DR 11/- (although I'm not really sure if the Barbarian DR is x/-)
Naked stats AC: 18 AB: 39/34/29/24
With Full Plate/Tower Shield/Battleaxe AC: 28 AB: 42/37/32/27 Damage: 1-8 + 10 (19-20/x3)
CONS: Low AC, reflex/will saves, ab/damage not that high compared to other tanks.
Note: Class progression is not really optimal, like taking Barbarian at first level would gain more skill points.
Edited By griphook on 05/09/05 14:31
Oh kinda forgot some of the pros.
A slight speed advantage over most opponents.
High Fort save, usually only fails dev crit when rolling a one.
Can take tons of damage, and shrugs off a bit on each hit.
Devastating Critical DC: 41/42 when raging STR items will add to that.
RAAAAGING:
Stats increase when Raging: Greater Rage: +6 STR +6 CON +3 to will saves -2 to AC (7 times a day) Mighty Rage: +8 STR +8 CON +4 to will saves -2 to AC (3 times a day)
When Raging both the Terrifying Rage and Thundering Rage apples as well:
Thundering Rage: On hit opponent takes +2d6 damage and there's a 50% chance of the opponent is deafened for 3 rounds.
Terrifying Rage: "Fear aura", with a 43 ranks in intimidate chances are that an opponent will be affected by that (will save vs. intimidate) - penalty depends on opponents HD.
Tauting: 43 ranks in taunt means that you easily taunt most opponents.
Edited By MartinJHolm on 05/07/05 09:17
I love any build that has Dwarf and Barbarian in it. However, you forgot to take EWS along the way. I'd take out that Epic Prowess and stick that in there instead.
His DR should be 10/-, unless he keeps getting 1/- every 3 levels of Barb beyond 20th (in which case it's 11).
Too bad you couldn't get DR III. Not sure if it's worth trading Armor skin for. _________________ Homer: Lisa, would you like a donut? Lisa: No thanks. Do you have any fruit? Homer: This has purple in it. Purple is a fruit.
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 05/07/05 14:16
In my opinion an increased chance of hitting is more important than damage, that's why I chose Prowness.
The DR is 11 Barbarian DR increases to 5 at level 23. (gets 1 per 3 levels in epic).
And yeah Armor Skin is really important since the AC isn't that great.
In my opinion an increased chance of hitting is more important than damage, that's why I chose Prowness.
The DR is 11 Barbarian DR increases to 5 at level 23. (gets 1 per 3 levels in epic).
And yeah Armor Skin is really important since the AC isn't that great.
It occurred to me that you can drop two barbarian levels in Epic Levels, and take two fighter instead, get EWS or DR III, and still maintain all your Rage Feats. Just adjust your epic leveling so that on General Feat levels you take Barbarian. The only thing you would lose is the 1/- DR gain by Barb, but you would get 3/- back. _________________ Homer: Lisa, would you like a donut? Lisa: No thanks. Do you have any fruit? Homer: This has purple in it. Purple is a fruit.
Curious as to why Fighter and not CoT since you'd get bonus to saves with 2 CoT.. every lil +1 counts!
Curious as to why Fighter and not CoT since you'd get bonus to saves with 2 CoT.. every lil +1 counts!
-DaMouse
Because CoT doesn't have the same feat progression after 10th lvl. It's 1 every 3.
On a side note, he could take 1 more ftr and CoT pre-epic and postpone 2 barbarian levels for post epic, and receive 2 Epic feats earlier in his career, and still not sacrifice his Rage progression feats. _________________ "Me fail English? That's unpossible." ---Ralph Wiggum
Because CoT doesn't have the same feat progression after 10th lvl. It's 1 every 3.
Every 4.
Syrath
Bloody manuals. _________________ "Me fail English? That's unpossible." ---Ralph Wiggum
that will teach me for talking to people straight after a day biking through mud >_< thoughts all muddled >_<
It occurred to me that you can drop two barbarian levels in Epic Levels, and take two fighter instead, get EWS or DR III, and still maintain all your Rage Feats. Just adjust your epic leveling so that on General Feat levels you take Barbarian. The only thing you would lose is the 1/- DR gain by Barb, but you would get 3/- back.
It can't be done with only 2 Epic Barbarian levels (21/22) available to take the feats at - unless of course you can take the Rage feats when not leveling up as Barbarian. Anyway I don't gain any feast since I would lose the Epic Barbarian feat.
