I've been wanting to post this a while but have never gotten the motivation to write it up. Since I was helping a guy on another board find a good defensive build, I posted it and copied it here. Behold Hurgan Ironshield, the epitome of defense.
Fighter 8/Monk 2/Dwarven Defender 26 Epic Toughness I, Great Constitution I
Fighter 8/Monk 2/Dwarven Defender 29 Epic Toughness II
Fighter 8/Monk 2/Dwarven Defender 30 Epic Toughness III
The highlights of this build you ask? AC that is in the stratosphere due to IE. DR 30/-. Total immunity to all poisons and diseases. Your saves are astronomical. And evasion makes you immune to most damage spells. Your fortitude save is MORE than high enough for any Devastating Critical hit (if they can even crit you) and your Deflect Arrows will help some against those pesky AAs.
Now for gear. Try this out.
Hammer - Bonus Damage (You won't hit often, so make each hit count!) Armor - AC Bonus Shield - AC Bonus Helmet - Regeneration (Possibly the Crown of Thorns?) Amulet - Natural Armor Rings - Regeneration Gloves - Epic Discipline Cloak - Deflection Bonus (Makes up for no Ring of Protection) Boots - Dodge Bonus (Sun Soul adds more AC than Haste. Since you're a monk, you can wear them.)
This will give you your HIGH AC and you'll NEVER be knocked down. The 13 regeneration is over the top. Most damage is going to be reduced by 30/- anyway, knowing that you get 13 back each round makes you nigh unstoppable.
By the way, HP for this build: 1016
I've used this guy on many a PvP server. Once you get the gear and some regeration it's on. These are no buffs, so they're active 24-7 - much unlike those silly clerics. A good strategy vs. offensive clerics is to throw on IE and weather the storm. Once the buffs wear out, turn on your Defensive Stance or maybe Improved Power Attack and beat them down. Against mages, you can literally laugh at them while they expend their ENTIRE spell set against you. You'll usually walk away with at LEAST half of your HP thanks to evasion and DR 30/-.
The downside is that you'll have a hard time finding people to fight. You can't hit much, so you need to optimize your damage per hit. Even when you can hit, you'll do about 15 damage each hit on average depending on your weapon. That'll mean a LONG battle!
Hope you enjoy, I know I love it.
King Harbromm
Obvious question, but why not take your 2nd Monk level at level 39, and max out Tumble instead of Concentration? Do the people you play with use Taunt a lot?
The reason being...
You need 10 non-dwarven defender levels pre-epic. The best I could do with that is take them at levels 19 & 20, but I prefer them earlier since I'm using Spellcraft instead of Tumble.
King Harbromm
What about this build do you find Superior to the Pale Drake? The latter seems much more defensive and offensive thatn this one.
Dave.
I've never seen the Pale Drake build. It's not in the indexed list, either. If you could post a link to it, I'd like to check it out.
King Harbromm
hi here you go...
Pale Drake
(it will be indexed in the next update ..soon)
griphook
I would like to see the Drake versus my Bard16/PM16/WM8 which is very similar. I say it would be a long slow battle.
My guy would win in PvP somewhat faster against people who are not immune to crits, but who knows how long our battle would take.
Two people with 100+ AC duking it out. Whoever gets the most 20 rolls. What a boring fight.
The easy difference is your whole build is based on spells. I mean, after a while even an extended Bull's Strength will wear off. Meanwhile, my character will still have DR 30/-, Regeneration 13, and saves out the yin yang. Plus, he's practically immune to crits considering you need to actually be able to hit with a 20 to confirm the critical. So, I would take my build over those magic dependant builds anyday.
King Harbromm
Actually I was comparing my Bard/PM/WM to the Drake build. Mine is not spell casting unless you want to go with the scrolls I will have.
Mine is also a melee build with an extremely high AC.
I wasn't nocking your build, in fact I thought it was pretty cool. I just got a chuckle out of thinking about my guy and the Drake guy standing there for 20 minutes swinging at each other.
I don't get into the "my build is better than yours" squabbles.
Quote: Posted 01/17/05 20:34:32 (GMT) -- KingHarbromm The easy difference is your whole build is based on spells... King Harbromm
None of the 3 builds mentioned rely's on spells?
