Here's a build I was hoping would be considered for the bioware epic character builds page, but that may be dead now. In any event, thought I'd post it here for folks anyway.
Its a Strength based AC tank build, with an AC topping 100 and crit immunity, you stay in the battle much longer than the traditionaly soak tank. Slight weakness is AB (+50 with a +5 weapon and strength fully buffed), but that's still very strong for a class with no Warrior classes in it. Here it is:
Dave.
Well, 4 days, 75 views and no comments, hope that's a good sign .
Dave.
Well I looked at this thread but I didn't follow the external link - I guess I'm suspicious by nature.
Why don't you post the build in the thread like everyone else? It would be easier for us to read and comment upon.
I don't like to follow external links ever since I followed one to "You're an idiot. You're an idiot. You're an idiot....."
Just my two cents. I can't explain the other 74 views.
Kaliban.
I looked into it... it looks fairly decent as a melee build. But one problem; is that it appears hard to level until the UMD kicks in for spells?
With your str, do I work it out right that the total bab at lvl40 is base23(base13 at 20 + 10 for levels in epic)+13 for str bonus = +36? Is that not too low for imp expertise? I don't know; I usually play casters or battle casters that fall back on magic for high ac opponents.
Also, the cons seems a little high for an ac build?
Quote: Posted 12/31/04 09:49:34 (GMT) -- Khandahr
I looked into it... it looks fairly decent as a melee build. But one problem; is that it appears hard to level until the UMD kicks in for spells?
I'm not sure why you'd think that, I found it quite easy to level without it. I only use the UMD spells on rare occasions with the possible exception of Premonition.
Quote: With your str, do I work it out right that the total bab at lvl40 is base23(base13 at 20 + 10 for levels in epic)+13 for str bonus = +36? Is that not too low for imp expertise?
Well this is a tank build and not a damage dealing build, but it still manages to fight pretty well. Your +36 is almost right, its +39 with WF/EWF. Add in magic and you'll get 50-55.
Most the time your 95+ AC will be enough to make them need 20's to hit you, but for those tough villians with more than a 75 AB, you can crank it to over 105 allowing you to stay in melee with them a long time so your mages/archers/damage dealers can take them out .
Thats not a bad AB, but fighting anything with over a 70 AC will pretty much be a battle of 20's (i.e., they need 20's to hit you and vise versa). However, their crits don't count and yours likely do. Also, during those times crank your AC with Improved Expertise since it doesn't hurt your attack at that time (Also use IE when casting epic spells or using scrolls).
Dave.
Thanks for that; Ralk... I must say, having played a few levels so far this is an extremely useful build for fighting - most especially if you have good weapons at your disposal. I have gotten some good equipment for this build, and have some minor alterations (like using human for the extra feat [taking heavy armor earlier helps A LOT btw]); and also taking exotic proficiency for the build gives way to some decent weapons.
A point for anyone out there to bear firmly in mind; is that +X magical ac bonus for heavy armor is (for me anyway, on the world I play I can only get up to +4 armor bonus plate) negated by epic mage armor completely, so you would use enhanced plate ONLY for the base ac and any extra bonus besides the +armor enhancement. If that makes sense, I'm sure you understand what I mean.
Quote: Posted 01/02/05 17:45:33 (GMT) -- Khandahr
Thanks for that; Ralk... I must say, having played a few levels so far this is an extremely useful build for fighting - most especially if you have good weapons at your disposal. I have gotten some good equipment for this build, and have some minor alterations (like using human for the extra feat [taking heavy armor earlier helps A LOT btw]); and also taking exotic proficiency for the build gives way to some decent weapons.
Np, I too have moved around the first 3 feats depending on the specifics of early leveling on the server I'm on (organize the order of those to suit).
Of course I considered Human for the build too, but stuck with Elf because I just liked the wrongness of an Undead Elven Half-Dragon (plus exotic is 2 feats and Rapier is a darn fine 1-handed weapon that comes free with Elf .
Glad you're enjoying it,
Dave.
Just putting the text of this build here in case I bring down the link someday or its unavailable.
Dave.
======================== === Pale Drake Build === ========================
This build is designed to maximize your AC and versitility when facing Monsters or Opponents. Just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, Naked (with no items) you can achieve an AC as high as 71 (with Dodge, 72 versus the opponent you're facing. The breakdown is 13 Base + 14 Pale + 4 RDD + 2 Armor Skin + 8 Tumble + 20 Epic Mage Armor + 10 Improved Expertise. With items, its not unusual to exceed 100 AC on some servers (ensureing that monsters need 20's to hit you), on the server I play on he can reach a 107 AC with Expertise.
You would think a Melee AC build would be Dex based or Monk based, but its not. To compensate for its lack of Fighter classes it uses strength to help bring up its attack bonus (gaining +20 Str during the course of the build). Also since you're immune to critical hits, you essentially soak damage as well or better than a Dwarven Defender. You don't take damage off each hit, but that Scythe Weapon Master will never get that x5 damage on you (the dwarf may soak 50 of that 350 damage, but you will soak 280 in that case since you will only take the base damage of 70). Additionally, Elf is the chosen race to give you some decent weapon choices.
You might also think that a build with 30 levels of spellcasting classes in it would be a spellcaster, but not really. Its not really practical to cast your own paltry 2nd level Bard spells (especially with armor failure). Instead you will be casting your Epic Spell Feats (No spell failure) and using your Bard UMD ability to cast useful scrolls from *all* spellcasting classes (and with your AC you have no trouble getting the scrolls off when needed). Use your scrolls only when melee isn't winning for you . I like Holy Sword against mages to knock down their defenses and Greater Spell Mantle to make me immune to their spells for a time. A good scroll to bump your fighting prowess up to fighter level is Divine Power, its lasts a lot longer than True Strike and Flame Weapon will help your melee damage.
