This character was designed to be a good thief as well as a melle fighter (in the case the pick pocket is attemped =p). Unfortunately, I wasnt able to raise some skills like spot, open lock, set/disable traps.
Monk 18/Fighter 21/Rogue 1 Alignment: Any Lawful Race: Any
*d=discipline / t=trumble / m=move silent / h=hide **You can pick another light weapon, I have choosen rapier because of the critical range ***Not important for the build itself. ****You can spend these skill points wherever you want. I put it on PP because I wanted to make a thief.
Naked stats: - AC: 34 - SR: 28 - BA: 26 - fortitude:24 - reflex:31 - will: 20 - HP: 312 (no rerolls it would be better if maximized)
*I guess there are more attacks per round, but thats all the game shows. **This ABs refers to 2 short swords, so maybe there will be a difference to rapiers ABs (nothing big)
PROS: - Can switch between 2 types of damage (blund/slash) using quickslots - Nice AC. Equiped can get 70+ - Very fast. Put haste on him and you will fly (good for thieves =) - Has a good number of attacks per round. He also has Cleave and Circle Kick - Can use buffs and attacking/defensive spells (from scrolls) - Has an average hide/move silent skill. At some servers thats quite useful - easy to play from the beginning - PP rulez
CONS: - not an high HP - not high fortitude an a low reflex save - not an high AB (but equipped and with buffs thats not a problem) - low damage (but can be raise with items and buffs too) - for a real thief, he misses the lack of open locks, set/disarm traps and spot
This is the first character Ive made. It probably has many stuff that could be changed to develop it and make it stronger. So that why I ask for your opnion.
Edited By griphook on 06/04/05 17:39
Quote: Posted 02/17/05 23:41:43 (GMT) -- cakerj
The Ugly FastFingers (by cakerj)
This character was designed to be a good thief as well as a melle fighter (in the case the pick pocket is attemped =p). Unfortunately, I wasnt able to raise some skills like spot, open lock, set/disable traps.
Monk 18/Fighter 21/Rogue 1 Alignment: Any Lawful Race: Any
*d=discipline / t=trumble / m=move silent / h=hide **You can pick another light weapon, I have choosen rapier because of the critical range ***Not important for the build itself. ****You can spend these skill points wherever you want. I put it on PP because I wanted to make a thief.
Naked stats: - AC: 34 - SR: 28 - BA: 26 - fortitude:24 - reflex:31 - will: 20 - HP: 312 (no rerolls it would be better if maximized)
*I guess there are more attacks per round, but thats all the game shows. **This ABs refers to 2 short swords, so maybe there will be a difference to rapiers ABs (nothing big)
PROS: - Can switch between 2 types of damage (blund/slash) using quickslots - Nice AC. Equiped can get 70+ - Very fast. Put haste on him and you will fly (good for thieves =) - Has a good number of attacks per round. He also has Cleave and Circle Kick - Can use buffs and attacking/defensive spells (from scrolls) - Has an average hide/move silent skill. At some servers thats quite useful - easy to play from the beginning - PP rulez
CONS: - not an high HP - not high fortitude an a low reflex save - not an high AB (but equipped and with buffs thats not a problem) - low damage (but can be raise with items and buffs too) - for a real thief, he misses the lack of open locks, set/disarm traps and spot
This is the first character Ive made. It probably has many stuff that could be changed to develop it and make it stronger. So that why I ask for your opnion.
Ok, there are several changes you could make to this build to make it stronger.
For one thing, you have a few feats that are virtually useless in NWN, such as Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Circle Kick. I probably wouldn't bother with these.
Toughness and Blind-Fight would both be useful additions to your build. As for Improved 2-weapon Fighting, Disarm, and Improved Disarm, I would move these into pre-epic levels (i.e. by level 20) as they are not Epic feats.
I am assuming you are taking 18 Monk levels for Empty Body, and I suppose this is reasonable because it would provide a concealment bonus. However, I don't really see the necessity of taking 21 Fighter levels.
If I were you, I would probably take more Rogue levels (at least 13), and pick up Epic Dodge. With Epic Dodge plus the concealment from Empty Body, with your already high AC, you should be very difficult to hit.
Also, I'm not sure I see the point of ending with 33 Dex. Generally speaking, I try to end my stats on even #s, as you only get a bonus to your skills/abilities for every 2 points of any stat.
