They can see you, cast death spells on you, and bash you into little pieces if they are buffed.
But Self Concealment 5 and Epic Dodge help you to cope with the "Bashing" part.
Clerics still have the edge on you, but you are a little more resiliant now.
To me, this build looks like a mix of heavy sneak attacker and light fighter. And that is fine with me, as I like versitile characters. Others might say that you should choose one or the other if you want the most powerful version of the build. So if you want power, then decide to be either rogue or light fighter. If rogue then drop the SV 5 and take Improved Sneak Attack instead (keep the Epic Dodge, just in case). If light fighter then take a lot more SD levels (the higher the better).
You get 20% XP penalty after lvl 9 when you take Elf. With only 10 Str you could go with a Halfling. Rogue is their favoured class, so no penalty. If you take Halfling, you get Con 14 with only investing 6 points into it. This frees the 2 points you need to get Str up to 10 and let you spend all your later ability points on dex if you want. There should be no problems dual-wielding daggers as a Halfling, and you also get the Halfling race and small size bonuses. You lose the Elf race bonuses, where keen senses maybe is the most important for this kind of build.
With all that SA bonus, I would consider Knockdown. It should be possible to drop one of your feats for it. But in that case Elf would be better because of racial size. _________________ There are no facts, only interpretations.
Edited By Mick Dagger on 01/03/05 14:15
Quote: Posted 01/03/05 13:28:33 (GMT) -- Aligory
But Self Concealment 5 and Epic Dodge help you to cope with the "Bashing" part.
Not only with the bashing part , try casting spells on someone with concealment and you will find that half the time you click on them nothing happens. So 50 percent of targetted spells also fail to go off. Explains why Self concealment is the most expensive and hardest to obtain feat in the game.
You get 20% XP penalty after lvl 9 when you take Elf. With only 10 Str you could go with a Halfling. Rogue is their favoured class, so no penalty. If you take Halfling, you get Con 14 with only investing 6 points into it. This frees the 2 points you need to get Str up to 10 and let you spend all your later ability points on dex if you want. There should be no problems dual-wielding daggers as a Halfling, and you also get the Halfling race and small size bonuses. You lose the Elf race bonuses, where keen senses maybe is the most important for this kind of build.
With all that SA bonus, I would consider Knockdown. It should be possible to drop one of your feats for it. But in that case Elf would be better because of racial size.
So don't go fighter....go Champion of Torm
CoT gives you many feats like fighter, increases your BAB like fighter, and -- best of all --gives you bonuses to all saves (such as Will Save, the bane of rogues). You avoid an XP penalty and the only thing you lose is Weapon Specialisation & Epic W/S. Which is what.. +3 to hit/+6 damage? Times two daggers? Pffah. If you're relying on that to take down crit-immune mobs then you're deluding yourself. This character is all about the sneak attack. And with 17d6 of it, the paltry bonus from WS & EWS is negligable.
Check out my Elven Champion Spellsword to see how I implemented CoT with Rogue:
Click Here
Kaliban
(Toot-toot goes the sound of my own horn ) _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
i desperately need critiques for this build elf rogue 33/fighter 6/shadowdancer 1
str 10 --> 10 dex 20 --> 32 con 13 --> 14 wis 10 --> 10 int 10 --> 10 chr 8 --> 8
Ok I haven't analyzed your build, did notice this blunder right away that might be useful for all to see. Never take a stat like Dex to the max above, then add +1 to another stat like Con during your build. Its too inefficient.
Instead, start with a 19 Dex and add to dex during the entire build (still ending at 32 as you list above). By doing it this way you have free'd up 3 build points for stats and can take your con to 14 from the start and increase another stat by 2 as well (i.e., by doing it the above way you have effectively reduced one of your stats by 2).
i desperately need critiques for this build elf rogue 33/fighter 6/shadowdancer 1
str 10 --> 10 dex 20 --> 32 con 13 --> 14 wis 10 --> 10 int 10 --> 10 chr 8 --> 8
Ok I haven't analyzed your build, did notice this blunder right away that might be useful for all to see. Never take a stat like Dex to the max above, then add +1 to another stat like Con during your build. Its too inefficient.
Instead, start with a 19 Dex and add to dex during the entire build (still ending at 32 as you list above). By doing it this way you have free'd up 3 build points for stats and can take your con to 14 from the start and increase another stat by 2 as well (i.e., by doing it the above way you have effectively reduced one of your stats by 2).
Dave.
if i do it your way, i'm unable to take sc V by the end.
