Inspired by the famous 'Wheel of Time' books by Robert Jordan, this character is a true master of his blade, in or out of heavy armor. He is able to delve into his deep Ko'di (the Oneness) meditation, which strips him bare of emotion, yet heightens his senses.
- Playable from level 1 - 40 Whether in PvP or PvM, you're deadly. You can make it without problem from level 1-40, and still be frightening at the highest level.
Advantages: - High AB With 22 weaponmaster levels, and huge strength, if you can’t hit it, pretty much no one can.
- High Damage You have huge strength, both weapon specialisations (normal and epic). You’re using a Greatsword, which means you get 1.5 times strength damage. As far as melee characters go, your damage output is up there with the best of ‘em.
- Good HPs You’re not a Dwarven Defender or Barbarian, but you’re not lacking in the HPs department either.
- Flexibility If you can find the right gear (high DEX and WIS), you can remove your full plate completely, and walk around in monk clothing and still stand toe-to-toe with a knight in shining armor. For a strength based greatsword wielder, that’s exceptional. You’re a master of your weapon and your body, in armor or out of it.
- High detection With maxed out Spot and Epic Skill Focus: Spot, only the most godly sneaks are going to pass you by.
- Highish Fortitude You have Epic Fortitude, and while you’re no Paladin/CoT, with reasonable gear (Rings of Fortitude +5), you’ll be able to withstand nearly all potential Dev Crits, unless you roll 1.
- High Devastating Critical DC You’re only 1 short of the highest DC for a reasonable balanced human weaponmaster (non RDD).
Disadvantages - Mediumish AC While you have among the best AC a strength-based two-handed weaponmaster can achieve, you don’t have a tower shield to carry about. That’s the option chosen, for the sake of dishing out horrendous amounts of damage.
- Knockdown If you’re a fan of Knockdown and Improved Knockdown, you only get these important feats late in the levelling progression – level 37.
- Critical Reliant You’re a true weaponmaster, and with all high level weaponmasters, if you’re facing a critical immune creature, life becomes difficult. That said, you have huge strength and the bonus strength damage from using a double-handed weapon to counteract that a fair bit.
- Poor Will save Like most melee characters, you have a weakness on your will save. You have Still Mind, which gives you +2 against mind affecting spells, but you still need to watch those Will save spells.
Edited By griphook on 04/21/05 23:34
Race: Human Alignment: Any Lawful Build: Fighter 12/Weaponmaster 22/Monk 6
Starting Stats: STR 16 DEX 13 CON 16 WIS 8 INT 13 CHR 8
Level 14: Fighter Skill Points: Discipline 1, Save Rest
Level 15: Fighter Skill Points: Discipline 1, Save Rest Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave
Level 16: Fighter Stat Point: STR Skill Points: Discipline 1, Save Rest
Level 17: Fighter Skill Points: Discipline 1, Save Rest Feats: Improved Expertise (For the AC you wanted)
Level 18: Weaponmaster Skill Points: Discipline 1, Spot 5, Save Rest Feats: Blind-Fight (For a better chance against concealed enemies. You could take Disarm - you gain an advantage for using a large weapon. You could take Improved Power Attack for high-HP, high DR, easy to hit enemies. You could also take Great Fortitude to aid in avoiding Dev Crit)
Level 32: Monk Stat Point: STR Skill Points: Discipline 1, Tumble 5, Save Rest
Level 33: Weaponmaster Skill Points: Discipline 1, Spot 2, Save Rest Feats: Epic Skill Focus: Spot (This can be especially useful if you fear powerful sneaks)
Level 38: Monk Skill Points: Discipline 1, Save Rest
Level 39: Monk Skill Points: Discipline 1, Save Rest Feat: Epic Fortitude (Greater protection against Dev Crit)
Level 40: Weaponmaster Stat Point: STR Skill Points: Discipline 1, Spot 4, Skill Point Dump Feat: Epic Prowess _________________ If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips. -Birgitte
Wheel of Time - The Third Age
Edited By Avendesora84 on 04/21/05 01:34
Vital Statistics:
Final Stats: STR 30 DEX 13 CON 16 INT 13 WIS 8 CHR 8
Fortitude: 27 Reflex 21 Will 15
Naked AC: 22 Max HPs: 548
Naked Unarmed AB: 41/38/35/32/29/26 Unarmed AB (w/ +12 STR): 47/44/41/38/35/32
Final Skill Points Discipline 43 Spot 43 Tumble 40
You also have 50 skill points to do with as you please throughout levelling. I advise ending up with something like this.