BTW, there is a -4 penalty to AB for dual-wielding Rapiers, as opposed to a -2 penalty for shortswords. There is of course no penalty for unarmed, but then you don't get quite as many attacks.
Rather than Rapiers, I would suggest dual-wielding Kamas. Kamas use the Monk's attack table, meaning that if you dual-wield them you can get up to 10 attacks per round with Haste and Flurry of Blows.
Crispy.. I just have to say this once and for all.. PLEASE stop quoting the whole build.. we know what build you are refering to since you are posting right after it.. there is no other build mentioned.. its the build mentioned in the subject heading. No offense. Thanks.
edit: Oh, and if you do it to just see the post while you are critiquing it, just open a new window or delete the quote after you're done writing.
Edited By DeathScytheDuo on 02/18/05 04:02
Quote: Posted 02/18/05 01:07:20 (GMT) -- CrispyCritter For one thing, you have a few feats that are virtually useless in NWN, such as Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, and Circle Kick. I probably wouldn't bother with these.
I may try this out.
Quote: Posted 02/18/05 01:07:20 (GMT) -- CrispyCritter Toughness and Blind-Fight would both be useful additions to your build. As for Improved 2-weapon Fighting, Disarm, and Improved Disarm, I would move these into pre-epic levels (i.e. by level 20) as they are not Epic feats.
You gotta see that they are from fighter feat list that do not include epic feats. correct me if I am wrong.
Quote: Posted 02/18/05 01:07:20 (GMT) -- CrispyCritter I am assuming you are taking 18 Monk levels for Empty Body, and I suppose this is reasonable because it would provide a concealment bonus. However, I don't really see the necessity of taking 21 Fighter levels.
Ya, empty bood. And took many lvls of fighter to get feats. I tried to put many of them melee attack feats I wanted (as I made a character that could use two kinda of weapons) from fighters feat list.
Quote: Posted 02/18/05 01:07:20 (GMT) -- CrispyCritter Also, I'm not sure I see the point of ending with 33 Dex. Generally speaking, I try to end my stats on even #s, as you only get a bonus to your skills/abilities for every 2 points of any stat.
Ya, youre right. Its because Im new on this character building thing.
Quote: Posted 02/18/05 01:07:20 (GMT) -- CrispyCritter BTW, there is a -4 penalty to AB for dual-wielding Rapiers, as opposed to a -2 penalty for shortswords. There is of course no penalty for unarmed, but then you don't get quite as many attacks.
Rather than Rapiers, I would suggest dual-wielding Kamas. Kamas use the Monk's attack table, meaning that if you dual-wield them you can get up to 10 attacks per round with Haste and Flurry of Blows.
My first idea was to make with kamas, but I have choosen rapiers because of crit range. but Im gonna test with kamas.
thanks for the opinion, I will sure try new things out.
On dualing Kama's. You can hold any other weapon in your offhand without affecting your attack rate; I would suggest a Kukri or dagger depending on stats. Why? Kukri has a very high crit range; and is classed Light so no -4 loss to bab BUT you will need the Exotic feat to use it; dagger is also light, so no BAB penalty but you can use it without extra feats, iirc.
Quote: Posted 02/18/05 13:13:01 (GMT) -- Khandahr
On dualing Kama's. You can hold any other weapon in your offhand without affecting your attack rate; I would suggest a Kukri or dagger depending on stats. Why? Kukri has a very high crit range; and is classed Light so no -4 loss to bab BUT you will need the Exotic feat to use it; dagger is also light, so no BAB penalty but you can use it without extra feats, iirc.
Light weapons also include short swords, hand axes, maces, and hammers - the latter two are nice to put in the off-hand since they give a different damage type (bludgeoning) than your primary hand.
Cakerj - you say race is "any" but then you take two feats at first level (Monk 1) - I believe this can only be done with Human as race. Every other race would only get one feat at level 1/Monk 1.
Also, definitely drop Circle Kick as it is bugged and frequently drops you from combat mode during fights.
And lastly, did you max Tumble? It's hard to discern from you your post. I'd be sure to max Tumble before Pick Pocket. And maxing Tumble means you really have no need for Dodge and Mobility (as pointed out earlier).