EDIT: Hmmm I already take Terrifying Rage as a non-epic Barbarian!!! Gotta test that.
On a side note, he could take 1 more ftr and CoT pre-epic and postpone 2 barbarian levels for post epic, and receive 2 Epic feats earlier in his career, and still not sacrifice his Rage progression feats.
Yeah I noticed that myself, I'm making a revised build.
Edited By MartinJHolm on 05/08/05 12:15
Oh, it can be done because I just did it. You might be able to take Terrifying Rage at 21st, though I don't know how strict it'll be in allowing for your Intimidate score, which would only be 24. I know you can reach it at Lvl 24 provided you have 15 levels of Barbarian (that is the key). I'm interested in seeing the Revised version. _________________ Homer: Lisa, would you like a donut? Lisa: No thanks. Do you have any fruit? Homer: This has purple in it. Purple is a fruit.
Slightly revised version - actually build from scratch and tested (the other version was as well though).
Changes:
1) did as grizzled_dwarflord suggested and took a COT and Fighter level pre-epic to get the bonus feats earlier - HOWEVER even though I took fighter at level 30 and took the Great STR IV feat to get my STR to 23 "Overwhelming Critical" wasn't available!!! so I had to wait to level 31 - why it doesn't work beats me.
2) I made a mistake in the first build and put Thundering Rage at 39, it was supposed to be at 40.
3) end stat changes - concentration skill dropped by one since I took the fighter level earlier, upped heal by one. Saves all changes: Fort/Reflex got one higher, will dropped by one - I have no clue why, my own calculations makes me think they should have been 36/24/17 - maybe someone clever can tell me why they end up as they do.
NOTE: It seems that the description for Terrifying rage says Epic Barbarian (also in game) you can actually take even though your Babarian levels are not epic.
Saves: Fortitude 35 Reflex 24 Will 19 (+2 vs. spells because he's a dwarf).
DR 11/-
Naked stats AC: 18 AB: 39/34/29/24
With Full Plate/Tower Shield/Battleaxe AC: 28 AB: 42/37/32/27 Damage: 1-8 + 10 (19-20/x3)
Edited By MartinJHolm on 05/08/05 14:05
What if you made Dex and Int 13, and brought Str up to 16? Get everything faster and save yourself an Epic feat maybe? The only thing you would really lose would be 40 skill points. The dex will be cancelled out by the full plate. _________________ "Me fail English? That's unpossible." ---Ralph Wiggum
43 skill points..
What if you made Dex and Int 13, and brought Str up to 16? Get everything faster and save yourself an Epic feat maybe? The only thing you would really lose would be 40 skill points. The dex will be cancelled out by the full plate.
As I said initially this build was made for PvP and I needed the all the skills I could get.
But actually I'm remaking the build for 'campaign' play, I don't really need concentration and heal that much for that type of game - because of the potions available there. Also I'm trying to make the build more playable by a more "linear" progression....
Btw. sorry for the spelling in my posts; English isn't my first language.
Thanks for the input, I think this is the final build - I optimized it to be as playable as possible, meaning he will be alternating between the 'upgrades' as much as possible in Epic Levels.
Saves: Fortitude 35 Reflex 24 Will 19 (+2 vs. spells because he's a dwarf).
DR 14/-
Naked stats AC: 18 AB: 39/34/29/24
With Full Plate/Tower Shield/Battleaxe AC: 28 AB: 42/37/32/27 Damage: 1-8 + 10 (19-20/x3)
Btw. it's hard to see really from just looking at the build but the combination of the Terrifying Rage "Aura", Taunt, knockdown, power attack is awesome.
Nice buid, my version is called "thre true barbarian", it's in the list! I took 8 DX and started with 17 STR, but at the end the two builds have the same feats. =8)
I agree they are similar in many ways (the level distribution is identical) - but I'd still have to say mine is overall better
Hehe, I'm not trying to be an smartass here but I already see the major weakness in my build as the AC and your build has an even worse AC, I mean: no dodge, no Armor Skin, negative dex modifier, not using a shield .. basically your AC sucks, if you were up agains something like a dragon you would be in big trouble unless of course you dev. critted it quick - in PvP your build wouldn't last many seconds before you were the one critted though.
But granted your build does a lot more damage and you do have Imp. Power Attack (which my build really could use) and "base" you have 80 hp more than mine. You maximized intimidate, but in my opinion that isn't worth it - if I was to maximize intimidate I would go with some kind of Barbarian/Bard build (actually I'm going to do that - next project).
