Playable from level 1 - 40 ..PvM Build

Hi, this is my first official release to this place, and I hope to cme up with builds even better then this one...

I got the idea for this build when someone I was playing with mentioned that they do something similar to this. Except they only ever use it with scimitars and have different feats selected. I created it to allow for complete customization of the user in melee weaponry. It has two version to it. The martial and the exotic version, I'l post the martial first and then post the exotic.

Race: Human (YA I know, but it gets the job done)
Alignment: Any lawful

Stats
Starting (Ending)
STR 16 (26)
DEX 13
CON 16 (20)
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 8

Level Class Feats
1 Fighter 1 Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus
2 Fighter 2 Expertise
3 Fighter 3 Power Attack
4 Fighter 4 Spring Attack
5 Fighter 5
6 Fighter 6 Weapon Specialization, Whirlwind
7 Weapon Master 1 Weapon of Choice, Ki Damage
8 Weapon Master 2
9 Weapon Master 3 Improved Critical
10 Weapon Master 4
11 Weapon Master 5 Increased Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus
12 Weapon Master 6 Toughness
13 Weapon Master 7 Ki Critical
14 Monk 1 Cleave*
15 Monk 2 Great Cleave
16 Monk 3
17 Monk 4
18 Weapon Master 8 Blind-Fight
19 Weapon Master 9
20 Weapon Master 10
21 Weapon Master 11 Great String I
22 Weapon Master 12
23 Weapon Master 13 Epic Superior Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus
24 Weapon Master 14 Overwhelming Critical
25 Weapon Master 15
26 Weapon Master 16 Armor Skin
27 Monk 5 Great Strength II
28 Weapon Master 17
29 Weapon Master 18
30 Weapon Master 19 Devastating Critical, Great Constitution I
31 Weapon Master 20
32 Weapon Master 21
33 Weapon Master 22 Epic Toughness I, Great Constitution II
34 Weapon Master 23
35 Weapon Master 24
36 Weapon Master 25 Epic Touhgness II, Epic Toughness III
37 Monk 6 Knockdown*, Improved Knockdown*
38 Weapon Master 26
39 Weapon Master 27 Epic Toughness IV
40 Weapon Master 28 Epic Toughness V

Stat Progressions
Levels 1 to 32 all go into Strength.
Levels 36 and 40 go into Constitution.

Skills Chart (This is the same for the exotic version)
1 Discipline 4, Intimidate 2, Spellcraft 2, Tumble 2
2 Discipline 1
3 Discipline 1, Intimidate 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
4 Discipline 1
5 Discipline 1, Intimidate 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
6 Discipline 1
7 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
8 Discipline 1
9 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
10 Discipline 1
11 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
12 Discipline 1
13 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
14 Discipline 1, Tumble 9
15 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 1
16 Discipline 1, Tumble 1
17 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
18 Discipline 1
19 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
20 Discipline 1
21 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
22 Discipline 1
23 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
24 Discipline 1
25 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
26 Discipline 1
27 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 10
28 Discipline 1
29 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
30 Discipline 1
31 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
32 Discipline 1
33 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
34 Discipline 1
35 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1
36 Discipline 1
37 Discipline 1, Spellcraft 1, Tumble 10
38 Disclpine 1, Intimidate 37
39 Disclpine 1, Intimidate 1
40 Disclpine 1, Intimidate 1

Final HP maximum of 728.
Final HP minimum of 407.

Final Fort of 31.
Final Ref of 21.
Final Will of 18.

He won't be stoping many mind-effecting things, but get a spellcaster to cast Protection from Alignment on you and you should be fine.

Final Base Attack Bonus of 29.

Attacks a round unarmed and unarmored with no magic items at all. (He is part monk so he can use flurry of blows.)
+35/+35/+32/+29/+26/+23/+20
Damage: 1-6 + 8 (x2) (if unarmed strike was your weapon of choice then its [15-20 / x3])

Final Armor Class with a mundane full plate is 30.
Naked Armor Class of 22.

With +12 ability gear this character can have an insanely huge armor class and damage.

With +20 armor (full plate, tower shield, helmet, boots, cape, amulet, etc.) he can reach an Armor Class of 100. Which I think isn't to bad for my first build.

I believe that's everything, I will post the exotic version at a later date. Right now fingers are starting to hurt . I would much apreciate on constructive critisism on everyone's part. Thank you.
_________________
The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing...

