I wanted to make a build that focused heavily on buffing and melee fighting. This is it. I found it quite fun to play in the OC, SoU and HotU, I have no idea how it would do in PvP, though I tried to put some thought into that when making the build. Any helpful comments would be appreciated, it's the first build I've posted so there's probably room for improvement.
starting stats str 14 dex 14 con 14 wis 8 int 14 cha 14
final stats str 25 dex 15 con 19 wis 8 int 16 cha 19
Key skills: 43 concentration, 43 discipline, 42 spellcraft, 20 tumble That leaves 73 points, I used them for 20 lore, 20 persuade, 20 craft armor, 13 craft weapon
Naked, unbuffed stats (wielding normal kukri in both hands) HP 460 (max) AC 20 attack 34,29,24,19,34,29 damage 1-4 + 9 (15-20 x2), 1-4 + 5 (15-20 x2) saves: (versus spells) fortitude 27 (36) reflex 17 (26) will 21 (30)
Dev Crit at DC 37
Those are, admittedly, not very impressive stats. The Buff Disciple is not supposed to be running around unbuffed however, hence the name. This next bit will try to show what his stats will look like with buffing spells up, still just with normal weapons and no other equipment.
final spell list at lvl 40 nX means you can add n more spells for this level lvl1: true strike, mage armor, shield, 2X lvl2: bull's strength, cat's grace, endurance, eagle's splendor, flame weapon lvl3: keen edge, vampiric touch, greater magic weapon, haste lvl4: imp. invisibility, elemental shield, ice storm, 1X lvl5: mestril's acid sheath, bigby's interposing hand, 2X lvl6: true seeing, IGMS, 1X lvl7: shadow shield, protection from spells, 1X lvl8: mind blank, premonition, 1X lvl9: time stop, mordenkeinen's disjunction, shapechange
So, back to the stats, same order HP 460 base 120 from maxed endurance 60 fom maxed vampiric touch 640 total
AC 20 base 3 from maxed cat's grace 4 from shield 5 from shadow shield 2 from mage armor 4 from haste (not for long, but you should be hasted in combat anyway) 38 total
Also note: -10 enemy attack from bigby's interposing hand 50% concealment and -4 to enemy attack from improved inisibility 30/+5 damage reduction (max 210 per cast) from premonition 10/+3 damage reduction from shadow shield 21+1d6 fire + 42+1d6 acid damage to melee attackers 50/+20 damage reduction from epic warding (short duration once per day)
attack 34,29,24,19,34,29 base +3 maxed bull's strength +5 greater magic weapon haste adds extra attack 42,42,37,32,27,42,37 total
Damage 1-4 + 9, 1-4 + 5 +3,+2 maxed bull's strength +5,+5 greater magic weapon +11-14 fire flame weapon 1-4 + 17 +11-14 fire, 1-4 + 12 +11-14 fire total (threat range becomes 12-20 with keen edge)
Saves: fortitude 27 (36) reflex 17 (26) will 21 (30) ability buffs give +3 to fort and reflex protection from spells gives +8 universal buffed saves: fortitude 30 (47) reflex 20 (37) will 21 (38)with spellcraft and protection from spells.
Dev Crit at DC 37 becomes DC 40 with maxed bull's strength
I know some people will say that it takes too long to cast so many spells after each rest, but if you are one of the people who fell that way, then this build is just not for you.
Edited By griphook on 06/06/05 20:25
I'm thinking about giving up knockdown and getting two more overwhelming criticals, any thoughts on that?
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 06:39:55 (GMT) -- pulse cap
I'm thinking about giving up knockdown and getting two more overwhelming criticals, any thoughts on that?
You mean getting overwhelming crit in two other weapons? You can only take that feat once per weapon type. It's an interesting build though as is.
Steve
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 08:02:42 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00 You mean getting overwhelming crit in two other weapons? You can only take that feat once per weapon type.
I actually thought I could get three in kukri for 3d6 damage, but that is indeed impossible, thanks for pointing it out. Must have confused it with something else.
I would say that final stat point into CON isn't really doing anything for you, since it ends at 19. Leave your CON at 18 and put that final stat increase into STR. That gives you 26 STR for an exta +1 AB and damage. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 14:22:24 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
I would say that final stat point into CON isn't really doing anything for you, since it ends at 19. Leave your CON at 18 and put that final stat increase into STR. That gives you 26 STR for an exta +1 AB and damage.
You're missing the point, he's focused entirely on buffing spells and so I've intentionally left str,dex,con and cha on odd numbers. His stats with maxed ability buffs are: str 30 dex 20 con 24 wis 8 int 16 cha 24
Of course this makes him rather vulnerable to dispelling, but a lvl 20+ caster using mord's disjunction will still have to roll 12 against each spell effect (provided I've properly understood how the dispell spells work, which I may not have)
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 15:36:19 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 14:22:24 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
I would say that final stat point into CON isn't really doing anything for you, since it ends at 19. Leave your CON at 18 and put that final stat increase into STR. That gives you 26 STR for an exta +1 AB and damage.