Uhm, i'm quite irritated. Is it really possible to start taking palemaster-levels at level 4? If i'm correct than the prerequisite of taking palemaster is beeing capable of casting level 3 arcane spells... That would be level 7 bard? Anything i didn't take into consideration?
Thx in advance, Ninoo
Bioware messed it up, the real pre-req for pale master is 3 levels of an arcane casting class.
Yep; it's just 3 class levels to take palemaster.
Currently playing a modified version of this build (on the pw I play on, it makes more sense to have weapon variety, and some other things early on). Main changes were to remove a few feats that were of no use on my PW due to boss hp's; taking imp expert well before epic; getting blind fight and improved initiative (not sure how much this last helps, but I find I'm virtually always the first one to hit in an attack round with this build - not sure if this impacts that).
One thing I would actually change on retrospect? Not sure, really. If possible would be nice to get more ac; though not sure how to do this without sacrificing on the bab (you could go dex and get an extra +9 ac if you can get good robes but your bab will suffer about 8 or so; plus your damage is not as good)
Thx for the prompt answers. Sadly i'm not able to verify that information using the advanced halls of training deluxe (last edition). It won't let me chose the pm-class after i took levels 1-3 bard. Is there any other training module that i should use (i like planing my chars well before playing them on EG-Nordock)?
It's just that i thought of taking only 5 levels in bard (can't see anything i gain if i take one more level in bard), 25 levels of palemaster (for the extra bonus feat. at 25) and 10 rdd. I will give it 18 dex at the beginning, empowering it all the way to 32 by level 40. Taking one bardlevel at 22 and one on 37 is vital to the build. That leaves 3 to use in pre-epic. Pre-epic will be 10 more Rdd (good idea?) and 7 palemaster. Will be dual-wielding rapiers, cause of shields will deny my dex-bonus to AC (am i right?). Will end at 22 Str, 32 Dex, 8 Wis, 14 Char/Int, 10 Con? Any suggestions?
Ninoo
DawnWalker's "Novice to Epic Character Builder" is the trainer that I always use, and have never had a problem with not being able to take PM at lvl 4 after 3 lvls of an arcane class. I know quite a few other guys use this trainer as well, and I have never heard any complaints about it. _________________ If everyone is thinking alike, then someone is failing to think.
Shields (even huge tower ones) do not deny dex bonus to AC. They do, however, intefer with teh casting of Arcane Spells...not that you will be casting any in combat anyway. _________________ Click Here
I've tried the dex route (as has someone else I know on my pw) for this guy; and two things are very apparent early on. 1) Dodge based bonus bad. Your major ac boosts will be via dodge bonus, which is rather painful when dealing with mobs. 2) Str is the bonus, not dex. You're losing out on +3 to your attack AND damage, which could be the difference between a hit and a miss; most importantly could mean having to take the normal expertise and improved expertise.
Just imo; this is a str-based ac build, dex just will not cut it there.
i would suggest taking epic skill focus tumble instead of epic resist lightning, you'll get 2 more added to ac
i would also take some points away in int and dex. you dont really need all those skill points in lore. then by taking heavy armor and using a cats crace spell you should be in the clear of what you lost. i would max my str and perhaps boost up the con.
i would suggest taking epic skill focus tumble instead of epic resist lightning, you'll get 2 more added to ac
No, you won't. The Tumble boost to AC is only granted off actual base ranks you've invested in it.
*edit* Besides, the Energy Resist feat is taken as the PM level 13 bonus feat. IIRC, Epic Skill Focus isn't available as a feat choice (in fact, I think only Epic Energy Resistance is available at PM 13 in this build).
Quote: i would also take some points away in int and dex. you dont really need all those skill points in lore. then by taking heavy armor and using a cats crace spell you should be in the clear of what you lost. i would max my str and perhaps boost up the con.
He's taking Dodge, which requires 13 DEX and he's also taking the Expertise line of feats, which require 14 CON. The boosted Lore is actually not a bad idea, as he has high UMD. It's often a nice bonus to be able to identify and use items you find in the field. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 10/19/05 19:31
Yes Lore is good for high UMD characters. I have often wondered why there is no synergy bonus between these skills. It would make sense I think.
Quote: Posted 10/19/05 19:29:06 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
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He's taking Dodge, which requires 13 DEX and he's also taking the Expertise line of feats, which require 14 CON.
Expertise requies 13+ INT. _________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Oh man, I have to get some sleep... _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
How did this build get back to the top of the heap? I'm not complaining. I love this build. I'd just like for it to stay hidden so not everyone knows what I play all the time.
King Harbromm
I just realized how silly that sounded since I was the last post on here in forever. But seriously, I only posted here because the build was back on page 1 for some reason and no one had posted in forever.
King Harbromm
Don't the palemaster levels mean that this build would need a higher charisma to cast the level 5-6 spells? I ask because I like the build and needs to know.
Quote: Posted 10/23/05 23:47:42 (GMT) -- Ithacan
Don't the palemaster levels mean that this build would need a higher charisma to cast the level 5-6 spells? I ask because I like the build and needs to know.
You still don't have enough Bard levels to access them. It's a quirk of the CHA -based casters. You still need enough of your base caster levels to get access to the actual higher level spells. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Cinn, you are the frikking bomb, thank you for responding so fast.
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