Taunt 21 Open Lock 1 Disable Trap 1 Heal 4
Taunt is an underrated skill, and many melee characters do not take Concentration to combat it. The others could really be anything you want.
Guide to Tweaking
Basic Notes: If altering this build, do *not* add monk before level 20 – you will lower your BAB. Make sure you have a final Monk level at level 37 to maximise tumble. Otherwise, change levelling order as you wish.
If you are able to get high DEX and WIS (Monk AC bonus), and something like +5 Monk Clothing, you may find you have a higher AC than if you were wearing +5 Full Plate Armor! Of course, you’d need to balance that with trying to maximise your STR, and to a slightly lesser extent, CON.
Alternatives:
+1AB and one extra feat If you were desperate for one extra feat and +1AB to this build, make it a Fighter 12/WM 25/Monk 3. This reduces the concept of using a monk at all.
Improved Evasion and bonus Speed If you wanted Improved Evasion, you could make it a Fighter 12/WM 19/Monk 9 - Monk Speed would be much more significant in this build.
Higher Skilled, Sneaky Dev Critter Start with 14 Intelligence, and start out with 15 Strength. Instead of pouring points into Spot, save them for your monk levels. On your monk levels, max out hide and move silently. Take Epic Skill Focus: Hide, and Epic Skill Focus: Move Silently. Don’t take Epic Skill Focus: Spot.
You should end up with a character that can step out of the shadows, and devastating critical, with slightly less strength, and more vulnerable to sneaks.
DAM!!
I must say, this is one of the most well documented builds i have seen in a while!
Grats! nice build to boot.
Peace
Hello Avendesora!! I was looking for a build that uses Greatsword and I find this at the first page.
Its an amazing build!!! And like a true Blademaster in Randland, he dont use a shield which make this build great to play on the WoT server.
Now I dont know if im gonna go with this build or a Fighter//Paladin//CoT, The later build gives you crazy saves. Like 60+, but it dont have any high AB, and no Dev.
Gaahh!! *CONFUSED*
// ps, you maybe dont remember me but anyway, good build.
Edited By Gekkou on 04/22/05 06:10
indeed, i may have found my remake... with some tweaks, make is a BS sword, and lower con to raise wis or cha for rp reasons... Thanks maybe a harper/fighter/wepmaster build if you know one? hm, and would taking monk at lvl one alter it horribly?
Edited By Draith Kaido on 04/22/05 12:35
What's with you WoT people suddenly turning up here, hm? First Shyne, then Gekkou and now you Draith.
Thanks for the compliments.
Draith - adding Monk at level 1 will lower your BAB by a minimum of 1. Personally I fail to see the benefit of taking a Monk level at level 1. You get Evasion, but you can't get your Tumble to 5.
If you're hoping to rely on your fists using your Monk bonuses, while you'd have high AB and damage, you won't have the AC most Monks have. It could be fun to mess around with it in 'boxing'/brawling scenarios you might get into. But it's the sword this character's truly about.
Your Monk AC bonus is insignificant at pre-epic levels in this build. Can you really see yourself getting gear which will give you high str, dex, con and wisdom pre-epic? If so, then it's worth considering (although I still don't like losing the 1 to BAB 'unnecessarily'). If not...
I must stress that switching from plate to clothing might be a stretch or entirely feasible, depending on the module on which you play. However, *all* builds should take the context where they will be played into consideration.
Playing an awesome Shifter on a server that might have mind-blowing +20 gear will usually end up with the 'awesome' Shifter being disappointing. Playing a spiffy Shadowdancer somewhere everyone has True Seeing items will probably be the same.
