I created this because I wanted to have a strong caster who wasn't limited to attack spells without saving throws but who could still wade into melee when he wants. It's more about versatility than being the most uber character ever. I also don't like still spell/auto still spell I-III, as I prefer to be able to use all my spells as I get them without waiting for those feats. Plus, I'm just not a big fan of the plate wearing mage. So, this build starts with higher dex, so that with Cat's Grace and minimal dex boosting gear (+1 DEX is enough), you can wear leather armor and only have 1 AC less than in full plate and only 10% chance of spell failure. With higher dex boosting gear (especially if you hit the +12 cap), you can switch to padded armor or robes for AC equal to plate mail and 5% or 0% spell failure. Anyway, here is the build:
Human, any non-evil
STR 15 (16) DEX 15 (16) CON 12 WIS 8 INT 16 (28) CHA 8
Increase STR at level 4, DEX at level 8, and INT all the rest
Skills (335 total points) Concentration 41 Discipline 43 Spellcraft 41 Tumble 20 That leaves 170 for whatever you want (I like Lore, Heal, Search, Disable Trap, and Persuade)
Unbuffed AB with mundane two-bladed sword - 31/26/21/16 in main hand, 31/26 in off-hand Unbuffed AC with mundane leather armor - 21 Unbuffed damage with mundane two-bladed sword - 1-8 + 9 (17-20/x2) in main hand, 1-8 + 7 (17-20/x2) in off-hand Unbuffed max HP = 324 Unbuffed saves - Fortitude 27, Reflex 26, Will 23
Buffed AB (without True Strike) with mundane two-bladed sword - 38/33/28/23/40* in main hand, 38/33 in off-hand Buffed AB (with True Strike) with mundane two-bladed sword - 53/48/43/38/55* in main hand, 53/48 in off-hand Buffed damage with mundane two-bladed sword - 2-12 + 26 (15-20/x2) in main hand, 2-12 + 23 (15-20/x2) in off-hand Buffed AC with mundane leather armor - 48 Buffed max HP - 404 Buffed saves - Fortitude 29, Reflex 28, Will 25
*During testing, I noticed that the extra attack from Haste does not take dual wielding penalties into account. That's why it's 2 points higher than the first attack.
AB is still not great after buffing. The full +12 to STR would raise it to 42. But you do get 3 attacks at your highest AB and 2 attacks at your next highest, so that helps a bit. I generally play through single player modules or small multiplayer campaigns, so that's not as much of an issue as it would be in PvP for example. But, any enemy with AC that high that you can't strip with Mordenkainen's Disjunction should be attacked with spells anyway. Mostly I built this because it's fun to play as a fairly strong caster who can still slice his enemies up if he wishes. Plus, it's fun to taunt the pure mages by stripping them of their buffs and then keeping them on the ground with Improved Knockdown and beating them to death .
Steve
I had to look at this for a long time. At first glance, it doesn't appear to seem that much, but it actually kind of rocks. Very well-considered. Fighter-Mage old-school, and he's not elf. What's really nifty are the 18 feats you get at first level.
And, as Cin would say, you get mucho style points for taking Exotic WP, Ambi, TWF/ITWF in a Double-bladed sword for a character who has 26 levels of wizard. Bravo! _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
I had to look at this for a long time. At first glance, it doesn't appear to seem that much, but it actually kind of rocks. Very well-considered. Fighter-Mage old-school, and he's not elf.
That's exactly what I was going for. My favorite character from BG and BGII was my elven fighter/mage, and I've been wanting to come up with a character that had that seem feel to it, regardless if it wasn't the most uber or anything. This build has really been a blast for me to play. Very nostalgic.
Quote: And, as Cin would say, you get mucho style points for taking Exotic WP, Ambi, TWF/ITWF in a Double-bladed sword for a character who has 26 levels of wizard. Bravo!
, thanks. I love the two-bladed sword. For one, I think it looks cool as a wizard weapon, sort of like a sword/staff. I would take it for that reason alone. Plus, it lets you dual wield medium weapons (the same as two longswords) without the penalty, and you still only have one weapon to cast flame weapon, GMW, and keen edge on. Plus, those extra attacks at your highest AB from dual wielding help a lot with a lower AB build like this.
As a side note, one way you could make the build stronger would be to drop it to 4 fighter levels, and go fighter(4)/wizard(8)/CoT(8) pre-epic. You'd have to go fighter(4)/wizard(6) before starting CoT though. Your saves will be higher that way. I choose this leveling because I like the balanced leveling between melee and wizard as you build it up. Again, my fun over uberness .
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 06/07/05 05:00
Cool build Steve. Heh - style points indeed! I have a very similar build I've played on a couple different PWs, but I didn't go with the dual-wield/double weapon (Opted for the heavily armored spellsword type of build). Loads of fun.
One thing: have you considered perhaps CoT 10/WIZ 26/FTR 4? You could go with 4 FTR and 6 WIZ for the first 10 levels, then mix in 2 WIZ and 8 CoT to get to level 20. Same number of feats, but your saves are higher (FORT and REF +2, Will +1) _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/07/05 04:59:52 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Cool build Steve. Heh - style points indeed! I have a very similar build I've played on a couple different PWs, but I didn't go with the dual-wield/double weapon (Opted for the heavily armored spellsword type of build). Loads of fun.
One thing: have you considered perhaps CoT 10/WIZ 26/FTR 4? You could go with 4 FTR and 6 WIZ for the first 10 levels, then mix in 2 WIZ and 8 CoT to get to level 20. Same number of feats, but your saves are higher (FORT and REF +2, Will +1)
, yeah, I just listed that option up there a few seconds after you. I'm still debating now...I may actually do that, because it might actually be more fun...I'll post an updated leveling.
