It has been written by sages that this secret Brotherhood had been destroyed long ago in the War of Tears. However, recent events have suggested that they still exist, and that they have secluded themselves in a hidden mountain stronghold where they still maintain their vigil over lost relics of the Old Age. They still send the younger members of the Order to regain those Artifacts of Power that could threaten the world, or to quietly end the breathing of those individuals of those who seek such artifacts.
The Zen guardian has a very high AC when just in plain clothes. Against the strong melee types with high AB, he can immediately sacrifice 10 AB for 10AC, and still have enough AB to surgically strike and take them down while they swing away at his Epic Dodging-Empty Body Form. He is Taunt resistant with his 40 Concentration, and also is proud of his good Saving Throws. Spellcasters will find him a problem with his High Reflex save and Spell resistance. With even just a few simple items, the Zen Guardian becomes exponentially a dangerous opponent.
Elf/Halfling (Human and Dwarf work as well, just start Dex at 16) Lawful/Neutral
Str10 Int14 Wis15(18) Dex18(32) Con10 Chr8
1Monk, Dodge 2Monk 3Monk, Weapon Finesse 4Monk, Dex19 5Monk 6Monk, Weapon Focus: Unarmed Strike 7Monk 8Monk, Dex20 9Monk, Blind-fighting 10Monk 11Monk 12Monk, Mobility, Dex21 13SD 14SD 15SD, Weapon Focus: Kama 16SD, Dex22 17CoT 18CoT, Expertise, Improved Crit: Unarmed 19Cot 20CoT, Dex 23, Improved Expertise 21CoT, Great Dex I 22CoT, Great Wisdom I 23CoT 24Shadowdancer, Dex25, Epic Dodge 25CoT, Greeat Wisdom II 26Monk 27Monk, EWF: Unarmed Strike 28Monk, Dex 26 29Monk 30Monk, Great Dex II 31Monk 32Monk, Dex 28 33Monk(20), Great Dex III 34CoT 35CoT, Great Wisdom III 36Monk, Great Dex III, Dex31 37Monk 38Monk 39Monk, Epic Prowess 40Monk, Dex 32, Armor Skin(Monk Bonus Feat)
Naked AB: 41/38/35/32/29/26 Naked AC: 41 (51 in Impr Expertise Mode) Epic Dodge and Empty Body x2(25 Round duration) Hit Points: 350
I posted this build a while back, but never had a chance to test it. After a few trials in the Trainer, he was actually quite effective. He did quite well against all the 40th level opponents, and they were drinking Heals all day long (how many Heal potions does the Trainer give those guys anyway?). The Empty Body was quite effective, and 25 Rounds is a nice length, especially against those high hitpoint/DR opponents. I typically fought in Improved Expertise Mode, and discovered that I still had high enough AB to land some good hits.
It also became apparent that the Elf or Halfling version can get SC III without even stretching (Level 36,39 and 40). It's worth considering, but in this version I went with Higher AB and AC. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By griphook on 06/09/05 18:06
Now that is one nice build Griz. I would probably go elf though for the extra dex; hp will be important to a point, but since you're not gonna get hit much.. might be nicer to have higher ac in the end.
It is a great build. I have questions, though.
Why mobility (is it required for improved expertise)?
Why improved expertise?
Does shadowdancer pick up defensive roll automatically so that you don't need it for epic dodge?
I confess I am looking for insight into the Planar Scout; I toyed with shadowdancer instead of the CoT but I like the extra attack/round the CoT gives and the sneak attack and skills that rogue gives. _________________ We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender - Winston Churchill
Quote: Posted 06/07/05 16:14:28 (GMT) -- Ithacan
It is a great build. I have questions, though.
I'll try if I can, been toying a bit with these kind of builds lately . Sorry if I get them wildly wrong Griz
Quote: Why mobility (is it required for improved expertise)?
Requirement for Shadowdancer
Quote: Why improved expertise?
AC boost. Really important for the build that depends on ac over damage reduction; and since it has more of a tank kind of flow about it I would guess. Though that is just my perception on it, take with a pinch of salt
Quote: Does shadowdancer pick up defensive roll automatically so that you don't need it for epic dodge?
Yep; it's free at lvl5 ShadowDancer. Nice thing about shadowdancer class, is it gets a lot of the defensive capabilities/feats for free at levels earlier or identical at worst when compared to Rogue. If you could afford it, I would suggest pushing to ShadowDancer 7; as this gives free Slippery Mind to the build on top of those other really useful feats.
Edited By Khandahr on 06/07/05 16:42
Khandar nailed them all on the head. In a Dex Build, sooner or later you are going to need Defensive Roll, or Improved Evasion, or both. SD5 can get you Def Roll. SD10 can get you both (and slippery mind). 9Monk can get you Improved evasion. 13Rogue can get you Def Roll and Improved Evasion.
In this situation, there really is no point in taking more than 5 Shadowdancer levels unless going for SC V, and I could still get it without if I shuffled a few things around. Slippery Mind would be nice if this build were Rogue or fighter heavy, but he's got 25 levels of Monk. Nobody's going to mess with his mind. Remember he has Perfect Self. He actually has quite an arsenal, i just neglected to list all the stock goodies that come with a 25th level Monk.
