Playing on a PW with a modified true sight spell which prevents you from seeing hiding creatures, having HiPS is a great help in PvP and being able to see through it is necessary to level the playing field against stealth builds. Hence the epic skill focuses in hide, move silently and listen. Plus, a finesse'd dev crit character seems to have been ignored here. Factor in that bard/rdd seems to be the build du jour and this bad boy speaks for itself. Weaknesses include a relatively low hp (max of 376), fort save (22) and will save (23). However, it has something for everyone, a high ac and epic dodge for melee types, a buffed listen into the 80s for stealth builds and imp evasion, a reflex save of 37, and fire immunity for mages. And HiPS for all of them on servers where that is useful, and when it isn't, toss on a tower shield for at least another 3 ac.
naked ac of 33, ab with mundane rapier is 36/31/26, dev crit dc of 37
naked and buffed hide/move silently of 61, listen is 83 _________________ i had a better joke but i lobster.
Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/10/07 13:48
Okay...I'm not sure what this build wants to be when it grows up. Although the Epic Skill Focuses.... not sure how necessary all that is....
Your Perform is not high enough for a 14th level Bard Song. You have 19. You need 21.
Your Charisma is also not high enough to cast 5th level spells. Not sure if that matters to you or not.
It's seems a waste to leave your Str at 25, and then have a 26 Dex with Wpn Finesse. It seems a bit squandering.
Also, judging by your feat selection, you were going completely melee based--with SD for defense. Yet you have a crisis at Lvl 30--EWF or Curse Song. That's kind of major. It seems there is a way to get both, no? And for having a melee slant, his Ab and attack schedule strike me as a little low.
Also, I noticed you have no Lingering Song, or Extra Music. Combined with your low perform and low charisma, why did you take Bard at all? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 05/28/05 18:32
Quote: Posted 05/28/05 18:26:56 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord Your Perform is not high enough for a 14th level Bard Song. You have 19. You need 21.
Quote: Posted 05/28/05 18:26:56 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord Your Perform is not high enough for a 14th level Bard Song. You have 19. You need 21.
He has +2 from CHA.
Steve
Damn bonuses. Who designed this game anyway?
There still needs to be a way to get that Charisma up one more point for casting of 5th level spells. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Okay...I'm not sure what this build wants to be when it grows up. Although the Epic Skill Focuses.... not sure how necessary all that is....
Your Charisma is also not high enough to cast 5th level spells. Not sure if that matters to you or not.
It's seems a waste to leave your Str at 25, and then have a 26 Dex with Wpn Finesse. It seems a bit squandering.
Also, judging by your feat selection, you were going completely melee based--with SD for defense. Yet you have a crisis at Lvl 30--EWF or Curse Song. That's kind of major. It seems there is a way to get both, no? And for having a melee slant, his Ab and attack schedule strike me as a little low.
Also, I noticed you have no Lingering Song, or Extra Music. Combined with your low perform and low charisma, why did you take Bard at all?
To begin at the beginning, I addressed the epic skill focuses by stating in my opening that I play a PW which has altered the true sight spell in such a way that it no longer reveals hiding characters.
The 5th level bard spells are ethereal visage, greater dispell, healing circle, mind fog, and summon creature V. This and pretty much every other build can do without those.
Strength was left at 25 because the idea is to use dex boosting items to give bonuses to ab and ac. In a world with +5 magical items, 70+ ac is easily attained. Ultimately bard is taken because Sorc sucks for a melee build and 10 levels are devoted to RDD. The skills, song, and spells are basically a bonus here.
Regarding the lack of song-centric feats, bard song lasts 10 rounds, and in this case has 14 uses. I'm not sure how many 140 round fights you're getting into with this build, but even if you're going that long, I'd say lingering song and extra music are frivilous.
As far as being able to use both epic weapon focus and curse song, specificity on how they can both be used would be helpful. I mean, if you're not in the same situation and a true sigh scroll will let you glare holes in any stealthy whatever that comes along, then chuck hide/move silent/listen skill focuses in favor of some epic weapon focus, armor skin and epic prowess.
If I wanted to just tell everyone how to do this as opposed to presenting an idea to be considered, I'd tell you to use curse song. But maybe someone has a real Depp vs Greico dilemma and doesn't really trust the mere 10 rounds curse song would last and wants the reliability and assurance of +2 always being there for you. Even though it'd sneak out on you after you fell asleep, I'm going with curse song.
Oh yeah, the ab being low. Thats without any sort of buffs or dex bonus, so yeah, its weak. With +12 dex, greater magic weapon and bard song, it'd be 48/43/38. Not amazing, but solid. _________________ i had a better joke but i lobster.
Edited By tvs gene shalit on 05/29/05 02:15
Hey Gene shalit, just wanted to apologize. I totally skipped right over your initial paragraph and went straight into the build. I'm not really sure how I missed that. Anyway, yeah, that background certainly changes everything I said. Sorry to muck your build all up with my senseless ranting.
Back to the build itself, I totally get what your saying aboutthe Bard feats. 14 Bardsongs a day seems like enough. However, I wouldn't base that on one 140 Round contest. I think as soon as this build picks up Curse Song, then it'll be wanting Extra Music just due to Curse sucking up that resource twice as fast. I wouldn't make an argument for Lingering or Lasting.
As for the 5th level spells, I always found it useful to have another summons to soak some damage, but that's just me. I've been a fan of Ehtereal Visage too, but perhaps there's something there that I'm missing?
It just seems that the character just hinges on the brink of acquiring extra abilities, but then foregoes them-- the 26 Str, the 15 Charisma, etc....I think this is in large part because it is tailored for a specific world.
I actually think that Overwhelming and Devastating Crit are probably not the best choices in a build like this. The DC will never be that high, and with the low AB, it's chances, even on a successful crit will probably be overcome by most Fort saves.
Anyways, sorry again to muck it up. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 05/29/05 16:53
No harm done _________________ i had a better joke but i lobster.