The Skillful Minstrel - an attempt to come up with a Bard build that is good at melee, yet really utilizes the skillset of the Bard to its fullest potential.
Playable from level 1. Intended (as all my builds are) for PvM.
Combining the high STR of the RDD and the skillset of the Bard into a potent mix of hitting power and excellent skills, the Skillful Minstrel has the capability of combining raw brute force with Bard Song, Curse Song, and various skills to become a force to be reckoned with. Spellcasters are going to have a hell of a time landing any spells that allow saves on this character once his Bard Song is active, as the combined boost provides an excellent +12 on his saves vs spells. As well, his Taunt DC is 70, which is probably going to mean 30% chance of spell failure for any caster within his reach.
Against melee opponents, he has 34 base STR for a +12 modifier on damage, +44 to hit with his weapon of choice, and can further enhance damage and to-hit potential with a level 22 Bard Song and Curse Song. Trying to KD or Disarm the Skillful Minstrel? Good luck. With a whopping 76 in Discipline, that attempt's likely doomed to failure.
Still Spell allows him to utilize all his available spells except the level 6 spells - but if you're lucky enough to be playing where you can get armor with 0% spell failure, you'll really be rocking.
A note: I realize this build doesn't have Dev Crit. Quite frankly, I'm tired of building everything with Dev Crit as the ultimate goal. This build is an attempt to do something a bit different, while still remainaing an effective character.
If Dev Crit is a must, feats can be switched out in order to facilitate it, but you'll lose some of the Epic Skill Focus feats, which is the point of this particular build.
Particular thanks go to Grizzled_Dwarflord for helpful suggestions and also steering me into going the way I did with this build. Good on ya, rockbrother!
C = Concentration D = Discipline L = Lore P = Perform S = Spellcraft Ta= Taunt T = Tumble U = UMD
A note on the skill distribution: You could probably adjust some of this, but I took these skills where I did for a reason, so trying to adjust too much will probably not provide an optimal benefit.
1 )C1, D4, L4, P4, S3, Ta4, T4, U4 2 )C1, D1, L1, save 2 3 )C1, D1, L1, save 4 4 )C1, D1, L1, save 6 5 )C1, D1, L1, save 8 6 )C1, D1, save 11 7 )D1, Ta6, T6, U4, save 1 8 )D1, S5 9 )C4, D1 10)C3, D1, save 1 11)C1, D1, P1, Ta4, save 1 12)D1, Ta1, T5 13)D1, S5 14)C3, D1, save 1 15)D1, S5 16)C2, D1, Save 2 17)Ta4, T5 18)Ta2, U5 19)D1, Ta1, U5 20)D3, P3, Ta1
This is a very strong build. I would suggest dropping Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft for Epic Skill Focus: Concentration. This would make him both Taunt resistant and more of a spell-slinger in Combat.
My other suggestion is that you should consult with me on Names and Titles for your builds. Remember, you don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. Skillful Mistrel Bard sounds like another daisy-sniffing, poet-reading, finger-painting pansy-boy.
How about, "The Bard Lord." _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Quote: This is a very strong build. I would suggest dropping Epic Skill Focus: Spellcraft for Epic Skill Focus: Concentration. This would make him both Taunt resistant and more of a spell-slinger in Combat.
Yep, I meant to make a note of that. I'm considering it, actually - in fact, I'm consodiering a slight rework of the build to nuke the 2 epic FTR levls and take 2 more Bard. That would lose me EWS (don't really need it with the big STR), but I could replace it with ESF:Concentration. Seems more in line with the build concept.
Quote: My other suggestion is that you should consult with me on Names and Titles for your builds. Remember, you don't sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. Skillful Mistrel Bard sounds like another daisy-sniffing, poet-reading, finger-painting pansy-boy.
Sir! Yes, sir!
Quote: How about, "The Bard Lord."
Actually, that was part of the appeal of the name "Skillful Minstrel". Your opponent goes "Look, a pansy-boy" and then quickly falls to Curse Song, KD, Taunt, KD and then the Bard composes a new lay about fooloish foes. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
That's what I did with my defending champion build too. I really didn't care about dev crit, because it is overused, and a good character should be able to win fights just as easily without it as they can with it. Nice build. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Thanks for the kudos, Emrill.
Here's another version, Bard 26/FTR 4/RDD 10. No Epic Weapon Spec, but he probably doesn't really need it.
The nice thing about both these builds, which I forgot to point out in the first one, is the Perform gets boosted to 71 with Bard Song active. This means you actually have a level 24 Curse Song when you use it. It only means a hit of 4 more HPs and a couple less on the enemy's skills, but every little but helps. (If you can boost your CHA by 8, you'll get an added boost to the Curse song of another -2 HPs, -1 AC, and -1 skills for your opponents) _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
To anyone reading this thread: I made an error in the original build.