You're missing the point, he's focused entirely on buffing spells and so I've intentionally left str,dex,con and cha on odd numbers. His stats with maxed ability buffs are: str 30 dex 20 con 24 wis 8 int 16 cha 24
Of course this makes him rather vulnerable to dispelling, but a lvl 20+ caster using mord's disjunction will still have to roll 12 against each spell effect (provided I've properly understood how the dispell spells work, which I may not have)
I didn't really miss the point, as I figured you were doing something like that, but I still think it's better to leave your stats at even numbers. The reason?
You can only buff any stat by a maximum of +12. If you have items as well as spells that boost stats, then your max boost is going to leave your stat at an odd number. A waste, IMHO.
That being said, I see what you're doing - just something to think about. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 16:09:01 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
You can only buff any stat by a maximum of +12. If you have items as well as spells that boost stats, then your max boost is going to leave your stat at an odd number. A waste, IMHO.
OK, I see your point. However buffing spells in general are a lot more useful in modules that don't shower you with migical items. Of the spells i listed, quite a few can be replaced by items, I can think of the following, there may be more
That's a good portion of the whole spell list, which is why this and other buffing characters are a lot more useful where magic items are rare. He would be considerably weaker (compared to other builds) on high magic worlds and so I've tried to aim for best performance without magic items. That said, shifting a point of con into str (or str->con) would indeed be a good adaptation if you have greater access to magical items.
Edited By pulse cap on 06/05/05 16:59
An excellent point. I wasn't knocking the build - it's good, especially in a low-magic environment. I think it would rock. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/05/05 17:56:21 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din it's good, especially in a low-magic environment. I think it would rock.
Yay, Thanks!
Its a good build, really, I have been running some tests with it, and it seems so well planned. Of course it can be debuffed, but who cannot? The only thing I would like is EWS, but since removing Epic warding probably is out of the question, the only "expendable" feat I see is Toughness. Then the weighing. 8th fghtr lev into late epics to get EWS, +4 dmg for the cost of 40 hp and 1 AB. Well, dunno, but +4 dmg with your amount of attacks is quite a bit, especially when true striking. All your feats will be moved a space tho. But you have probably done this weighing, seeing how well planned the build is.
Quote: Posted 07/03/05 08:59:22 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 Its a good build, really, I have been running some tests with it, and it seems so well planned.
Wow, thanks. If you've been trying it recently you may well know it better than me now, because after all the pre-post play testing I was a bit tired of it and haven't used it since.
Quote: Posted 07/03/05 08:59:22 (GMT) -- Grimnir77 Of course it can be debuffed, but who cannot? The only thing I would like is EWS, but since removing Epic warding probably is out of the question, the only "expendable" feat I see is Toughness. Then the weighing. 8th fghtr lev into late epics to get EWS, +4 dmg for the cost of 40 hp and 1 AB. Well, dunno, but +4 dmg with your amount of attacks is quite a bit, especially when true striking. All your feats will be moved a space tho. But you have probably done this weighing, seeing how well planned the build is.
EWS would be great, I agree. Losing 40 HP could be acceptable I think, but -1 BAB would mean one less attack, which would sting a bit. I've spent quite a while now looking over the build hoping to find another way to do it, but failed. Hopefully one of the master builders of the forum can help out with it.
OK, here's an idea. It sacrifices overwhelming and devastating criticals, which is bad, but dev crit is banned on many PWs anyway. Perhaps a bigger sacrifice is that you lose a lot of playability until the last level. Anyway, here it is:
Go for (sorc 4/figh 8/ RDD 8) pre-epic. Take another fighter level at a clvl where you get to choose a feat. Take one more RDD at lvl 21-38, preferably early to maximise skill points. Take the final RDD level on lvl 40. This makes (sorc 21/figh 9/RDD 10).
Much less playable at lvls 15-39, but it does get EWS without sacrificing any BAB. It will also free up another feat, as you drop both overwhelming and devastating critical while adding only EWS. Or you could drop two more feats for great str and still get overwhelming critical (req is 23 str if i remember correctly). If anyone is interested, I'll post a leveling chart with these changes.
It hasn't been play-tested yet, but it should work. Personally I rather like it this way, but I can't really tell which is better. Input on this would be welcome.
Edited By pulse cap on 07/03/05 23:52
Well, the Dev. Crit version is, obviously, a lot better anywhere Dev. Crit isn't banned, because the feat is ridiculously overpowered. If I were using it somewhere I didn't have Dev. Crit, though, that newer build looks mighty fine.
Well, the Dev. Crit version is, obviously, a lot better anywhere Dev. Crit isn't banned, because the feat is ridiculously overpowered.
True, question is, would it be better to just drop dev crit from the original build and replace it with another epic feat? It stings a bit having to wait until lvl 40 to get the final RDD bonuses.
I would drop it.
But then again, I belong to the CADC _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
i hate dev crit, and dont even have one build with that included. But I really enjoy your build, but not taking dev crit really changes it to a bit different path. But i must say, this build really hit me. Good work!
Its a good build, really, I have been running some tests with it, and it seems so well planned. Of course it can be debuffed, but who cannot? The only thing I would like is EWS, but since removing Epic warding probably is out of the question, the only "expendable" feat I see is Toughness. Then the weighing. 8th fghtr lev into late epics to get EWS, +4 dmg for the cost of 40 hp and 1 AB. Well, dunno, but +4 dmg with your amount of attacks is quite a bit, especially when true striking. All your feats will be moved a space tho. But you have probably done this weighing, seeing how well planned the build is. 