As for Improved Expertise, it's just a phase I'm going through. If I create a Finesse character, I go out of my way to pick up Impr Exp because the +10AC is irreplaceable--use it as much as you want, whenever you want, and my character's AB's are typically high enough that -10AB isn't a problem. With just his normal hands, he was able to break the Novice to Epic Mod's 40th level Fighter's spine in 18 different places before he even landed his first blow.
When he goes Improved Expertise mode, he has a naked AC of 51. Start throwing items on him, haste him, drink a potion of Cat's Grace and Owl's WIsdom, and his AC can easily shoot over 80. Even a melee class with a 40AB with True Strike cast would still need a Natural 20 to hit, and guess what-- it misses because of either Epic Dodge or Empty Body, or even ShadowEvade if he was feeling frisky.
And on top of that, he still has a modest DR 20/+1. It's nice for when you're fighting the mobs.
edit: Griphook is gonna kill me. I forgot to put the Class and levels in the threadtitle. DOH! _________________ "Son, weaseling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals ... except the weasel." --H.J. Simpson
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 06/07/05 17:44
well, wow, really.
I only got 40 AC naked out of this build.
What would be wrong with single wielding Kama, and freeing up and extra feat for Toughness?
Against single opponents, add Dodge for +1 more to AC. If using Halfling, add another to that for a 43 Naked AC.
Quote: What would be wrong with single wielding Kama, and freeing up and extra feat for Toughness?
I still get 6 attacks with single wielding kama.
Other than reducing damage output-- the build's inherent weakness--nothing. But, with such a high AC, Epic Dodge, Empty Body and HiPS, does the build really need more hit points? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Nice monk build, Grizz *stamps with Xylo's monk seal of approval*
What would be wrong with single wielding Kama, and freeing up and extra feat for Toughness?
I still get 6 attacks with single wielding kama.
The thing that would be "wrong" and I put "wrong" in quotes is that a single kama up to +6 enhancement bonus will do less damage than fists after monk level 16. At monk level 16 you get 1d20 fist damage for 10.5 average damage per hit. A kama is 1d6 damage (3.5 average per hit) and then needs a +7 enhancement bonus to catch up.
So in environments where you can't get +7 weapons, the fists will do more damage. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
I've made many builds along these lines and, frankly, they practically never die from physical combat. In fact when I build a monk/SD dex character I usually make a point of getting Strong Soul, because the things I'm concerned about are death magic and no-save magic. While you can't really do anything about no-save magic except jack your hitpoints up, you can go for higher savs vs death magic. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
On the server I play on the weapons max out at +8.
Also, the bosses and mini-bosses have 80-100+ AB and crush all but the best builds.
It sounds like I can go with Kama since they are +8. This allows me to use gloves that give more stats.
The only thing I'd drop at this point would be expertise. With my testing (there's a level up dojo to test your toons with the best gear on the server) when I went into improved expertise mode, I couldn't hit the high-end mobs.
It's a great build, I just need to tweak it some for my particular PW, which is PvM and has pretty big hitters.
The only thing I'd drop at this point would be expertise. With my testing (there's a level up dojo to test your toons with the best gear on the server) when I went into improved expertise mode, I couldn't hit the high-end mobs.
I would drop those as well. In retrospect, I wouldn't take them at all. You'd free up two feats that way. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Also, the bosses and mini-bosses have 80-100+ AB and crush all but the best builds.
Although, with ABs like that, I can only imagine what their AC must be like. In that case, you are only going to hit on a 20 anyway since your AB can't get above 55== +8 Kama and +6 for +12 Dex(not withstanding party buffs, if any). Therefore, you might as well keep the Expertise line and get that AC as high as it can go and take those Bosses to task. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
The only thing I'd drop at this point would be expertise. With my testing (there's a level up dojo to test your toons with the best gear on the server) when I went into improved expertise mode, I couldn't hit the high-end mobs.
I would drop those as well. In retrospect, I wouldn't take them at all. You'd free up two feats that way.
Also would allow a drop in int that could go to Str or Con.
I suppose Concentration, which you'd lose, isn't exactly vital but I imagine Heal or Listen would also be useful skills for this character. I wouldn't drop INT below 12 for this guy though. WIS could be chopped if you felt like it though to get the CON up a little but dexxers with all those really good defensive feats don't really need so much HP. _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
Grizzled, just to clarify for you. SD 7 is a waste of time anyway. Monks are immune to mind spells, slippery mind lets your reroll the save on mind spells. So slippery mind never gets used anyway.
Grizzled, just to clarify for you. SD 7 is a waste of time anyway. Monks are immune to mind spells, slippery mind lets your reroll the save on mind spells. So slippery mind never gets used anyway.
Syrath
?? SD7?? Where'd you see SD7? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Grizzled, just to clarify for you. SD 7 is a waste of time anyway. Monks are immune to mind spells, slippery mind lets your reroll the save on mind spells. So slippery mind never gets used anyway.
Syrath
?? SD7?? Where'd you see SD7?
Earlier you mentioned that slippery mind would be good if you didn't have perfect self... maybe that's what he meant? _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
In this situation, there really is no point in taking more than 5 Shadowdancer levels unless going for SC V.... Slippery Mind would be nice if this build were Rogue or fighter heavy, but he's got 25 levels of Monk. Nobody's going to mess with his mind. Remember he has Perfect Self.
. Sorry if I get them wildly wrong Griz
*stamps with Xylo's monk seal of approval*