Dave.
Hi, I am quite new here. Is there a reason, why you take Epic Toughness 3 instead of two times Greater Constitution and Epic Toughness 1. You will end up with +60 hp in both cases but profit from 2 more points in con. Well you must shuffle a bit with epic fort, but is should work, shouldnt it?
Hi, I am quite new here. Is there a reason, why you take Epic Toughness 3 instead of two times Greater Constitution and Epic Toughness 1. You will end up with +60 hp in both cases but profit from 2 more points in con. Well you must shuffle a bit with epic fort, but is should work, shouldnt it?
I can't speak for the designer, but perhaps it's a bonus Defender feat and there was only a few choices from which to choose? And that was the best of the ones offered. "Perhaps" because I could be wrong...
Kaliban _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
That's exactly the case. The Epic Toughness is a dwarven defender epic bonus feat while Great Constitution is just a regular feat. It would be impossible to take more Great Constitution feats because I have to use the regular feats for the Epic Fortitude, etc.
King Harbromm
Well you can take Greater Const at 24 and 39. But this would delay you dr3 until 36.
No thanks. Another side goal of this build is for him to be sturdy at nearly any level. Now, I don't have the disillusionment that he is a juggernaut from 1 - 40. However, he will stand a decent chance early on. The upside of the power curve begins with those DR feats. In the span of three quick levels, Hurgan doubles his DR. That's enough, for me, to warrant keeping the Constitution at 30 instead of 32.
King Harbromm
Take a look at my defending champion build. It has a lot of similar characteristics and in some cases better defensive abilities than this one. It also has much better offensive abilities. On that note, you may want to consider dropping your CON down and STR up to increase your offense. Up to you of course, but I believe you would end up with a stronger build at the cost of a little life. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
I'm not sure how you can laugh at mages. The 30/- does not apply to magic damage such as IGSM, negative damage such as vamp touch, fire damage such as flame arrow...?
And you aren't going to be able to hit the mage.
This build laughs at mages?
Yes. This build laughs at mages. You're not going to do 1000 points of damage on one set of memorized spells ESPECIALLY after you spend have your spells on all those silly buffs. Not to mention he has evasion (which should make about 30% of all the mages spells not work due to his high saves) an insane AC (which totally negates all of those negative energy touch attacks unless you roll a 20) and with the proper gear Regeneration 14 and DR 30/- to all elemental types.
So, to mages I say, "HA!"
King Harbromm
IGMS 12 damage per missile pure caster (Sorc) 20 missiles 240 damage, 5 at 240=1200 hp gone, dead DD.
A pure sorc can get 13 maximised IGMS. You will need big hands to catch all these.
DD works well against othere melee's but caster wins the day IMO.
A spamming maxed IGMS wizard will kill about anything, so I do not think its a viable arguement against the build.
But if you did want more anti-mage power, do not forget the amazing feat called knockdown. Though you do not have this on the original character sheet, it could easily be worked in (Drop the Great Fortitude feat would be my solution, its not like your fort saves are low anyway).
Actually, I may have to conceed this one. On the server I primarily played on - the one where I owned mages no matter their level - IGMS was banned. So, I really don't have any arguement against that. However, I would almost be willing to bet that the first time you decide to fight Hurgan before knowing his abilities, you would not take the time to memorize 13 maximized IGMS - but that's just a guess.
So, aside from silly spells that shouldn't be in the game to begin with, Hurgan would easily stand up against casters.
King Harbromm
Not to fuel the fire anymore, I love the build (made it on my server ) but raylon didnt say "wiz spammin 13" he said "SORC"... big difference. Sorcs dont have to memorize anything, just have to be fully rested. As far as my limited knowledge goes.
Peace
Edited By avado on 03/01/05 18:01
Do you play somewhere where Dev Crit has been disabled? If not, a dedicated Dev Crit build (like my Avatar of Torm's Righteous Strength build) would make mincemeat of it. I think. I don't know, since I rarely if ever go PvP, but it seems like this build wouldn't have much of a chance against that type of build.
Comments like that are obviously made by those who don't understand how Dev. Crit works. So, sit down children and you just might learn something.
A devestating critical is made by a character with said epic feat landing a critical hit and then the person hit by said feat failing a fortitude saving throw.
