Alright, so I made a new character. And, IMO, one of the best I've made.
The name Hannibal was chosen since I thought this was a monster of a character, and immediately, I thought of the movie about Hannibal Lector.
I started studying SBully's and cdaulepp's Puff, the magic dragon, and FINALLY found out what the reasons are for taking certain classes at certain lvl's.
Now, I've been playing NWN for about 2 years now (virtually) non stop. About 6 months ago I stopped and started about a month ago again. In this period I forgot pretty much everything I knew about character creation and had to relearn just about everything.
This worked out to my advantage, as I had to go read up on everything again, discovering lots of new things. With my newfound knowledge, I created a masterpiece, which is really, in the sense of the word, SBully's masterpiece. I used the template for Exploit Eddie, which SBully created in one of the Excellent Character builds threads, modified it ALOT and came up with a 71 AB (roll, 72 sheet), scythe wielding, 220 critting, 610 HP, 47 AC monster.
Now, before you ask, this character is NOT using any of the exploits in the game (that I know of) and does not include the Monk Class so as to get as many atacks with a Karma as possible. This is a perfectly ligitimate character (once again, As far as I know).
Here is the recipe, which I hope none of the ppl on my server will see *grin*
Notes: Ok, this dude was built for maximum dmg, maximum AB, and fair Hit Points and AC.
My plans with him was to get minimum the following feats: Epic Weapon Specialisation Maximize Spell Extend Spell Imp Crit
This, while maximising my STR (40 is my max beacause of the +12 Item bonus restriction. Aura of Vitality gives me +4 to STR, and Maximized Bull STR gives me 5, leaving me to find +3 STR from an Item to gain max STR.).
Items you need to get to improve the char: STR Items for more AB and DMG CON items for more Hit Points WIS for more Cleric spell slots
I reach my Maximum AB of 71 with this character after I casted the following spells: Maximized Bull STR Extended Aura of Vitality Extended Bless Extended Aid Extended Prayer Extended Battletide Extended Divine Power Extended Divine Favour Greater Magic Weapon
These are really the only spells you need to memorise, but I also memorise the following: Extended Silence Extended Ultravision Darkfire Negative Energy Protection Magical Circle against Evil Death Ward Maximized Endurance Extended Spell Resistance Extended True Seeing Extended Improved Invisibility Extended Monstrous Regeneration Regeneration
I usually play with WAR and STR domains, but this time I went for trickery and WAR. We have plenty of Haste Items on our server, so no need for Travel, but I do need Improved Invisibility for the 50% Concealment bonus you get. I also needed the WAR domain powers, which is supposed to grant me another 5 AB, damage and saves, but I think I reached my max. I was under the impression that you can only have a +20 bonus to AB via items and spells, but it seems I got to 26 (71 AB - 45 base). War domain Powers does not increase this, so it's really a dud domain to take at this stage. You are free to take any of the domains you wish. I still took War, since you get divine power extra on lvl 3, allowing you to extend it at lvl 4. My lvl 5 spells are always an orgy so that's why I want it extended at 4.
How I tested this character: I used a mod called "Novice to Epic Character Maker version 4.5" to build my characters. An assumption that I made was that the creatures in this mod was the standard NWN creatures. The Prismatic dragon, for example, was used for the majority of testing.
I did not test the character against mages, but on out server, mages is in the minority, so that is a risk I am willing to take. I did test it against a couple of liches, clerics, and other types of warriors.
The biggest test was to kill a prismatic dragon. Well, this proved to be an easy task. So I took on two Prismatic Dragons, killing them within 20 seconds of them spawning. So I decided to take on three Prismatic Dragons, same effect. Then four, five and eventually, I decided to take on 8 Prismatic Dragons as a final test.
These were spawned all at once, beating away and casting away at me. I mem'ed two Greater Restorations Spells, which were to serve as my heals. I used one of them. I had to rebuff my Extended Divine Favour spell twice and Extended Battletide once. Then all 8 Prismatic Dragons was dead, and I had 20 Hit Points to spare. Up until the last dragon, I did not make use of Knockdown, as I wanted to stress the character a bit more. The last one would've killed me, had I not spammed Knockdown on every hit on him.
I have to say that I'm quite impressed with him, and I'm sure you will agree with me that killing 8 Prismatic Dragons while using one heal is not to be sneezed at.