And finally , if you drop Circle Kick, Dodge, and Mobility, it looks like you can take all three two-weapon fighting feats by level 6 without losing anything, and then start picking your weapon specialties.
Kaliban. _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
Edited By Kaliban99 on 02/19/05 14:32
The first level possible to take Improved Two Weapon Fighting is level 9 with a full BAB class (fighter, ranger, ect.).
Quote: Posted 02/19/05 14:37:41 (GMT) -- Aligory
The first level possible to take Improved Two Weapon Fighting is level 9 with a full BAB class (fighter, ranger, ect.).
Doh! That's right. Thanks Aligory. With that in mind, he could choose Weapon Focus on Monk 6 in preparation for Weapon Spec...
K. _________________ Check out the Epic Character Builders Guild Click Here Test your new builds in this mod: Click Here
Sorry for posting only now. I had a time away from the pc and now Im back. Thank you all for the suggestions youve made (almost all of tehm right =p).
Cakerj - you say race is "any" but then you take two feats at first level (Monk 1) - I believe this can only be done with Human as race. Every other race would only get one feat at level 1/Monk 1.
Thats right, havent payed attention to that when I made the build.
And lastly, did you max Tumble? It's hard to discern from you your post. I'd be sure to max Tumble before Pick Pocket. And maxing Tumble means you really have no need for Dodge and Mobility (as pointed out earlier).
Yes, I did max trumble. But I dont get the point of if you have maxed trumble, Dodge and Mobility get useless. If anyone could explain me that, it would be nice.
And do you think I should try out: 2 kamas or 2 shorts swords (or another light weapon)?
thanks
Quote: Posted 05/04/05 21:57:49 (GMT) -- cakerj
Sorry for posting only now. I had a time away from the pc and now Im back. Thank you all for the suggestions youve made (almost all of tehm right =p).
Cakerj - you say race is "any" but then you take two feats at first level (Monk 1) - I believe this can only be done with Human as race. Every other race would only get one feat at level 1/Monk 1.
Thats right, havent payed attention to that when I made the build.
And lastly, did you max Tumble? It's hard to discern from you your post. I'd be sure to max Tumble before Pick Pocket. And maxing Tumble means you really have no need for Dodge and Mobility (as pointed out earlier).
Yes, I did max trumble. But I dont get the point of if you have maxed trumble, Dodge and Mobility get useless. If anyone could explain me that, it would be nice.
And do you think I should try out: 2 kamas or 2 shorts swords (or another light weapon)?
thanks
Welcome back!
As I understand it, with high enough Tumble skill, you don't need the feats Dodge and Mobility (unless they're prerequisites essential to the build eg. to go Shadow Dancer).
For weapons I would stick with a kama in your right hand since this allows you to use Flurry and the monk attack tables. For the offhand, I would say use whatever light weapon that you find most effective at the time, per the situation. If you're fighting skeletons, wield a mace. If you have a sweet dagger then use that weapon. Of course all of this is contingent upon you choosing Weapon Focus/Spec: Kama instead of Unarmed.
Wiser ones than me will soon answer....
Kaliban. _________________ "Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
About that tumble thingy.
Dodge is good to have even when you max tumble. Dodge gains you +1 AC and it applies as well when you fight 1v1. +1AC can make a great deal of difference!
Weapons...hmm well Kaliban said it. Personal preference and what is best should always be kept in mind when choosing your weapon ^^
If the server has the same basic dmg on every single weapon, then i would take either kukris or kamas.
You could take Harper Scout instead of 4 fighter/1 Rogue at the end.This will make it possible to take more great DEX feats (I know that wasn't your intention )
Dodge is good to have even when you max tumble. Dodge gains you +1 AC and it applies as well when you fight 1v1. +1AC can make a great deal of difference!
Dodge give you +1AC against Attacks of Oppotunity only. With max tumble, a melee fighter will never get attacks of opportunity from moving around (actually, once you have tumble of 14 you won't). You'll only get it from something like drinking a potion in combat. That's why people generally consider Dodge (as well as mobility) unnecessary if you have high tumble; You'll virtually never get any use out of having it.
Dodge is good to have even when you max tumble. Dodge gains you +1 AC and it applies as well when you fight 1v1. +1AC can make a great deal of difference!
Dodge give you +1AC against Attacks of Oppotunity only.