Let's look at this step by step.
First, you'll have to hit the epitome of defense. That's probably going to take a 20 since his biggest ability is high AC. Since a 20 is always a hit, you have a 1 in 20 chance of this happening. Those are pretty good odds.
Second, you have to confirm a critical. This means you make another attack roll. If this one hits, you score a critical! But unlike the previous one, 20s are not always hits here. Take this example: Hurgan has an AC of 60. Bill the Torm Guy has a +40 to hit. That means Bill the Torm Guy would have a 1 in 400 chance to critical Hurgan. Now, if Hurgan's AC were 61 (meaning Bill the Torm Guy technically needs a 21 to hit Hurgan) there is now a 0% chance of scoring a critical hit against the mighty dwarf.
Now, for that saving throw. Devastaing criticals are usually in the 40s if I'm not mistaken. I will give you a save against a DC of 50 since your Torm Guy is a one trick pony. Hurgan's saving throw is about +45 if not +50.
In short, if you even CAN crit him, you'd need a miracle to have the dev. crit work.
King Harbromm
Why is it everyone challenges MY build? Do they doubt my prowess? Why isn't anyone arguing about how weak the Pale Drake is?
Again, a dedicated devastating critcal master will, like an IGMS spammer, make little blobs of jelly out of almost everyone.
And KingHarbromm, please don't take any of this personally. Your build asks for comments because it is so specialized in a subject that is touchy. Plus, you really didn't post enough stats for people. If you could list base saves, armor class, and maybe AB or something then people would be able to see the potential of this build.
The problem was that you kept talking big but didn't show any proof . And you kept talking about items. Like this regeneration 13 thing....
I don't want to rag on your build, because apparently you're quite sensitive about it, but I don't understand how it has such "insane ac." It's going to have 10 ac more than every other build that wears full armor and a tower shield, which, frankly, is hardly spectacular. And what he gives up for that is even more ab. Let's say you're wearing +5 items. 10(base)+2(armor skin)+10(imp evasion)+11(tower shield/full plate)+25(items)+1(dex)=59. 45 AB mundane is pretty standard. Top that off with a +5 weapon, and they're hitting you with half of their attacks. You didn't mention tumble... did you have enough int to take it or not? That might pop you up to 63 at least.
Secondly, this build has absolutely nothing in the way of offense. You blew all your stat points on con, and you didn't even take epic weapon focus or epic prowess. Actually, now that I look at it, do my eyes deceive me or is there actually no weapon focus at all? You have improved power attack, so at least you'll be able to do a little damage, but not nearly enough to matter when you're relegated to nat 20s versus someone who hits you quite regularly (because of course you have to lose the imp evasion to go into power attack). You didn't even take weapon spec...
So when you do get hit, fairly regularly, the elemental damage, which you have no resistance to, will whittle you away to nothingness while you hope for natural 20s and hit for very low damage. And your feats... an epic feat for 20 hp? More than once? Perfect health? You're basically just a giant meatball. What's the point of all that hp if all it does is prolong death while you sit there wishing you could hit?
Sorry to tear into it, but come on. I don't know much about this pale drake build, but I'd be willing to guess it wins hands down. _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
Quote: Posted 03/01/05 19:59:48 (GMT) -- KingHarbromm Why is it everyone challenges MY build? Do they doubt my prowess?
*snicker*
That's funny. Did you type that with a straight face? Did you puff out your chest when you wrote it?
Sounds like a typical cheesy line from a Van Damme movie.
Thanks, I owe you one! K. _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
Comments like that are obviously made by those who don't understand how Dev. Crit works. So, sit down children and you just might learn something.
A devestating critical is made by a character with said epic feat landing a critical hit and then the person hit by said feat failing a fortitude saving throw.
Let's look at this step by step.
First, you'll have to hit the epitome of defense. That's probably going to take a 20 since his biggest ability is high AC. Since a 20 is always a hit, you have a 1 in 20 chance of this happening. Those are pretty good odds.
Second, you have to confirm a critical. This means you make another attack roll. If this one hits, you score a critical! But unlike the previous one, 20s are not always hits here. Take this example: Hurgan has an AC of 60. Bill the Torm Guy has a +40 to hit. That means Bill the Torm Guy would have a 1 in 400 chance to critical Hurgan. Now, if Hurgan's AC were 61 (meaning Bill the Torm Guy technically needs a 21 to hit Hurgan) there is now a 0% chance of scoring a critical hit against the mighty dwarf.