Note: On our server, where gear usually tends to be +5 enhancement (with some small bonuses) at the maximum for most characters, switching to clothing would require good *faction* gear for it - like that for Epic Warder, supplemented by a bunch of potions or a DM awarded item. _________________ If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips. -Birgitte
Wheel of Time - The Third Age
Edited By Avendesora84 on 04/22/05 13:54
I'm just not creative enough to make my own build. lol . I love the build!
See ya later, Avvy!
Edited By shyne465 on 04/25/05 03:17
Some of us have lurked for some time Sasha. ~waves~
BTW for those of you who dont know Avendesora84 is one of the most thourough and intelligent players I have ever known. So I am not sirprised by he level of detail here. _________________ -Gwydion
Have you looked into shifting some levels around at all to get to level 9 monk and get improved evasion? A very excellent built regardless. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Quote: Posted 04/30/05 12:44:21 (GMT) -- Emrill
Have you looked into shifting some levels around at all to get to level 9 monk and get improved evasion? A very excellent built regardless.
This is covered in his "Alternatives" section:
Quote: Improved Evasion and bonus Speed If you wanted Improved Evasion, you could make it a Fighter 12/WM 19/Monk 9 - Monk Speed would be much more significant in this build.
Great build Avendesora84. I really like blending Monk with the warrior classes and not specialising in Kamas.
Thanks for posting. Kaliban. _________________ "Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
Awesome build. I have this up to level 16 on my high magic PW, and it is very good! 10-20 x3 crit rapier is what I am looking at right now with 34 AB.
My question is, how feasable would it be to change monk with rogue, assassin or shadowdancer? If my UMD is high enough, I should be able to use Monk only robes for the AC benefit plus I went towards a Dex build with this.
Pretty much the changes I made were:
Str- 14 Dex- 16 (max) Rapier
That is pretty much it. Thanks for a great build.
Some advantages of 4 Monk levels pre-epic are: +2 to all saves (you are concerned about low saves); also +2 versus mind sooner with Still Mind. You can start to max tumble sooner. You get Cleave and Evasion earlier, pretty usefull for a Melee build.
You lose 1 AB and have to defer some of your Feats until later, but worth it I would think.
I would take them at level 2,7,12,17 to keep your tumble maxed.
edited to add: It would also free up the level 15 Cleave Feat you have taken.
Edited By mphacon on 06/17/05 20:06
Forgive me for asking, but WTH is Still Mind? I never play Monks, but I've not seen this mentioned anywhere before in documentation or threads about Monks. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/18/05 00:54:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Forgive me for asking, but WTH is Still Mind? I never play Monks, but I've not seen this mentioned anywhere before in documentation or threads about Monks.
From the Grimoire
Quote: Still Mind Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Monk 3 Specifics: The character gains a +2 competence bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting spells. Use: Automatic
Cinn, perhaps you should look for this 'Grimoire' - perhaps you've heard of it? _________________ "Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
Quote: Posted 06/18/05 00:54:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Forgive me for asking, but WTH is Still Mind? I never play Monks, but I've not seen this mentioned anywhere before in documentation or threads about Monks.
From the Grimoire
Quote: Still Mind Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Monk 3 Specifics: The character gains a +2 competence bonus on all saving throws against mind-affecting spells. Use: Automatic
Cinn, perhaps you should look for this 'Grimoire' - perhaps you've heard of it?
Hmmm, perhaps I will, at that. Can't say I've ever heard of such a tome...
Thanks, Kal. All the times I've been through that bloody document and I've never noticed that feat. Of course, you know my view on Monks. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/17/05 20:03:35 (GMT) -- mphacon
Some advantages of 4 Monk levels pre-epic are: +2 to all saves (you are concerned about low saves); also +2 versus mind sooner with Still Mind. You can start to max tumble sooner. You get Cleave and Evasion earlier, pretty usefull for a Melee build.
You lose 1 AB and have to defer some of your Feats until later, but worth it I would think.
I would take them at level 2,7,12,17 to keep your tumble maxed.
edited to add: It would also free up the level 15 Cleave Feat you have taken.
Definitely an alternative to consider, and a good one at that.
To be honest though, a Fighter 10/WM 10 pre-epic shouldn't be having any real playability issues, so for me, the big attraction in your alternative is the higher saving throws. _________________ If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips. -Birgitte
Awesome build. I have this up to level 16 on my high magic PW, and it is very good! 10-20 x3 crit rapier is what I am looking at right now with 34 AB.
