Would appreciate comments and criticisms. I tried it out and it's fun to play (although I apologize if I may have reversed the order of some of the later feats; I think this is correct but wouldn't swear to it).

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Shadow Slayer
Rogue 11/BG 28/SD1

STR 16 ->26 (+10)
DEX 16
CON 12
CHA 8
INT 14
WIS 8

Skills - Max out:
Move silently
hide
tumble
disciple
UMD
others at player's discretion

1 R1, Power attack, cleave
2 R2
3 R3, dodge
4 R4, STR17
5 R5
6 R6 knockdown
7 R7
8 R8, STR 18
9 BG1 improved knockdown
10 BG2
11 BG3
12 BG4 2 W fighting, STR 19
13 BG5
14 BG6
15 BG7 ambidexterity
16 BG8, STR 20
17 BG9
18 BG10 improved 2W fighting
19 R9
20 R10, STR 21
21 SD1 improved crit -rapier
22 BG11
23 BG12
24 BG13, STR22, great cleave, BG feat: armor skin
25 BG14
26 BG15
27 BG16, great strength (STR 23), BG feat: overwhelming crit rapier
28 BG17, STR24
29 BG18
30 BG19, improved crit - longbow, BG feat overwhelming crit longbow
31 BG20
32 BG21, STR25
33 BG22, spring attack, BG feat dev crit rapier
34 BG23
35 BG24
36 BG25, STR26, toughness, BG feat dev crit longbow
37 BG26
38 BG27
39 BG28, epic will, BG feat epic fiend
40 R11, STR27


Summary
Pros: Dev crit for both rapier and longbow, wide crits for dual-wielded rapiers (12-20), 6 at/round with rapiers, 5 with bow (using rapid shot) before any buffs, and massive sneak attacks of 14d6 with the ability to use them over and over because you can hide in plain sight. Excellent HP.

The BG levels really help to fit in some extra feats while maintaining fairly good sneak damage (+1d6 sneak starting@lvl4, bonus feats every 3rd level starting @lvl13). Traditionally it's difficult for rogue-type characters to get a wide variety of feats -- ITWF, devcrit in 2 weapons, 4 at/round, SD prereqs, PBS/rapid shot, etc., and still maintain a good sneak attack bonus.

Cons: Poor will saves

Some things I would really like to fit in somehow: epic prowess and EWF for both weapons (would add +4 to BAB). Maybe it would be worth losing the ITWF to increase BAB (this would improve BAB by +8 by eliminating the -4/-4 ITWF rapier penalty & adding an additional 4 from the new feats).

Edited By Falconhurst on 09/01/04 23:10

Quote: Posted 09/01/04 22:44:16 (GMT) -- Falconhurst

Would appreciate comments and criticisms. I tried it out and it's fun to play (although I apologize if I may have reversed the order of some of the later feats; I think this is correct but wouldn't swear to it).

-----------------
Shadow Slayer
Rogue 11/BG 28/SD1

STR 16 ->26 (+10)
DEX 16
CON 12
CHA 8
INT 14
WIS 8

Skills - Max out:
Move silently
hide
tumble
disciple
UMD
others at player's discretion

1 R1, Power attack, cleave
2 R2
3 R3, dodge
4 R4, STR17
5 R5
6 R6 knockdown
7 R7
8 R8, STR 18
9 BG1 improved knockdown
10 BG2
11 BG3
12 BG4 2 W fighting, STR 19
13 BG5
14 BG6
15 BG7 ambidexterity
16 BG8, STR 20
17 BG9
18 BG10 improved 2W fighting
19 R9
20 R10, STR 21
21 SD1 improved crit -rapier
22 BG11
23 BG12
24 BG13, STR22, great cleave, BG feat: armor skin
25 BG14
26 BG15
27 BG16, great strength (STR 23), BG feat: overwhelming crit rapier
28 BG17, STR24
29 BG18
30 BG19, improved crit - longbow, BG feat overwhelming crit longbow
31 BG20
32 BG21, STR25
33 BG22, spring attack, BG feat dev crit rapier
34 BG23
35 BG24
36 BG25, STR26, toughness, BG feat dev crit longbow
37 BG26
38 BG27
39 BG28, epic will, BG feat epic fiend
40 R11, STR27


Summary
Pros: Dev crit for both rapier and longbow, wide crits for dual-wielded rapiers (12-20), 6 at/round with rapiers, 5 with bow (using rapid shot) before any buffs, and massive sneak attacks of 14d6 with the ability to use them over and over because you can hide in plain sight. Excellent HP.

The BG levels really help to fit in some extra feats while maintaining fairly good sneak damage (+1d6 sneak starting@lvl4, bonus feats every 3rd level starting @lvl13). Traditionally it's difficult for rogue-type characters to get a wide variety of feats -- ITWF, devcrit in 2 weapons, 4 at/round, SD prereqs, PBS/rapid shot, etc., and still maintain a good sneak attack bonus.

Cons: Poor will saves

Some things I would really like to fit in somehow: epic prowess and EWF for both weapons (would add +4 to BAB). Maybe it would be worth losing the ITWF to increase BAB (this would improve BAB by +8 by eliminating the -4/-4 ITWF rapier penalty & adding an additional 4 from the new feats).

I would definitely get rid of the 2-weapon fighting feats. You will save 3 feats and end up with a higher AB, and since you won't need Dex to start out with, you could use the extra points to get Con and Cha to 14. I would definitely recommend you get Divine Shield to help you boost your AC, and move Great Cleave and Imp. Crit: Rapier down into pre-epic lvls. I would probably drop the longbow since it's a Str-based build and use those feats for something else as well.

An alternative to that would be to go Dex-based and get Epic Dodge. You could definitely do this with your build, and it would allow you to use longbow as well as Rapier. I would probably choose Halfling for race, and change you starting stats to look something like this:

STR 10
DEX 18
CON 16
CHA 8
INT 14
WIS 8

You would also need to change you lvls a bit since you need both Defensive Roll and Improved Evasion in order to get Epic Dodge. Going Rogue 14/BG 25/SD1 would accomplish this, but if you went Rogue 17/BG 22/SD1 you could get Crippling Strike as well, and your sneak attacks now become 9d6 Rogue + 7d6 BG = 16d6, rather than the 14d6 you had previously. Pump all attribute points into Dex and take a couple Great Dex feats and you can get the 30 Dex you need for Self Concealment, although I probably wouldn't bother as I don't really think it's worth the feats. Thanks for the comments. Yes, the +2 to saves and other BG bennies from higher CHA would be nice.

A couple questions:
1. Halfling will be less effective with knockdown, which is crucial to the disabling attack, as well as losing on strength that will decrease damage from both a mighty bow and melee attacks & make devcrit more difficult or impossible. How 'bout an elf instead?
2. I assume you would recommend a weapon finesse feat?

This puts me down 2 feats, 1 from non-human, 1 for WF -- okay if I can figure out where to take them from.

Thanx,

Falconhurst

Edited By Falconhurst on 09/02/04 02:23

One word ... Mobility. Where is it? You could loose Imp KD to get it pre epic or get it at lvl 21.
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Demons are Forever! I dont see any of the weapon focus for the two weapons you have chosen to go dev crit. Not to fear, lads. This build, in addition to being 2 years old, is borked in a number of ways. There's quite a few in the annals like this that have slipped through thr cracks.
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Quote: Posted 05/01/06 11:33:11 (GMT) -- Jehoshua

I dont see any of the weapon focus for the two weapons you have chosen to go dev crit.

Weapon foci are not required to get Dev Crit. The manual's wrong once more.

Cheers,
Kail
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