If you'd actually looked at my build, you'd realise that his highest attack is made at +63. That's without any magical items involved whatsoever. So he can definitely score a Dev Crit against Hurgan. If you let Hurgan's AC be 61, which tbh, it won't ever be, without some super massive armour of godliness, then my build has a 95% chance of hitting Hurgan on his first attack per round. Even his second attack (+58) is likely to hit. It can only fail if he rolls a 1 or a 2, so it has a 90% chance of hitting. The odds don't look so good for Hurgan now.
In fact, even if Hurgan has 61 AC, it won't be staying that high for long. My build can use Curse Song (-5AC) and Taunt (-6AC) to bring it all the way down to 50. My build's 4th attack per round is made at +48, so even if he rolls a 2 for that attack, he still hits. That gives each of the 4 (or 5, if he's hasted) attacks per round a 95% chance of hitting.
Quote: Now, for that saving throw. Devastaing criticals are usually in the 40s if I'm not mistaken. I will give you a save against a DC of 50 since your Torm Guy is a one trick pony. Hurgan's saving throw is about +45 if not +50.
In short, if you even CAN crit him, you'd need a miracle to have the dev. crit work.
King Harbromm
My build is far from a one trick pony, but even so, his Dev Crit DC is 49. Again, that's with no magical items whatsoever. As for Hurgan's Fortitude save, I can't see it being as high as 50 unless you have some serious bonuses from items. The maximum base save (ie. regardless of bonuses from stats, CoT levels, Divine Grace / Dark Blessing, items, etc.) at level 40, for any character, is 24, IIRC. Add +10 from Hurgan's Con bonus and +6 from saving throw feats, and you have a save of 40. That means that Hurgan has a 60% chance of saving against my build's Dev Crit. That's much better odds than I thought he'd have, but it's not going to do him much good. My build has a 45% chance of threatening a critical, and a 95% of landing it, given that it's been threatened. So my build has a 42.75% of landing a Devastating Critical with EVERY ATTACK. As there's nothing Hurgan can do to harm my build, I don't have to worry about doing anything except standing there and swinging, getting as many attacks in as possible. Judging from those figures, I'd be surprised if Hurgan can last more than two rounds one-on-one against my build.
Quote: Why is it everyone challenges MY build? Do they doubt my prowess? Why isn't anyone arguing about how weak the Pale Drake is?
It could be that your build revolves around magical items and DR to be effective, while the Pale Drake has massive AC and immunity to crits, not to mention better saves against casters. Give the Pale Drake the amount of magical items your build uses and see which one's the best at survival.
A couple of comments:
For the author:
You really should have provided the naked end stats.
Quote: Posted 03/02/05 11:55:12 (GMT) -- Herbie Shimmer My build can use Curse Song (-5AC) and Taunt (-6AC)
1. Did you test the curse song effect? I'm in no way sure but I don't belive that PM levels adds to the Bard song level just as I don't think it increases the power of the Wizards familiar - as I said I don't know that but I assume so!!!
2. Note he has maxed his concentration skill and has 30 in CON without items so your taunt skill has to be insane to make the taunt work on him.
Btw. I'm mostly commenting on this because I'm currently playing on a PW with a buld that's kinda similar but with some more Monk and fighter levels and more STR based - I will only take CON to 21 to get the epic DR feats.
You really should have provided the naked end stats.
Quote: Posted 03/02/05 11:55:12 (GMT) -- Herbie Shimmer My build can use Curse Song (-5AC) and Taunt (-6AC)
1. Did you test the curse song effect? I'm in no way sure but I don't belive that PM levels adds to the Bard song level just as I don't think it increases the power of the Wizards familiar - as I said I don't know that but I assume so!!!
When I was talking about my build, I meant the Avatar of Torm's Righteous Strength build, which doesn't have any PM levels.
Quote: 2. Note he has maxed his concentration skill and has 30 in CON without items so your taunt skill has to be insane to make the taunt work on him.