Steve
Ok, here's an updated leveling path. This build ends as Fighter 4/Wizard 26/CoT 10, and has, as Cin mentioned, +2 to Fortitude and Reflex and +1 to Will.
I'm thinking Necromancy might be a better school for the spell focus. There are quite a few necromancy spells that would be very useful on the way up and at high levels, especially for a fighter mage (lots of strength and level lowering spells, not to mention Horrid Wilting and Wail of the Banshee). As for evocation, a lot of the best evocation spells (ice storm, the bigby's, ILMS and IGMS) don't have saving throws anyway, making the spell focus a bit less useful. Of course, the Torm levels are a bit odd RP wise with necromancy, although you can switch to fighter and take a hit to your saves. Hrm...any thoughts?
Steve
I would reduce dex by 1 and increase con by 2 since +40 hp > +1 AC and +1 reflex save.
I would reduce dex by 1 and increase con by 2 since +40 hp > +1 AC and +1 reflex save.
The only problem is that if I did that, I couldn't get Ambidexterity at level 1, since it requires 15 DEX. What I could do is start with 14 STR, 15 DEX, and 14 CON, and then put the first 2 points in STR instead of STR and DEX. So, end up with 16 STR, 15 DEX, 14 CON. I'm still toying with giving a bit more STR at the expense of INT...I would like a slightly higher AB, but I don't want to drop INT too far. Hrm.
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 06/07/05 21:35
Start with: 15 STR 14 DEX 14 CON 8 WIS 16 INT 8 CHA
I agree about getting the extra con at the expense of dex, but I think the way I suggested doing it in the post above yours works better. I don't like delaying Ambidexterity (by the way, Ambi is the one that needs DEX 15, not TWF) until 6th level for a build meant to focus in a weapon that requires it. Start with 14 STR, 15 DEX, and 14 CON, and put the first two stat boosts into STR. You end up with the same stats but you can keep Ambi/TWF at level 1 (in fact, all the feats can be kept) and thus can wield your intended weapon well sooner than level 6. Moving toughness earlier might be a good idea anyway, but you can move it to 3rd if you want without postponing Ambidexterity.
I didn't know this was possible, to take EWS on a CoT lvl.
He can get EWS, just can't get regular WS
Thanks, you've taught me something new today! This opens up some new possibilities.
Btw. Can EWS be taken as a CoT bonus feat, or does it have to be taken as a regular feat? _________________ I generally avoid temptation, unless I can't resist it...
Both. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Thanks for answering that Grizz. Yes, it's not documented anywhere to my knowledge (not even the Grimoire), but CoT is the one other class that can in fact get EWS as long as you already have WS somewhere. And yes, it is on the CoT epic bonus feat list as well. It is extremely useful, as it's far preferable to take 2 more CoT (at least up to CoT 10) than it is to take 2 more fighter levels.
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 06/08/05 17:09
Quote: Posted 06/08/05 17:08:23 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00 it's far preferable to take 2 more CoT (at least up to CoT 10) than it is to take 2 more fighter levels.
Probably a stupid question, but what is the benefit of fighter over CoT at any level once you have WS? _________________ Oh... you is human. Of course you live in human village. Ummm... we is sorry?
Quote: Posted 06/14/05 16:23:44 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 06/08/05 17:08:23 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00 it's far preferable to take 2 more CoT (at least up to CoT 10) than it is to take 2 more fighter levels.
Probably a stupid question, but what is the benefit of fighter over CoT at any level once you have WS?
Not much, other than if your character's evil (can't take CoT).
Another thing to consider is after level 10 CoT you only get a bonus feat every 4 levels, so FTR would be superior if you want the extra feats every 2 levels. CoT boosts your saves by 1 every 2 levels, but it counts towards the +20 saves boost cap, so if you have access to uber save boosters, that would be a limited/null benefit.
One last thing: if you don't want to burn a second class on CoT (perhaps you've something else in mind for your character). _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/14/05 16:52:46 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din Another thing to consider is after level 10 CoT you only get a bonus feat every 4 levels, so FTR would be superior if you want the extra feats every 2 levels.
Aha. That is the bit I didn't know, thanks for the info (Stravinsky00, sorry I put this qustion in your topic) _________________ Oh... you is human. Of course you live in human village. Ummm... we is sorry?
Quote: Posted 06/14/05 17:03:03 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 06/14/05 16:52:46 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din Another thing to consider is after level 10 CoT you only get a bonus feat every 4 levels, so FTR would be superior if you want the extra feats every 2 levels.
Aha. That is the bit I didn't know, thanks for the info (Stravinsky00, sorry I put this qustion in your topic)
Heh, no worries .
Steve
I've toyed with the build order a bit more, as well as the stats, so here's a new version. It has a few less skill points (291 instead of 335), but still more than enough for a wizard/fighter. Also, I have it here with spell focuses in Evocation, but you could also do something like Necromancy if you like (or, of course, any other school you feel like). Necromancy would be a bit more of an RP stretch for a CoT build though.
Human, any non-evil
STR 14 (16) DEX 15 CON 14 WIS 8 INT 16 (28) CHA 8
Increase STR at level 4 and 8, and INT all the rest
I didn't know this was possible, to take EWS on a CoT lvl.
Yeah, I didn't either, but the other day looked at the epic build Primeaval champion and they did it in that build. That made me go huh. Then I tested it and it worked. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
excellent build, going to give it a try.
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, thanks. I love the two-bladed sword. For one, I think it looks cool as a wizard weapon, sort of like a sword/staff. I would take it for that reason alone. Plus, it lets you dual wield medium weapons (the same as two longswords) without the penalty, and you still only have one weapon to cast flame weapon, GMW, and keen edge on. Plus, those extra attacks at your highest AB from dual wielding help a lot with a lower AB build like this.
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