Please give constructive Critisism, especially regarding increasing AB and DMG, while keeping the minimum feats I want on this character. I am prepared to sacrifice the Epic Weapon Spec and Weapon Spec feats if that means there is another way to get more than 4 permanent dmg per attack.
Items that were worn while testing was done: 1. +2, Keen Scythe. Greater magic Weapon made this a +5 Keen scythe) 2. 7 (base) +6 (magic) armour with perm haste and +2 dex (which is useless anyways, since I do not get an AC bonus for this (Reflex saves are influenced, though) 3. +5 STR belt (of which only +3 was used due to the +12 limitation) 4. Ring of Regen +4 5. Ring of Prot +5 (AC +5) 6. Ammy of Natural Armor +5 7. Boots of hardiness +3 (AC +3 and CON +3) 8. Golden Circlet (Imminuty to Mind-Affecting Spells, Will +1, Concentration +1, Spell Resistance +10
The items was chosen to try and simulate the kind of items I will be wearing at lvl 40 on the server I play on.
The armor, for example, has 7 +6 AC on it. We do have 8 +5 AC armor's on our server, so that would be the same. Also, no cloak or gloves was used during testing, as we have a Haste (nothing else) cloak on our server, which the armor was simulating during testing. I don't know yet which bracers/gloves/gauntlets I will use, but it will probably be something with Discipline/Death Magic Immunity or something along those lines (if they exist on my server)
I hope you guys enjoy this character, and that you will help me improve him.
I would especially love to hear from SBully and cdaulepp, if you guys read this.
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 02/27/08 20:36
First off I like this character, particularly for low to mid magic. I like the 45 unbuffed AB which is really good for a build with this many cleric levels. I did notice a couple of things though...
Firstly your level distribution, you take 5 cleric levels pre epic, which cost you 2 off your AB, if you change to Fighter: 8 Cleric: 16 WM: 16 You would have the same AB and you would have some extra cleric spells, at the cost of one epic feat for one pre-epic feat. As you'll see this isn't a problem for this build though.
Quote: Lvl Progression: - 1 - F - Dodge, Mobility, Expertise - 2 - F - Weapon Proficiency (Exotic) - 3 - F - Weapon Focus (Scythe)
You might want to switch the Weapon Proficiency (Exotic) and Weapon Focus (Scythe) to level 1, and move the Experitse and Mobility to level 2 and 3.
You have a redundant feat here, if you switch to the level distribution I suggested you could take toughness pre-epic for the extra 40 HP and take Epic Weapon Spec. at 21.
Quote: Maximum Hit Points: 610 (517 during my tests)
Your unbuffed Max HP should be 370, with endurance and aura of vitality you could get an extra 160 (530) only with the full +12 to CON do you get 610.
Quote: I was under the impression that you can only have a +20 bonus to AB via items and spells, but it seems I got to 26 (71 AB - 45 base).
The extra 6 comes from the +12 to STR which is not counted towards the +20 limit. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Hey,
Thanks for the feedback. I like your ideas... makes sense.
The feat on lvl 21 should be Maximize spell, not extend. Typo, sorry.
Taking 8 fighter lvl's does make sense, but is it not going to give 1 AB more, overall? You gain 2 by taking fighter pre-epic, and lose 1 by losing the 3 WM lvl's.
Quote: You might want to switch the Weapon Proficiency (Exotic) and Weapon Focus (Scythe) to level 1, and move the Experitse and Mobility to level 2 and 3.
Is there a reason for this? Besides playing with the scythe from lvl 1? My reasons for doing it this way wa to try and use as many bonus feats for the necessary stuff, so that I can get as many Great STR feats as possible in the epic lvl's. I do understand that I can swop a couple of feats around. I am, for example, considering not taking the Maximize feat, as I got a +5 STR belt on our server, meaning I only need to get +7 STR via spells. I also have a +2 STR Gloves, which means only 5 STR via spells. Maximized Bull STR is no longer necessary. I could probably try and get toughness there.
Sorry for the mistake in Hit Points... dunno what I was thinking. I took into account the boots of hardiness +3... sorry again.
Is there any way I can change things around to get overwelming crit too? That would give me quite a nice extra crit dmg, not?
Thanks again for the feedback.