Fair point. Didn't see that. Although it's very unlikely his AC will actually be high enough for me to have to use Taunt.
I've been wanting to post this a while but have never gotten the motivation to write it up. Since I was helping a guy on another board find a good defensive build, I posted it and copied it here. Behold Hurgan Ironshield, the epitome of defense.
Fighter 8/Monk 2/Dwarven Defender 26 Epic Toughness I, Great Constitution I
Fighter 8/Monk 2/Dwarven Defender 29 Epic Toughness II
Fighter 8/Monk 2/Dwarven Defender 30 Epic Toughness III
The highlights of this build you ask? AC that is in the stratosphere due to IE. DR 30/-. Total immunity to all poisons and diseases. Your saves are astronomical. And evasion makes you immune to most damage spells. Your fortitude save is MORE than high enough for any Devastating Critical hit (if they can even crit you) and your Deflect Arrows will help some against those pesky AAs.
Now for gear. Try this out.
Hammer - Bonus Damage (You won't hit often, so make each hit count!) Armor - AC Bonus Shield - AC Bonus Helmet - Regeneration (Possibly the Crown of Thorns?) Amulet - Natural Armor Rings - Regeneration Gloves - Epic Discipline Cloak - Deflection Bonus (Makes up for no Ring of Protection) Boots - Dodge Bonus (Sun Soul adds more AC than Haste. Since you're a monk, you can wear them.)
This will give you your HIGH AC and you'll NEVER be knocked down. The 13 regeneration is over the top. Most damage is going to be reduced by 30/- anyway, knowing that you get 13 back each round makes you nigh unstoppable.
By the way, HP for this build: 1016
I've used this guy on many a PvP server. Once you get the gear and some regeration it's on. These are no buffs, so they're active 24-7 - much unlike those silly clerics. A good strategy vs. offensive clerics is to throw on IE and weather the storm. Once the buffs wear out, turn on your Defensive Stance or maybe Improved Power Attack and beat them down. Against mages, you can literally laugh at them while they expend their ENTIRE spell set against you. You'll usually walk away with at LEAST half of your HP thanks to evasion and DR 30/-.
The downside is that you'll have a hard time finding people to fight. You can't hit much, so you need to optimize your damage per hit. Even when you can hit, you'll do about 15 damage each hit on average depending on your weapon. That'll mean a LONG battle!
Hope you enjoy, I know I love it.
King Harbromm
Your BASE AC =10 + 9 (armor) +3 (tower shield) +2 (armor skin) -1 (wis)+1 (DEX) +4(tumble AC) gives you a grand total of 29 AC. Which is ok but hardly earth shattering Fort save = 15 (base) +10 (epic levels)+10 (stat bonus) = 35.
Id love to see a fight however between this build an an ED /SC5 build with the level of equipment you have available. The fight would last a long time but I would doubt if you would get one or two hits in before the fight was over.
Syrath
EDIT BTW the builds I usually post are also gear dependent. However I wouldnt say your build is the most defensive build there is in either a low or high magic world. I also still think its a reasonable build.
Edited By syrath1001 on 03/04/05 10:29
Hey syrath, I don't think monks actually _lose_ ac from wisdom, the same way a pali wouldn't actually lose saves for a sub-10 charisma score. And since he's wearing armor, the monk ac bonus doesn't work at all, so it wouldn't matter either way. That gives him 30 ac, assuming of course he actually took tumble, which isn't actually mentioned under the skills list, so it may in fact be only 26 mundane. _________________ Have I mentioned I hate IGMS?
I think people are making some very valid points to the build at hand. Your comments speak of major item enhancements, but as soon as you bring those into play, you have to argue they are fairly nullified by opponents having the same quality items. I offered you a counter to my Defending Champion build for instance where I gave up pure AC DR defense for higher saves and a lot better offense. For instance my charracter has a naked fort save of 37. It has the same AC potential you have, so who will have the better chance to save vs a dev crit? MY build has overwhelming crit as well as EDR 3 I sacrificed a couple hundred hitpoints, but anythign that is beating your DR and AC in your build is going to beat you down easily because you sacrificed so much offense. People are trying to help you improve on the build, yet you are very resistant.