Steve
Dodge gives you a +1 AC against your current target OR your current attacker. So it affects more than AoO.
For example you are fighting one on one, you get +1 against your target.
You are attacking your target (who is for some reason not attacking back) and you are attacked by someone else you get +1 AC against that someone else. It applies to one target only.
Quote: Posted 05/05/05 02:59:31 (GMT) -- Kaliban99 For weapons I would stick with a kama in your right hand since this allows you to use Flurry and the monk attack tables. For the offhand, I would say use whatever light weapon that you find most effective at the time, per the situation.
I haven't personally tested it, but I doubt you could use flurry of blows if you have a non-kama weapon in your offhand. I'm also skeptical that you would retain your monk attack table in your main hand if you have a non-kama weapon in your offhand. I haven't tested it at all, but my instinct is that you lose your monk attack table entirely as long as you are wielding a weapon other than kama.
You attack schedule with short swords is a bit wrong as listed. It would be 39/34/29/24 in the main hand, and 39/34 in the offhand (you gave yourself an extra attack at 29 instead of one at 24). With rapiers, it's 37/32/27/22 and 37/32. That's honestly quite low for a level 40 melee build. The fact that rapiers have a broader crit range is largely irrelevant if your AB isn't high enough to capitalize on that. You can't crit on a 15 if you can't hit without rolling a 20. You may as well stick with kamas for slightly higher AB and the monk attack schedule.
Dodge is good to have even when you max tumble. Dodge gains you +1 AC and it applies as well when you fight 1v1. +1AC can make a great deal of difference!
Dodge give you +1AC against Attacks of Oppotunity only.
Steve
Dodge gives you a +1 AC against your current target OR your current attacker. So it affects more than AoO.
For example you are fighting one on one, you get +1 against your target.
You are attacking your target (who is for some reason not attacking back) and you are attacked by someone else you get +1 AC against that someone else. It applies to one target only.
For weapons I would stick with a kama in your right hand since this allows you to use Flurry and the monk attack tables. For the offhand, I would say use whatever light weapon that you find most effective at the time, per the situation. If you're fighting skeletons, wield a mace. If you have a sweet dagger then use that weapon. Of course all of this is contingent upon you choosing Weapon Focus/Spec: Kama instead of Unarmed.
Wiser ones than me will soon answer....
Kaliban.
If a put a non-kama weapon in my offhand, wouldnt I lose the advantages from Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Weapon Focus and Improved Weapon Specialization that Ive picked up for kama?
another question: Is it a good idea to specialize(WF,WS,IWF,IWS) in unarmed attack AND kama, or should I pick only one to get these feats on?
third question: What are (from WF, WS, IWF, IWS) the most importants feats to pick? Is there anyone of these that are useless, or almost useless?
Edited By cakerj on 05/05/05 22:09
Quote: If a put a non-kama weapon in my offhand, wouldnt I lose the advantages from Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Improved Weapon Focus and Improved Weapon Specialization that Ive picked up for kama?
Plus you wouldn't be able to use flurry of blows, and (this is a guess) may lose your monk AB progression for both hands. I would use kamas in both hands. Incidentally, the feats are Epic Weapon Focus and Epic Weapon Specialization, not Improved.
Quote: another question: Is it a good idea to specialize(WF,WS,IWF,IWS) in unarmed attack AND kama, or should I pick only one to get these feats on?
It's not a bad idea to have if for both if you can fit it in your feats.
Quote: third question: What are (from WF, WS, IWF, IWS) the most importants feats to pick? Is there anyone of these that are useless, or almost useless?
None of them are useless, especially not for this build. You have a lowish AB and low strength. You need all the AB boosts (Weapon Focus/Epic Weapon Focus) and damage boosts (Weapon Specialization/Epic Weapon Specialization) you can get.
Steve
Thanks all you guys for the help. Ive recently made i new build based on that one (keeping him essence - a melee fighter woth rogue skills and able to use scrolls) with your suggestions. I will post it as soon as I pass it all to the PC, maybe later today or tomorrow (Im very tired now =p) and hope you can help me again to fix the problems it may have.
cakerj
Here it is the new version of Ugly Fastfingers:
, if you drop Circle Kick, Dodge, and Mobility, it looks like you can take all three two-weapon fighting feats by level 6 without losing anything, and then start picking your weapon specialties.
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