Edited By griphook on 06/17/05 01:15

ahem... unarmed strike cannot be your weapon of choice... its not a weapon...

but you could do kamas and get a fairly deadly kama monk with a build similar to yours
just take monk at lvl 1

you AB with a choice weapon should be (29) base + 8 (STR) + 7 WM + 4 from feats (some of which you did not pick)

thats an AB of 48, which a choice weapon

which is very good, especially for a monk.

but it would seem that you have a lot of +con for no apparent reason, other than HP, which isn't reason enough, and a lot of Epic Toughness.

In many cases, the amounf of HP you have is only relevant to a certain degree. if you can hit more often and do more damage to your enemy faster, than you can take him down faster, and thats worth a lot more.
but thats just an opinion

Edited By aluka on 06/15/05 01:20

I want this feat:

Quote: 21 Weapon Master 11 Great String I

I figure that's great for a lute-playing Bard!

Just joking. Anyway, CON 16 is really pretty good and - coupled with the Toughness feat - it provides lots of HPs. In light of that, I'd say don't bother with the GRT CON feats or raising CON at all. Take all your ability increases in STR and get as many GRT STR feats as you can (I'm pretty sure you can easily get 6) Use your WM bonus feats for Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, Over Crit, Dev Crit, Epic WF, and the leftovers for Epic Toughness. Like this:

21 Weapon Master 11 Great STR I
22 Weapon Master 12
23 Weapon Master 13 Epic Superior Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus
24 Weapon Master 14 GRT STR II
25 Weapon Master 15
26 Weapon Master 16 Over Crit
27 Monk 5 Great Strength III
28 Weapon Master 17
29 Weapon Master 18
30 Weapon Master 19 GRT STR IV, Devastating Critical
31 Weapon Master 20
32 Weapon Master 21
33 Weapon Master 22 GRT STR V, Epic Prowess
34 Weapon Master 23
35 Weapon Master 24
36 Weapon Master 25 GRT STR VI, Armor Skin
37 Monk 6 Knockdown*, Improved Knockdown*
38 Weapon Master 26
39 Weapon Master 27 Epic Toughness I (or your choice)
40 Weapon Master 28 Epic Toughness II

This way, you end up with 32 STR, so the DC of your Dev Crit is higher, as well as your AB and damage.

You'll also end up with +4 better AB overall. You still get Dev Crit at level 30.

I'd also consider switching Blind Fight to level 3, take Power Attack at level 15, and Great Cleave at level 18.

One last thing: I'd spread the Monk levels out in pre-epic, like you do in epic levels. Take them at levels 2, 7, 12, and 17. That way you can skill dump into Tumble to get the benefits of the AC boost ASAP. Makes it a bit more playable.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 01:17:01 (GMT) -- aluka

ahem... unarmed strike cannot be your weapon of choice... its not a weapon...

but you could do kamas and get a fairly deadly kama monk with a build similar to yours
just take monk at lvl 1

you AB with a choice weapon should be (29) base + 8 (STR) + 7 WM + 4 from feats (some of which you did not pick)

thats an AB of 48, which a choice weapon

which is very good, especially for a monk.

but it would seem that you have a lot of +con for no apparent reason, other than HP, which isn't reason enough, and a lot of Epic Toughness.

In many cases, the amounf of HP you have is only relevant to a certain degree. if you can hit more often and do more damage to your enemy faster, than you can take him down faster, and thats worth a lot more.
but thats just an opinion

Great points Aluka, but I don't think the author ever intended for the build to specialize in Unarmed Strike - he leaves the weapon of choice open to the reader.

And I agree that kama would be a great choice, especially coupled with the Dual Wield feats

Kaliban

PS - Curse you Cinnabar! Stealing my lute joke out from under me!
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"Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover

Edited By Kaliban99 on 06/15/05 02:00



There wouldn't be any advantage with kamas though, because he'll be in plate mail won't he, so he's lose the Monk attack schedule? (If not, where's his AC going to come from?)
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: 

Attacks a round unarmed and unarmored with no magic items at all. (He is part monk so he can use flurry of blows.)
+35/+35/+32/+29/+26/+23/+20
Damage: 1-6 + 8 (x2) (if unarmed strike was your weapon of choice then its [15-20 / x3])


and as always, CD is right.
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 02:13:43 (GMT) -- aluka

and as always, CD is right.

Would that were true!
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 02:02:15 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din


There wouldn't be any advantage with kamas though, because he'll be in plate mail won't he, so he's lose the Monk attack schedule? (If not, where's his AC going to come from?)