The naked AC is actually 25 (30 when boosted with the Bard Song) and the AB is +42 with a mundane weapon (+44 when boosted). Hopefully one of the moderators will be so kind as to fix that... *hint, hint* _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Just posted a response and it got lost. Bloody hell.
Anyways, my suggestion was this: Drop Dex to 8. Your Cat's Grace lasts all day and will make up the difference. Raise Con to 15. Drop Epic Prowess in Epic and take Great Con. Combined with Bardsong, this will give you a 116 Hitpoint net increase, 120 if you go 26th Bard. You wont see bards with that many levels running around with that many hitpoints. Or, you could keep Epic Prowess, drop 2 great strength feats, and take 1 Great Con and Toughness. With you Bardsong, this would be an obscene 160 Hitpoint increase. This would also give him a slightly better Fort save. Reflex takes a hit, but who cares about reflexes? Get some boots or something. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 06/13/05 17:31:48 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
To anyone reading this thread: I made an error in the original build.
The naked AC is actually 25 (30 when boosted with the Bard Song) and the AB is +42 with a mundane weapon (+44 when boosted). Hopefully one of the moderators will be so kind as to fix that... *hint, hint*
Actually your AC will be: 10 +8plate+1Dex+8tumble+2Armor Skin+4Draconic Armor=33AC
Bardsong will make it 38. 39 if you go to 26th lvl. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Quote: Posted 06/13/05 17:31:48 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
To anyone reading this thread: I made an error in the original build.
The naked AC is actually 25 (30 when boosted with the Bard Song) and the AB is +42 with a mundane weapon (+44 when boosted). Hopefully one of the moderators will be so kind as to fix that... *hint, hint*
Actually your AC will be: 10 +8plate+1Dex+8tumble+2Armor Skin+4Draconic Armor=33AC
Bardsong will make it 38. 39 if you go to 26th lvl.
But then she's not naked.. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Just posted a response and it got lost. Bloody hell.
Anyways, my suggestion was this: Drop Dex to 8. Your Cat's Grace lasts all day and will make up the difference. Raise Con to 15. Drop Epic Prowess in Epic and take Great Con. Combined with Bardsong, this will give you a 116 Hitpoint net increase, 120 if you go 26th Bard. You wont see bards with that many levels running around with that many hitpoints. Or, you could keep Epic Prowess, drop 2 great strength feats, and take 1 Great Con and Toughness. With you Bardsong, this would be an obscene 160 Hitpoint increase. This would also give him a slightly better Fort save. Reflex takes a hit, but who cares about reflexes? Get some boots or something.
Now, that's an interesting possibility. My only problem with it is this: I hate relying on spells to boost DEX to an acceptable level (just a quirk of mine). Besides, this character won't get Cat's Grace until 4th Bard level, which means level 12 of the build. To me, that's a long time to go without guaranteed access to DEX buffs and a penalty to ranged combat and Reflex saves.
The build doesn't take any GRT STR feats, but as for the bigger CON, a possibility there would be to start with 14 STR, raising CON to 15 at the start. Take GRT CON instead of Epic Prowess and take Toughness instead of Imp Crit (Chances are you'll find a keen weapon anyway - and if you don't, you've got your Keen Edge spell. The extra threat range from Imp Crit will most likely seldom come into play for the most part)
Final STR would be 32 and final CON would be 18. Including the Toughness feat, that's 120 more HPs (154 with bard Song) with only 2 less AB. Quite possibly an acceptable trade-off. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Aye. Or, you could be modest and drop Dex to 10 and take Con to 14. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 06/13/05 17:55:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Quote: Posted 06/13/05 17:31:48 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
To anyone reading this thread: I made an error in the original build.
The naked AC is actually 25 (30 when boosted with the Bard Song) and the AB is +42 with a mundane weapon (+44 when boosted). Hopefully one of the moderators will be so kind as to fix that... *hint, hint*
Actually your AC will be: 10 +8plate+1Dex+8tumble+2Armor Skin+4Draconic Armor=33AC
Bardsong will make it 38. 39 if you go to 26th lvl.
But then she's not naked..
I think you're missing the point. It's not a matter of African or European, it's a matter of weight ratios: I was able to consecutively add a string of integers for the correct answer. And that, my friends, is something to celebrated. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
I think you're missing the point. It's not a matter of African or European, it's a matter of weight ratios: I was able to consecutively add a string of integers for the correct answer. And that, my friends, is something to celebrated.