Instead, start with a 19 Dex and add to dex during the entire build (still ending at 32 as you list above). By doing it this way you have free'd up 3 build points for stats and can take your con to 14 from the start and increase another stat by 2 as well (i.e., by doing it the above way you have effectively reduced one of your stats by 2).
if i do it your way, i'm unable to take sc V by the end.
There are several ways to still work it out, I'll leave it to you to pick the one you find most acceptable (if you even want the stat boosts).
Instead, start with a 19 Dex and add to dex during the entire build (still ending at 32 as you list above). By doing it this way you have free'd up 3 build points for stats and can take your con to 14 from the start and increase another stat by 2 as well (i.e., by doing it the above way you have effectively reduced one of your stats by 2).
if i do it your way, i'm unable to take sc V by the end.
There are several ways to still work it out, I'll leave it to you to pick the one you find most acceptable (if you even want the stat boosts).
Dave.
it turns out i was wrong, i can take scV this way, but i only gain 2 build points, so i can only increase one of my stats by 1.
my pw allows letoing of chars after lvl 40 with certain bonuses and penalties. here is what my modified lvl 40 build would look like. critique it keeping in mind that the stats essentially can't be changed since they are fixed bonuses added to my original stats:
str 10 dex 19 con 14 int 10 wis 10 chr 9
or
str 11 dex 19 con 14 int 10 wis 10 chr 8
this build is based on bonuses to the first stat set.
rogue 33/fighter 6/shadowdancer 1
str 6 --> 6 dex 23 --> 34 con 12 --> 12 wis 10 --> 10 int 14 --> 14 chr 11 --> 11
btw, i'm pmbrennen. the major change is dropping improved sneak attack 1 for crippling strike. how come no one mentioned this way back then
Edited By fbr123 on 09/04/07 22:43
i'd also like to get people's opinions on the improved initiative feat vs. toughness. which would be better overall, for pvp, for pvm, for quests? this build ends up having around 500 hp with items on the PW i play on without the toughness feat.
You're DEX based, so my opinion is the Imp Initiative feat is probably not necessary. I'd go for the Toughness feat. While 1 extra HP per level isn't the greatest thing since sliced bread either, it will extend your survivability a bit, which is good for a DEX-based build as they generally take longer to drop their opponents due to lower damage output (not a concern if you can sneak attack them of course). _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
that's the thing, since i don't do much melee damage, i want to ensure i get the first KD to do my crippling strike and sneak attack damage, so that was my reasoning with imp init. what do you think? any other comments on the build?
I agree with Master Cinn, re: toughness over initiative, which checks are based on dex, with each character applying his/her dex mod to the roll, such that more HPs would seem to do you more good (for more info about it, see: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Initiative
Another to really consider instead of impr.initiative as you've taken on more ftr, might really want to consider picking up WS+EWS; this will give you +6 damage every time you deal with your dagger, which should help you out a bit when you factor in dual-wielding. That said, HPs are always good, too. _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 09/05/07 14:01
the way i'm thinking of improved init is "extra insurance" for a first strike against high dex builds, which tend to have low discipline, and which i will be attempting KD on. i understand that i'm going to have an init mod of around +18 with items, but wouldn't +22 be nice?
Sure, higher is better, and against other high DEX builds it may indeed make a difference. If that's why you want the feat, then go for it. It's certainly not going to hurt the build. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
You could switch Epic Prowess with EWF Dagger. That way you'd gain +1 AB sooner and your build would not change in the end.
i'd prefer to keep that order because i'll be using my bow more often at those levels on my PW, but that is definitely something i hadn't thought of. thanks
Edited By fbr123 on 09/05/07 19:49
Oh, I didn't see any mention of a bow being used for that build.
Perhaps you could also add your hunting tactics to this thread. Sometimes people come up with clever tactical combinations that others may find insightful.
i find myself, due to low ab, to often hang back in boss battles and using my bow and scrolls, which is a +10 weapon as opposed to my +6 daggers. not much tactics involved there, i just want to be more useful on boss runs earlier, and epic prowess gives me +1 to hit with a bow (and also my daggers).
there aren't a lot of hunting tactics that i use besides dagger in the main hand, shield in off hand, and KD spam for crit immune monsters, and hips, sneak, repeat for sneak attack vulnerable monsters. use of the bow in boss battles allows me to stand back and use rez scrolls, mordenkainen's, etc.
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that's the thing, since i don't do much melee damage, i want to ensure i get the first KD to do my crippling strike and sneak attack damage, so that was my reasoning with imp init. what do you think? any other comments on the build?
I agree with Master Cinn, re: toughness over initiative, which checks are based on dex, with each character applying his/her dex mod to the roll, such that more HPs would seem to do you more good (for more info about it, see: http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Initiative