Cheers Firestar
Quote: Posted 01/10/05 09:57:34 (GMT) -- Firestar Rogue Taking 8 fighter lvl's does make sense, but is it not going to give 1 AB more, overall? You gain 2 by taking fighter pre-epic, and lose 1 by losing the 3 WM lvl's.
You gain 1 AB by taking <=4 cleric levels pre-epic (you lose 1 AB at levels 1,5,9,13 and 17 for 3/4 BAB classes), and you lose 1 AB by losing the 3 WM levels. So no net AB change.
Quote:
Quote: You might want to switch the Weapon Proficiency (Exotic) and Weapon Focus (Scythe) to level 1, and move the Experitse and Mobility to level 2 and 3.
Is there a reason for this? Besides playing with the scythe from lvl 1? My reasons for doing it this way wa to try and use as many bonus feats for the necessary stuff, so that I can get as many Great STR feats as possible in the epic lvl's. I do understand that I can swop a couple of feats around.
No real change, other than you can use a scythe at level 1, so it makes the build more playable.
Quote: I am, for example, considering not taking the Maximize feat, as I got a +5 STR belt on our server, meaning I only need to get +7 STR via spells. I also have a +2 STR Gloves, which means only 5 STR via spells. Maximized Bull STR is no longer necessary. I could probably try and get toughness there.
Without a lot of cleric levels and a high wisdom for good SR penetration and DCs respectively, your offensive spells won't be too effective, so if you don't need maximize for your buffs go with toughness or still or silent spell (I'm not sure, but I think you can still or silent harm and heal, so you can fill some higher level slots with them.)
Quote: Is there any way I can change things around to get overwelming crit too? That would give me quite a nice extra crit dmg, not?
It would cost you 4 feats, so probably not. At any rate, the bonus to damage is not multiplied so it doesn't add that much.
Quote: Thanks again for the feedback.
No Problem. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Edited By Mithdradates on 01/10/05 22:53
Thanks again for the feedback, Mithdradates...
Does Overwhelming Crit's dmg not get multiplied? Thanks, didn't know that. Useless feat then. On our server we cannot get Dev Crit, so getting Overwhelming Crit without the multiplied dmg is useless as well.
Another question, does Overwhelming crit ad 4d6 to a WM scythe (which is x5), or does it stop at 3d6 for a x4 multiplier?
Quote: Without a lot of cleric levels and a high wisdom for good SR penetration and DCs respectively, your offensive spells won't be too effective, so if you don't need maximize for your buffs go with toughness or still or silent spell (I'm not sure, but I think you can still or silent harm and heal, so you can fill some higher level slots with them.)
My casting is purely for buffing, and mainly AB related buffs, as you can see in my starting post. I have decided to go with toughness rather, as it makes more sense. Good call. Thanks again.
Quote: Posted 01/11/05 06:14:52 (GMT) -- Firestar Rogue Another question, does Overwhelming crit ad 4d6 to a WM scythe (which is x5), or does it stop at 3d6 for a x4 multiplier?
I'm about 90% sure it's 4D6. _________________ Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
I have to disagree on the maximize. I have rolled too many low numbers on bull's strength and endurance to be agree that it's not necessary (most common roll I get is 2; for endurance at lvl40 IIRC this is a difference of 40 or 80hp, depending on your current cons being even or odd numbered). Also; you can maximize the few spells you do use offensively so that the lower level does not decrease the damage output by much. But that is just MHO..
I have to agree with you. I do think that Maximize would be very necessary, even if I ONLY use if for Bull STR ad Endurance.
But, in my situation, on my server, there are enough STR items to make it worthwile to drop that feat for something like Toughness.
If I cast aura of vitality, I get +4 to STR, +4 to CON.
I also have a +5 STR belt, leaving me to find +3 STR somewhere to max my STR on my char.
I also have a +3 boots of hardiness, and I heard there is a legendary item available that is boots of hardiness +4. Meaning if I got hold of these +4 boots somewhere, I would need to find 4 CON somewhere to max my CON.
I think it is a risk that I'm willing to take. I can get close enough to my max with both Bull STR and Endurance to warrant not taking maximize.
And this will also allow me to make use of any additional STR/CON items that I do find. If I do find a ring, for example, with STR +2, Con +3, then the max feat would become completely useless. It is only because of these reasons that I dropped the Max feat.
Under normal sircumstances, and on a normal server, I would definately advise to take Maximize spell.