Who are you who are so wise in the ways of science...? _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
This is a great build, but I think you overlooked the fact that supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farsicle aquatic ceremony _________________ Favorite PW's: Hall of the Worlds, Higher Ground, World of Iniquity.
What is the reason for Artist, Skill Focus Perform, and Epic Skill Focus Perform? The bonuses from perform additions add very little to Bard Song, basically just hit points and skills. On the other hand, it costs the build at least Great Cleave and Improved Knockdown.
Quote: Posted 09/29/08 17:23 (GMT) -- Alcmaeon
What is the reason for Artist, Skill Focus Perform, and Epic Skill Focus Perform? The bonuses from perform additions add very little to Bard Song, basically just hit points and skills. On the other hand, it costs the build at least Great Cleave and Improved Knockdown.
Because it's a Skillful Minstrel, and the focus in on maxing skills. Please read Cinn's description of the build. _________________
Quote: meatpimp
Pish tosh. We should now turn our attention to those dastardly devices that actually TIE one's body to the vehicle. No thank you, I prefer to have inertia throw my body clear of an accident, kindly.
One of the difficulties with the Bard class (as far as i can tell) is that the perform skill far outstripes the range of what a character can achieve. What i mean, looking at this chart http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Bard_song it seems that anything higher than 24 bard can become hard to hit for the bard song/curse bonus'.
In a more elaborate way than what Finn said, he takes these feats to try to get Perform up to 70 WITHOUT resorting to gear. IT only makes it that much easier to achieve with gear. THis is why we call our guild, Epic Character builders, imvho. We (some of us) have tried to achieve the ultimate WITHOUT gear taken into consideration, so that when you add gear, the character becomes even more so..
IOW, Read the description... sorry Finn _________________
An oldie but a goodie. This is one of the few bard builds that actually has a Doctorate in the Performing Arts. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
And one of the few melee builds that lacks Blindfight (I know, I'll be killed for that...)
Quote: Posted 10/01/08 11:37 (GMT) -- Valeren
And one of the few melee builds that lacks Blindfight (I know, I'll be killed for that...)
I don't think I ever noticed that. Goood call. I'd be tempted to drop Power Attack and Cleave for Blindfighting and either IKD or Toughness, or maybe even another Skill Focus in something to keep the theme of the build, like Skill Focus: Search to help him avoid traps. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 09/29/08 23:04 (GMT) -- avado
...he takes these feats to try to get Perform up to 70 WITHOUT resorting to gear...
Just a quick question: Let's say I'm a level 26 Bard with a modified Perform rank of 65 (which gives me a lvl 23 Bard Song). If I sing and get the +12 skill increase from the lvl 23 Bard Song (Perform goes up to 77), and then sing again, will the bonuses be replaced by the lvl 25 Bard Song (needed Perform 75), or nothing will happen? _________________ "I will be the last...and you will go first!" Sarevok, Child of Bhaal
Just a quick question: Let's say I'm a level 26 Bard with a modified Perform rank of 65 (which gives me a lvl 23 Bard Song). If I sing and get the +12 skill increase from the lvl 23 Bard Song (Perform goes up to 77), and then sing again, will the bonuses be replaced by the lvl 25 Bard Song (needed Perform 75), or nothing will happen?
I don't know about regular Bard Song, but it does boost your Curse Song. _________________
Quote: meatpimp
Pish tosh. We should now turn our attention to those dastardly devices that actually TIE one's body to the vehicle. No thank you, I prefer to have inertia throw my body clear of an accident, kindly.
Just a quick question: Let's say I'm a level 26 Bard with a modified Perform rank of 65 (which gives me a lvl 23 Bard Song). If I sing and get the +12 skill increase from the lvl 23 Bard Song (Perform goes up to 77), and then sing again, will the bonuses be replaced by the lvl 25 Bard Song (needed Perform 75), or nothing will happen?
I don't know about regular Bard Song, but it does boost your Curse Song.
Aaaaand I'm pretty sure it boosts your regular song too. Not completely sure anymore, but at least I'm pretty. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
It won't help your original Bard Song, since you've already got that Bard Song active (a second singing does not override the first, even if it's better. This is why if you have more than one Bard in the party, you always let the one with the best Song sing his).
But yes, it does boost the Curse Song. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 10/01/08 11:37 (GMT) -- Valeren
And one of the few melee builds that lacks Blindfight (I know, I'll be killed for that...)
Yes, that's an excellent point. This build was done before I really appreciated the awesomeness that is the Blind Fight feat. The Dwarflord has made some excellent suggestions with regards to feat changes. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
