over minor mistakes or something over looked. Stop making to 2 to 4 of stupid bickering and smartass remarks if you have nothing to productive to say. Now I have to go to work. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
Edited By TyrPaladin on 08/14/04 17:23
I offered nothing you say .
I offered a free +1 bonus to your AB between levels 29 and 33. Guess what all I did was to switch 2 feats round. Feats you chose yourself.
You have this (x is your current AB) Level 29 Epic Prowess AB=x+1 Level 30 AB=x+1 Level 31 guess what AB =x+1 Level 32 Epic Weapon Focus AB=x+3
I proposed this change Level 29 Epic Weapon Focus AB =x+2 Level 30 AB=x+2 Level 31 AB=x+2 Level 32 Epic Prowess AB=x+3
Notice that for no loss my change has given you 1 extra AB for level 29 , level 30 and level 31. Granted this isnt a big bonus. It is however a simple improvement that is easy to implement. Why shouldnt you have X+2 AB at levels 29 30 and 31 you want to have every benefit you can get.
So where has it offered nothing.
My point and your point on Self concealment are both valid and its a matter of taste which you decide. I will even concede not taking it might leave you in a worse situation.
You cannot however say I offered nothing by switching the 2 feats round. Read the figures above , it speaks for itself.
As for tactics, its your build play it whatever way you like. As for anyone else wanting to play it can you seriously say they are going to turn round and say Tyrpaladin has a point Ill take epic prowess before Epic weapon focus and live with 1 less AB for 3 levels. Only you could see sense in that.
Syrath
TyrPaladin you need to chill out. Take some anti-anger pills or something. I agree with Syrath that by just switching 2 feats you get an improved bab at those lvls.
If you don't want your builds critiqued or most likely improved upon then stop posting them.
TyrPaladin you need to chill out. Take some anti-anger pills or something. I agree with Syrath that by just switching 2 feats you get an improved bab at those lvls.
Go back to the first page, you'll his arguement was about SC, which he couldn't improve on. So finds something else to argue about. He and Emrill do the same thing my other topics.
Syrath101: Seeing that my feat arrangement bothers you (Desire effect), I will keep it as it is. _________________ Which Stick are you? Click Here
Edited By TyrPaladin on 08/14/04 19:25
Quote: Go back to the first, you'll his only was about SC, which he couldn't improve on.
Lets have a close look at the 2nd post of this thread and my first post.
It doesnt make sense with the order you have taken Epic Weapon Focus (+2AB) and epic prowess(+1AB)
Both feats are available at level 29. Yet you choose the lesser of the 2 first.
This isnt about SC is it. So stop talking complete rubbish.
Quote: In fact you choose great dex before you choose either of these even though as a feat it really is only worth half an AB offensively. I would take these first before taking any of the Dex feats.
Here I am wrong and I admit it in a later post since you need it for Self Concealment.
Quote: I also feel that the inclusion of Self concealment into the build is a waste of feats. This is purely my own opinion. Self concealment is a great feat , but 4 feats for 40 percent is a heavy price to pay. I personally feel that Self concealment is only worth it if you plan to couple it with epic dodge. The effect of this against a melee/ranged character is awesome and makes it worth the expenditure of all those feats.
They key sentence of this paragraph here is "this is purely my own opinion."
Quote: As an example I created a module with a goblin, gave him 6 hp, 90 AC , epic dodge and SC 5. So far I have loosed off 1500 arrows at him on 3 seperate tests and have yet to hit. This is with an AB of 69 with a northwind bow.
With just self concealment V I kill him in the first 40 attacks.
Syrath
Here I just expand upon my argument that Self Concealment means a whole lot more if it is coupled with epic dodge and high AC. This last part is just my opinion.
The switching of feats is something anyone logical would do to improve the build if they noticed it. I just pointed it out so other people dont make the same mistake.
If you wish to keep it as is , feel free but I know and everyone else realises that if you switch the feats around it makes an improvement to your build at absolutely no cost whatsoever.
How Epic is your build when you dont even want to improve upon it.
Go back to the first page, you'll his arguement was about SC, which he couldn't improve on. So finds something else to argue about. He and Emrill do the same thing my other topics.(quote) Pointing out you took a feat to early is bad? Posting where you have errors on any build is bad? Ummm ok if you want illegal builds, that certainly makes you a good builder...
(quote)Syrath101: Seeing that my feat arrangement bothers you (Desire effect), I will keep it as it is.
I doubt it bothers him. Again he is trying to help your build be a tad bit better in some early levels, but in your mind he is attacking your build. He didn't do anythign to your build except point out you could get part of your total AB a few levels earlier.
Damn Syrath.... How dare you make an improvement to a build without changing any skill points or changing any selected feats (outside the order they are taken). Oh well as you pointed out earlier, she is going to do what she is going to do. I know what I am going to do as well. I'll continue to point out any errors or improvment areas I see, as I would expect of anyone to do in regards to any of my builds.