For a link to my comparative build: Click Here
Be more open and less arrogant in your posts about peoples criticism and you may be amazed how helpful some comments made here really are. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Hey guys,
I haven't been hiding from this debate, I just haven't been getting notification by e-mail like I asked it to do. So I just stopped in and saw all the replies. I apologize.
So, anywho, now for the excuse this IS going to sound like a copout.
I just moved from California to North Carolina and all my stuff is in storage. The computer I'm using for this right now is my mom's. It's some 400 Mhz POS so I can't really play NWN to get all of his stats and stuff. I did, however, post a goodbye note in the general discussion forum long before this debate telling people of my move, so you can check the validity of this there.
As for countering the debate, I'm actually not going to right now until I can get my game and list EXACTLY what gear I used and the EXACT stats for everyone. Here's where my ***iness stems from:
It all started at level 25 or so. I was fighting all of the paladin builds that use the divine might stuff and winning. I had beaten mages just as I described - by waiting until every spell they could cast (exempting IGMS) was cast and beating them down. I had killed clerics using the same method - by waiting for buffs to wear off. Monks gave me the most trouble. They got SO many attacks per round they rolled a lot of 20s Plus, with their 50% concealment thing, I rarely hit them. After I got DR, though, I beat them with no trouble. Rogues were easy because HiPS was outlawed. And the ONLY build I couldn't beat with little trouble was some silly shifter build that was the lich form. I couldn't damage him AT ALL. But likewise.
So, I'm not trying to say that NO MATTER WHAT in ANY CIRCUMSTANCE this build will win. I'm just saying that you will have relative success against most builds using this build.
I will, as soon as possible, list the exact stats. But be patient. The reason my stuff is in storage is because I'm going to Marine Corps boot camp on the 14th of March. So, it may be a while.
Understandingly,
King Harbromm
about this build:
1. First of all, with your AB it will be hard for you to hit even a mage. And I mean it. You have to put some Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Prowess. Take off Expertise and Improved Expertise, POwer atttack and Improved Power Attack (if theyre not required for the build). You shouldnt have even thought of picking them. With your low AB, how can you even think of using these feats since theyre gonna low down your already low AB
2. I would let Constitution at 21 (just to get the DR) and put all other ability bonus on STR to raise your AB.
So, in my opinion you should change these feats -> for these ones: Expertise -> Strong Soul Improved Expertise -> Weapon Focus Blind Fight -> Weapon Specialization Power Attack -> Blind Fight Imp. Power Attack -> Epic Weapon Focus Epic Will -> Great Strength Perfect Health -> Epic Prowess Great Constitution I -> Great Strength
Ive just put 2 ability bonus on CON and all the rest on STR. Your final abilities will be STR: 24 and CON: 21
See that Ive kept almost all feats related to saves (fort, reflex, will). The only exceptions are Epic Will and Perfect Health. But Ive also add Strong Soul at the first level.
I havent tested these modifications yet, but (if they work), you will have a much better AB and damage. Your life will decrease, off course. And your saves will be almost the same.
Just to realize how difficult it would be to hit with your original stats Ive made all these modifications while fighting a moderate Prismatic dragon. It took me at least 10 minutes to bring down a moderate Prismatic Dragon.
I would like to see the Drake versus my Bard16/PM16/WM8 which is very similar. I say it would be a long slow battle.
The easy difference is your whole build is based on spells. I mean, after a while even an extended Bull's Strength will wear off. Meanwhile, my character will still have DR 30/-, Regeneration 13, and saves out the yin yang. Plus, he's practically immune to crits considering you need to actually be able to hit with a 20 to confirm the critical. So, I would take my build over those magic dependant builds anyday.
. And you kept talking about items. Like this regeneration 13 thing....
I don't want to rag on your build, because apparently you're quite sensitive about it, but I don't understand how it has such "insane ac." It's going to have 10 ac more than every other build that wears full armor and a tower shield, which, frankly, is hardly spectacular. And what he gives up for that is even more ab. Let's say you're wearing +5 items. 10(base)+2(armor skin)+10(imp evasion)+11(tower shield/full plate)+25(items)+1(dex)=59. 45 AB mundane is pretty standard. Top that off with a +5 weapon, and they're hitting you with half of their attacks. You didn't mention tumble... did you have enough int to take it or not? That might pop you up to 63 at least.