Very true - if you have the items that fill in the max buff rule; then you would be wasting a feat. The servers that I play tend to have items that are more useful for the slots than the stat-boost equivelant, eg: Boots of Hardiness +x would be foregone for boots of speed, rings on con+x would be better ignored over rings of hiding or truesight, etc. So, yeah, always take into account what you can get and what you are able to use:D.
How about lowering the wm lvls by 3, and add 3 more cleric lvls? It would result in losing 2 or 3 ab, and the extra ac feat, but instead you can get longer-lasting buffs, and 3 "Undead's foe" lvl 9 spells, which will increase the ac by 12, plus giving you some quite fancy immunities. Would that work? And since i dont think the maximise spells are any good for this character, i chose to gain an additional strenght feat. My vertion was ectually quite good, but now i haven't tried this yet (since i noticed my excellent plan at the start [j/k]), and it might be alot better than my vertion.
I suppose it is possible to lose the 3 last WM lvl's for cleric lvl's. And it would make a good character. However, my goal with this character was to get the maximum AB possible and still retaining a fair amount of playability.
Now, this character already strugles with AB (and mundane weapons) up to about lvl 30-ish. He gets Greater Magic Weapon on lvl 22, and then only gives 2 enchantment. So already the character is slightly difficult to play at up to about lvl 30.
Also, for me cleric is only useful as a melee character up to lvl 15. That is when Greater Magic Weapon matures into a +5 Enchantment. That's when and Divine favour matures into a +5. And your spells last long enough, since you are mainly casting extended spells. Because you only need buffing spells of the melee type, finding space to cast only extended spells is fairly easy.
Would you mind posting your version so that we can see where the diffirences are?
Quote: Posted 01/11/05 06:14:52 (GMT) -- Firestar Rogue Another question, does Overwhelming crit ad 4d6 to a WM scythe (which is x5), or does it stop at 3d6 for a x4 multiplier?
I'm about 90% sure it's 4D6.
Hmm, I'm 90,000001% sure that it's the base weapon crit modifier that determines the additional damage. So I would have to say that it's 3d6 (x4).
Quote: Posted 01/11/05 06:14:52 (GMT) -- Firestar Rogue Another question, does Overwhelming crit ad 4d6 to a WM scythe (which is x5), or does it stop at 3d6 for a x4 multiplier?
I'm about 90% sure it's 4D6.
Hmm, I'm 90,000001% sure that it's the base weapon crit modifier that determines the additional damage. So I would have to say that it's 3d6 (x4).
Here's what the Grimoire has to say about Overwhelming Crit:
Quote: When using the weapon chosen, the character deals +1d6 points of damage on a successful critical hit. If the weapon’s critical multiplier is x3, add +2d6 and if the multiplier is x4, add 3d6.
Note that you're asking about a x5 multiplier, but the scythe only (only!) has a x4 multiplier: Click Here
So methinks the answer is +3d6.
Thanks, Kaliban _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
Edited By Kaliban99 on 01/14/05 16:21
Apparently it's all right to bump old builds if you have something constructive to add. Hopefully this is constructive.
I've been playing a build slightly modified, but derived from this thread on the PW i frequent, where there are certain boss mobs who are designed to be very difficult, so have insane AC etc. The AB of this build allows you to reliably hit them, which a lot of other melee builds struggle to accomplish.
Seeing as it's more of a tweak on what was suggested here, I felt that this would be the appropriate place to include it, rather than in a new thread, but anyway...
Following Mithdradates advice you can build a 8F/16Cl/16WM. (7F/4Cl/9WM pre epic)
You can work your feats around and then spend all general epic feats on Grtr Str, using 13WM for epic weapon focus, 8F for epic weapon specialisation and 16WM for epic prowess.
You lose empower/maximise spell, but can keep extend spell and then after getting the required/important feats, you're left with two pre-epic feats, which could be spent on KD/IKD, or blindfight, toughness, pwr attack, calledshot, bonus to resist, imp expertise, depending on your preference.
But the whole point of that is that you are not necessarily losing too much, but gain that extra important +1AB, pushing you up to an unbuffed 46 AB, leading to a max of 72, rather than 71. This obviously arises from the +2 str you can eak out.
I suppose it is possible to lose the 3 last WM lvl's for cleric lvl's. And it would make a good character. However, my goal with this character was to get the maximum AB possible and still retaining a fair amount of playability.