My question is, how feasable would it be to change monk with rogue, assassin or shadowdancer? If my UMD is high enough, I should be able to use Monk only robes for the AC benefit plus I went towards a Dex build with this.
Pretty much the changes I made were:
Str- 14 Dex- 16 (max) Rapier
That is pretty much it. Thanks for a great build.
Changing the monk class to something else, would be a significant alteration to this build, as would making this a Dexer (I'm not entirely sure that's what you've done though - it's not clear).
A Rapier-Wielding Weapon Finesse character, with Rogue, Assassin, SD is not what I was going for. If I was building something like that, I wouldn't go for most of the feats, skills, or ability bonuses in this build. It's something else entirely. _________________ If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips. -Birgitte
Wheel of Time - The Third Age
How well would this build if i where ti switch it too schim and shield??
There'd be no problem with that. This build could do reasonably well with pretty much any weapon.
In fact, it could be stronger (larger crit range, flexibility of using a shield or not when you have your Wisdom high or not), as long as you realise that:
a) A shield will lessen your stealth abilities (if you were going down that route), though you could simply equip it as soon as you came out of stealth. b) A shield will remove any bonus from Monk Wisdom AC - and this is where your choice really lies. Do you get more AC from Wisdom, or from the Shield? c) you'll lose the STR damage bonus on the greatsword. d) The difference on the base damage on the weapon isn't so important. STR (and other feats) are where you're going to get most of the damage from in epic levels. It would be a little more noticeable at lower levels.
The only reason I really went with the Greatsword in this build was that this was a response to a request for a Greatsword wielding Monk/WM, and also the fact that warriors in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time setting tend not to use shields, preferring other styles instead. _________________ If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your lips. -Birgitte
Wheel of Time - The Third Age
Edited By Avendesora84 on 09/26/05 14:47
Sorry to bring up a really, really, really, old topic, but will two rapiers be smart, or the dumbest thing in all eternity....
Quote: Posted 12/15/07 15:03 (GMT) -- Monk9292
Sorry to bring up a really, really, really, old topic, but will two rapiers be smart, or the dumbest thing in all eternity....
Well, the problem is, the build is very very feat hungry, and, to successfully dual wield, you'd probably want at least Two Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity feat at minimum (which, of course, doesn't include Improved Two Weapon Fighting feat). And, of course, to get those feat, dexterity ability have to be raised accordingly.
So that's two to three extra feat you'll have to throw into the build, and I really don't see how that can be accomplished within the criteria.
I have a build with a similar class split to this. Fighter 12/Monk 9/WM 19. It uses the two-bladed sword though. I would go for it if not using kamas.
I saw this and was intrigued. But I wanted a higher monk version of it. So I have a fighter 8/Monk 25/WM 7. If there's interest in it, I can post it. But it's quite similar in many ways. Still with the Greatsword. I have to say, this build concept is a lot of fun, well thought out, and effective while still being a great RP concept. One of my favorites on here I've seen.
Sorry to bring up this thread again since it's really old, but if I wanted to go for 25 WM and 3 monk, what would be the changes and where should I substitute monk levels for WM levels? _________________ "He was happily married.. but his wife wasn't"-Victor Borge
Quote: Posted 06/23/08 16:10 (GMT) -- Honer Nerd
Sorry to bring up this thread again since it's really old, but if I wanted to go for 25 WM and 3 monk, what would be the changes and where should I substitute monk levels for WM levels?
Well if you are planning to keep the Monk levels in Epic, you should take a level of Monk at 22 and 37. You could take the other one at 27 or 32. If you dont mind losing 1 AB you could take one of the Monk levels pre-epic for an earlier skill dump and Monk speed and whatever other bonuses Monks get. Maybe 12, 22 or 27, and 37. Just depends on how early you want the bonuses and skill dumps.
maybe a harper/fighter/wepmaster build if you know one? hm, and would taking monk at lvl one alter it horribly?
What's with you WoT people suddenly turning up here, hm? 
. I love the build!
