This build is loosly based on the devastating rogue build by Brian "Flameoftheabyss" Quah. I was looking at it a few days ago and when i saw "The uniqueness of this build is the fact that he can deal 84d6 sneak attack damage on his first attack phase", I started wondering if it would be possible to keep a high sneak attack and get 4 attacks in the first attack phase. This build does just that, getting 116d6 sneak attack damage in the first attack phase. It is barely playable but not quite as unbalanced as I feared when I started. The extra BG levels give you a summoned vrock/doom knight which greatly helps him get sneak attacks. Setting traps should also be helpful, I'm mainly thinking traps that disable enemies, leaving them vulnerable to sneak attacks. I'm almost entirely sure that this is the highest sneak attack damage you can get with maximum attacks per round, but I could be wrong. I have little experience with rogues, so I'm hoping others will be able to improve it further.
Race Elf
Starting abilities STR 14 DEX 18 CON 12 WIS 8 INT 14 CHA 10
Attacks (with two normal kamas) normal: 36/33/30/27/24/21/36/33 flurry of blows: 34/34/31/28/25/22/19/34/31 FoB and haste: 34/34/34/31/28/25/22/19/34/31
Damage d6+2 err..
Sneak attack 15d6+3d6+10d6=28d6, avg 98
Totals (with FoB and haste) Total sneak attack on first combat phase 112d6, avg 392 Total sneak attack per round 280d6, avg 980
Hit Points 362 max
Naked AC 27
Saving throws Fort 22 Reflex 31 Will 17
typo's corrected
Edited By griphook on 06/10/05 19:10
Oh s**t. I made a pretty significant mistake and it's too late to edit. The sneaky bastard gets only 3d6 sneak attack from BG, not 4d6, which means all the totals are wrong, and also that it is indeed possible to get better sneak attacks and 10 attacks/round using a [rogue 35/BG 4/monk 1] build, which was my original idea, but I coudn't make that a playable character, especially not at pre-epic levels. Anyway the proper sneak attack is 28d6 which means the sneak attack section should look like this:
Sneak attack 15d6+3d6+10d6=28d6, avg 98
Totals (with FoB and haste) Total sneak attack on first combat phase 112d6, avg 392 Total sneak attack per round 280d6, avg 980
Hopefully this will be corrected by a mod, if so then I am sorry you had to work extra because I messed up.
Edited By pulse cap on 06/10/05 09:49
Quote: Posted 06/10/05 09:45:14 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Oh s**t. I made a pretty significant mistake and it's too late to edit. The sneaky bastard gets only 3d6 sneak attack from BG, not 4d6, which means all the totals are wrong, and also that it is indeed possible to get better sneak attacks and 10 attacks/round using a [rogue 35/BG 4/monk 1] build, which was my original idea, but I coudn't make that a playable character, especially not at pre-epic levels. Anyway the proper sneak attack is 28d6 which means the sneak attack section should look like this:
Sneak attack 15d6+3d6+10d6=28d6, avg 98
Totals (with FoB and haste) Total sneak attack on first combat phase 112d6, avg 392 Total sneak attack per round 280d6, avg 980
Hopefully this will be corrected by a mod, if so then I am sorry you had to work extra because I messed up.
Or, 35Rogue, 4Blackguard, 1 Assassin could get you there too. 18d6Rogue +1d6Blackguard +1d6Assassin +7d6Improved=27d6 sneak dice in one stroke.
The other problem with your build is you have illegal feats. Rogue bonus feats after level 19 do not occur again until 24, 28, 32, 36, 40. With a 29 Rogue, even if you dropped everything for Improved Sneak at bonus feats, you would only have 6d6 Sneak. Something's gotta up there. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 06/10/05 12:27:39 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord Or, 35Rogue, 4Blackguard, 1 Assassin could get you there too. 18d6Rogue +1d6Blackguard +1d6Assassin +7d6Improved=27d6 sneak dice in one stroke.
I may have been unclear on this, but the idea is to have 10 attacks per round as well as high sneak attack, there is no way you can get that without the monk level.
Quote: Posted 06/10/05 12:27:39 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord The other problem with your build is you have illegal feats. Rogue bonus feats after level 19 do not occur again until 24, 28, 32, 36, 40. With a 29 Rogue, even if you dropped everything for Improved Sneak at bonus feats, you would only have 6d6 Sneak. Something's gotta up there.
I have built this in the game and it does work, please try it if you don't believe me. At lvl 23 he reaches rogue 15, getting 8d6 sneak attack and qualifying for imroved sneak attack. After that he takes improved sneak attack on the following levels: 24,27,30,33,36,39 are obvious enough rogue 16 and rogue 19 give you bonus rogue feats, improved sneak attack is among the ones you choose from rogue 24 and rogue 28 give you epic rogue feats and once again improved sneak attack is among the ones you choose from
Edited By pulse cap on 06/10/05 12:50
I think Grizz didn't realize you can take Improved Sneak Attack for regular feats as well and not just as rogue bonus feats, as long as you meet the 8d6 sneak prereq. At least, that's what his comment seems to imply.
I think Grizz didn't realize you can take Improved Sneak Attack for regular feats as well and not just as rogue bonus feats, as long as you meet the 8d6 sneak prereq. At least, that's what his comment seems to imply.