One thing that I realize from looking at your build is that I probably should invest in a weapon with a higher crit range, maybe a scimitar - somehow an axe is just what I figure a dwarf would wield.
I have to agree about the AC... but hey, that's what items are for... obtaining 4 dex it's not difficult, and 12 Dex it's the maximum you need due to the armor restriction. For the rest I really don't see why your build can be definied "overall better", since enemy's damage reduction can be a serious problem for your build, mine instead does a lot of damage even with the mundane weapon... it's a matter of points of view...
I don't disagree on the damage, my build does have a hard time doing damage to cretures with 30/- DR but on the other hand it wont get hit as much as your build would.
Aside from me suggesting a one had weapon and a shield and you go for a two handed weapon (we could both change that without altering the builds) it boils down to:
You pick Imp. Powerattack, I pick Knockdown
I get +3 AC (Dodge, Armor Skin) and you chose to enhance your "Rage Aura".
So the difference isn't really huge but in my experience the enhanced maneuverability my build has (dodge/mobility) would give it the edge.
Honestly, I think mobility is a bit of a waste. With your ranks in Tumble you're going to avoid all Attacks of Opportunity from moving in battle without fail, and Uncanny Dodge means you're never going to be flatfooted. The only way this character would really get AoOs would be from drinking potions in combat, but with your high HP, you shouldn't need to do that. And you could always run back a bit out of combat, since you'll automatically avoid all AoOs from movement and will have a slight speed boost anyway, and drink there. Basically, Mobility is giving you +4AC in a situation that will pretty much never occur.
Steve
I guess you're right about that.
I think I might have made too many shadowdancer builds and somehow now always need to fit mobility in any build I make, LOL.
, I can definitely understand that. If you drop Mobility, then you could squeeze in something like Improved Power Attack to eke out some extra damage, or perhaps Improved Knockdown.
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 05/09/05 18:33
It's ok... but i think you're right about the focused ability, I think I can drop the lesser one for armor skin, in order to gain 2 AC for a not-so useful ability.. anyway, I love to see a raging dwarf...
Anyone who discounts the effectiveness of a high intimidate coupled with terrifying rage is a bit behind the power curve. Terrifying rage is perhaps the most useful of all barbarian specific feats on almost all servers be them PvM or PvP, and on high magic it easily trumps all other barb abilities. I really encourage you to look into it before making pretty humorous statements regarding +2 AC when TR is going to almost without fail force -2 AB on the attacker...
Now add in possible fear + coup de grace and -2 to saving throws. It's pretty straight forward. An intimidate of only 40 will achieve a fair amount. Just my humble opinion.
Anyone who discounts the effectiveness of a high intimidate coupled with terrifying rage is a bit behind the power curve. Terrifying rage is perhaps the most useful of all barbarian specific feats on almost all servers be them PvM or PvP, and on high magic it easily trumps all other barb abilities. I really encourage you to look into it before making pretty humorous statements regarding +2 AC when TR is going to almost without fail force -2 AB on the attacker...
Now add in possible fear + coup de grace and -2 to saving throws. It's pretty straight forward. An intimidate of only 40 will achieve a fair amount. Just my humble opinion.
Which is why this build has an intimidate check of 41. He wasn't discounting the usefulness of intimidate. He was just discounting the usefulness of skill focuses in intimidate. That is far less clear cut, and would depend on the PW as to what kinds of saving throw items are available, etc. If 41 is enough for most of the people you were up against, then those skill focuses would be better spent on other feats.
Steve
Ah... that's what I get for skimming.
Thanks Strvinsky00, that’s what I meant. Hadrian Quinn, my build does use the “Aura” and has a check of 55. I was thinking that even without “focused ability: intimidate” he has a check of 51, which seems already good to me, and I can take “armor skin” instead of it. See? I was not discounting intimidate or making humorous statement… maybe because the whole build is based on it… try to find my build and you’ll see it…
Thanks Strvinsky00, that’s what I meant. Hadrian Quinn, my build does use the “Aura” and has a check of 55. I was thinking that even without “focused ability: intimidate” he has a check of 51, which seems already good to me, and I can take “armor skin” instead of it. See? I was not discounting intimidate or making humorous statement… maybe because the whole build is based on it… try to find my build and you’ll see it… 