Quote: Starting Stats Str 10 Dex 20 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 8 Level Distribution Monk 10 Wizard 1 Arcane Archer 29
Final Stats Str 10 Dex 30 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8
Your skill points are based on your final Int stat, I think, but from what I can see it never changed to 14 in your build from 12 at the beginning. So your final Int is wrong (in both versions of your build, I think), and you skill points are off.
Disclaimer: not an attempt at improvement (heaven forbid!); merely trying to get the build CORRECT. . . _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
Maybe you should switch the last AA-lvl for a monk, like this:
9 Monk 1 Wizard 29 Arcane Archer 1 Monk
In that way you can max out tumble and discipline. Remove Heal and lower something else for that. You can also remove 2 Arcane Archers and add 2 monk, you will lose 1 AB, but you will get higher speed, Spell Resistance 22 (Dont know if that is enough though)and immunity against deseases (Then you dont need heal).
All suggestions to Tyr for her builds is pretty irrelevant. She has been banned from the guild, and to my knowledge banned from all Bioware forums for her crude and vulgar attitude towards other people. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Ewww this is like pulling hair out of a drain.
What's really sad is that every month or so I read this thread because of a new post. Then I have to work my way through all the vitriolic Tyr-mail in the middle to try to learn something from those who attempted to improve this build.
Could one of the administrators snip out all the hateful replies in the thread? Or maybe it needs to be removed completely - there is another monk->AA build (Iron Pesky Mosquito 15 Monk/2 Wiz/23 AA) in the build list.
It's simply amazing how much bitterness and hostility some people carry around with them.
Thanks to everyone here who contributes and aids others. Kaliban
PS - Can't we all just get along?
Hehe she did piss a lot of people off, including myself. If you had seen some of the pms she sent, you would know exactly why she is no longer a memer of the official Bioware community. This guild has been much better off without her presence. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Quote: This guild has been much better off without her presence.
I would have voted her off the island in a second. Its certainly been much more peaceful around here without her. . . its kinda sad, since she did come up with some intruiging ideas once in a blue moon. But finding the occasional diamond was NOT worth having to wade through the sh*t you got communicating with her, though. . .and for the life of me, I cant understand why she could never get her feats/skill points correct in her builds; not even after 2-3 times. . .very weird. _________________ Normal kids play rock-paper-scissors. Shifter kids play IronGolem-RustMonster-MindFlayer. . .
To true Xitooner. She did come up with a lot of interesting ideas, but as soon as you pointed out the flows in some of those ideas or tweaks to imporved them, the veritable *** storm commenced. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
One question, where is the damage going to come from in this build? If the place its used has no DR or Soak items you will do fine with the 15 pts from the AA class. But any good Barb / DD with the DR feats will ignore you, and if the mod/PW/whatever has some good (20DR) items your going to be hard pressed to do more then just plink people a few times with 1D8+15(aa)+6(mighty?) damage. That gives you a range of 22-29 damage per hit.... ouch if your facing any kind of mid or good level of DR.
No Mighty for this character - you have to have STR bonuses to get the Mighty damage.
That leaves arrows to get your extra damage, which is why I prefer Bard7/RDD10/AA23. Start with an Elf and for the cost of one Great Strength you can get STR25 and still have 30 DEX. Plus you get maxed Tumble, Spellcraft, UMD, the Bard song and some useful spells.
More an attacking AA than a defending one...
I very much like this build, everyone who argued the points about self con epic dodge ect ect... i don't want to argue.......
I'd simply like to ask if somebody could tell me how to adapt the build to get epic dodge and the 5th self conceal level. I'm not very good at builds and I'm guessing its quite a minor shift of feats, if someone could please point me in the direction it would be very much apreciated. thanks
I very much like this build, everyone who argued the points about self con epic dodge ect ect... i don't want to argue.......
I'd simply like to ask if somebody could tell me how to adapt the build to get epic dodge and the 5th self conceal level. I'm not very good at builds and I'm guessing its quite a minor shift of feats, if someone could please point me in the direction it would be very much apreciated.
:D thanks :D
Syrath could tell you for sure, but for now here's the link to his Shadow Archer (Bard 8/AA 8/SD 16) that gets Epic Dodge and SC 5:
I very much like this build, everyone who argued the points about self con epic dodge ect ect... i don't want to argue.......
I'd simply like to ask if somebody could tell me how to adapt the build to get epic dodge and the 5th self conceal level. I'm not very good at builds and I'm guessing its quite a minor shift of feats, if someone could please point me in the direction it would be very much apreciated.
thanks
This class combo can not get epic dodge. Epic dodge requires defensive roll which cna only come from rogue or shadow dancer classes. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Oh well as you pointed out earlier, she is going to do what she is going to do. I know what I am going to do as well. I'll continue to point out any errors or improvment areas I see, as I would expect of anyone to do in regards to any of my builds.
Its certainly been much more peaceful around here without her. . . 
thanks