Steve
Thanks the input, I was worried I'd missed something, griz is a bit of a veteran after all, and I'm at work and can't currently verify anything. Anyway, what do you (anyone) think of the build?
Quote: Posted 06/10/05 09:00:01 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Well, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's in your documentation, but a Rogue neither gets a feat at Level 32 generally, or at its 22class level. This is what i was referring to. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I totally see what you mean now, it's a typo but the total number of feats is right. Sorry I didn't understand your first post. The level progression for lvls 32-34 should be:
With that I think everything is as I intended, sorry I was so sloppy with the original post. Would it be ok if I made a new topic with the proper changes or would that be considered spamming?
Well, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's in your documentation, but a Rogue neither gets a feat at Level 32 generally, or at its 22class level. This is what i was referring to.
Oh, heh. That too *chows down on his foot, since it's in his mouth anyway.
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
One question: does all of your attacks on a round work as sneak attacks? I thought it was only the first 1.
cakerj
Quote: Posted 06/12/05 01:04:58 (GMT) -- cakerj
One question: does all of your attacks on a round work as sneak attacks? I thought it was only the first 1.
cakerj
Good question. It may only be the first flurry, but I could be wrong. I was going to get around to asking that question myself. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
One question: does all of your attacks on a round work as sneak attacks? I thought it was only the first 1.
cakerj
Good question. It may only be the first flurry, but I could be wrong. I was going to get around to asking that question myself.
You're right grizz, it's the first flurry of attacks, so in this case the first...3 attacks I think. Could be 4 (dual wielding monks are such a pain, lol). What might help this build would be to drop two of the Improved Sneak Attacks and pick up Knockdown and Improved Knockdown. All attacks against a knocked down opponent are sneak attacks, and you get a +4 to your AB when attacked a prone opponent as well. So, less sneak damage, but many more potential sneak attacks each round. Since just one extra sneak attack per round would make up for the 2d6 difference...definitely a worthwhile change in my book.
Of course, the AB isn't the best for knockdown, but at least Improved Knockdown will counteract the -4 to AB a knockdown normally gets.
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 06/12/05 03:06
Sorry I've haven't replied, I was away over the weekend. I just finished reading them, so here comes a reply..
Quote: Posted 06/12/05 02:49:49 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00 You're right grizz, it's the first flurry of attacks, so in this case the first...3 attacks I think. Could be 4 (dual wielding monks are such a pain, lol).
It is indeed 4 attacks, that's pretty much the only advantage it has over the devastating rogue.
Quote: Posted 06/12/05 02:49:49 (GMT) -- Stravinsky00 What might help this build would be to drop two of the Improved Sneak Attacks and pick up Knockdown and Improved Knockdown.
First off, this was intended as sort of a "novelty" build, and I was quite surprised to find that it was playable at all, I just wanted a huge sneak attack damage .
However, it could be nice to make a more balanced build, in which case your idea would be a great improvement. Rather then dropping improved sneak attack however, I'd go for monk 6. Monks gain knockdown and improved knockdown at level 6, and several other feats along the way. I'm thinking the best idea would be to drop 5 BG which should allow 10 x imroved sneak attack, thus loosing only 2d6 off the BG sneak attack. Compared to dropping 2 imp sneak attack you would gain:
Deflect arrows
120% speed
Still mind (+2 saves vs mind spells)
Purity of body (disease immunity)
1d8 unarmed damage (useless )
+1 AC
+5 stunning fist/day
...but lose:
Inflict serious wounds
Contagion
Inflict critical wounds
Summoned Vrock (you still get a succubus)
Summoned doom knight (you still get a ghast)
10 HP
Stunning fist would of course be VERY useful if it had a higher DC, but as it is it gets a DC of 29. You might want to drop some charisma and strength to raise wisdom to boost this, which would also help AC. The summoned ghast is actually not too bad, as you can (strangely enough) talk to it like an animal companion, feeding it to heal it as well as playing games and wrestling with it. I'll miss the vrock though.
About the posibility of a new topic with the proper stats, I've had no input on this but i expect if I did it would be on the lines of "it's you mess, live with it" So I'll just make a new post under this topic. I have to put it it together first, but it will probably be up before anyone sees this.
Edited By pulse cap on 06/12/05 19:46
I had already made a new post when I noticed
Quote: Posted 06/10/05 09:00:01 (GMT) -- pulse cap typo's corrected
in the starting post. Big thanks to griphook for fixing it and thank God / Allah / Ganesh / Oghma / Offler / Random Fluctuations In The Space-Time Continuum / <fill in your favored deity> and Bioware for the "remove this post" option.
Quote: Posted 06/12/05 19:35:20 (GMT) -- pulse cap However, it could be nice to make a more balanced build, in which case your idea would be a great improvement. Rather then dropping improved sneak attack however, I'd go for monk 6.
So would I. I was just thinking of the way of doing it that was least disruptive to your build as is. Monk 6 would give a number of nice things to a build of this type.
Steve
Right then. So if anyone wants to use this build with improved knockdown it should work pretty well to make it rogue 12/monk 4/BG 4 pre-epic and rogue 29/monk 6/BG 5 final. Just make sure to spend at least three of lvls 21,22,23,24 on rogue, if you don't you can't max out improved sneak attack. Apart from that you should have no problems getting the same feats.
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So I'll just make a new post under this topic. I have to put it it together first, but it will probably be up before anyone sees this.