Doh! I missed that (because all my monks run around in robes I assumed this one did).

Well then, what does the 6 levels of monk bring really? Cleave, and Improved Knockdown (at character level 37!). You lose the monk attack schedule. You lose monk speed.

Wouldn't you be better off with a few levels of Rogue or Bard for Tumble and UMD?

Thoughts? What am I missing?

Thanks,
K.
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"Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover he really get two feats (sort of)
he bypasses power attack, and goes straight for cleave.. so thats kinds like two feats ???
maybe?
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 02:42:53 (GMT) -- aluka

he really get two feats (sort of)
he bypasses power attack, and goes straight for cleave.. so thats kinds like two feats ???
maybe?

Still ends up having to take Power Attack to get Great Cleave though. I figured the Monk was for the speed boost (do you lose that in armor?), as well as free KD/IKD and Tumble as a class skill.

A Monk level early would work nicely though, as you could get the benefit of Cleave right away.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 03:15:36 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din

Quote: Posted 06/15/05 02:42:53 (GMT) -- aluka

he really get two feats (sort of)
he bypasses power attack, and goes straight for cleave.. so thats kinds like two feats ???
maybe?

Still ends up having to take Power Attack to get Great Cleave though. I figured the Monk was for the speed boost (do you lose that in armor?), as well as free KD/IKD and Tumble as a class skill.
A Monk level early would work nicely though, as you could get the benefit of Cleave right away.

Cinn,

You're right about Power Attack needed to open up Great Cleave (and Overwhelming Crit & Dev Crit if one goes that route).

Yes, you lose the speed boost in armor. There are reports of sporadic 'features' in-game where you are able to retain the speed boost, but this is sporadic.

As for gaining "free KD/IKD", I'm thinking it's not such a big deal in this build where it comes in at level 37 - more like an afterthought. I'd rather go with Rogue or Bard for Tumble and UMD throughout the life of the character, and try to take the Power Attack, Cleave, KD & IKD feats.

He could spare a few Great Strengths or Strings to take those feats.

Kaliban.
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"Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover

Edited By Kaliban99 on 06/15/05 03:30

Even with the monk's cleave you still need power attack to get great cleave. I guess deflect arrows and the knockdowns are nice. Bard or Rogue would seem to be a better choice than monk. He should do this though,

Increase STR at 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 and 40
Increase CON at 32, 36

20 Weapon Master 10
21 Weapon Master 11 Great Strength I
22 Weapon Master 12
23 Weapon Master 13 Epic Superior Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus
24 Weapon Master 14 Great Strength II
25 Weapon Master 15
26 Weapon Master 16 Overwhelming Critical
27 Monk 5 Great Constitution I
28 Weapon Master 17
29 Weapon Master 18
30 Weapon Master 19 Devastating Critical, Great Constitution II
31 Weapon Master 20
32 Weapon Master 21
33 Weapon Master 22 Epic Prowess, Great Constitution III
34 Weapon Master 23
35 Weapon Master 24
36 Weapon Master 25 Damage Reduction I, Damage Reduction II
37 Monk 6 Knockdown*, Improved Knockdown*
38 Weapon Master 26
39 Weapon Master 27 Great Constitution IV
40 Weapon Master 28 Damage Reduction III

He would end up with a 1 point higher AB, 60 fewer hitpoints a +1 to his fortitude save and 9 points of damage reduction (which after 7 hits will prove more valuable than the 60 hitpoints).
_________________
Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.

Edited By Mithdradates on 06/15/05 03:30

Quote: Posted 06/15/05 03:29:02 (GMT) -- Mithdradates
I guess deflect arrows and the knockdowns are nice.

Mith, that would be another thing that's moot for this build. This was brought up a few days ago in another thread and testing showed Deflect Arrows doesn't function if anything is held in the mainhand (at least that's what was reported), so even that feat would be disabled with this build.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! I thought it worked as long as you had a free hand, e.g. a kama in one hand with no shield. I'll have to check this.
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do. What in blazes are you all talking about? He gets Power Attack at Level 3.
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"Well, he's kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace 'accidentally' with 'repeatedly,' and replace 'dog' with 'son.'" ----Lionel Hutz I just made a monk and tested. You do need your main hand free for deflect arrows to work.
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Two wrongs don't make a right but three lefts do.
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 04:06:28 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

What in blazes are you all talking about? He gets Power Attack at Level 3.

Good squinting, GD!

We know that Power Attack is there! We're evaluating what 6 levels of Monk adds to the build, and what is needed if you choose another class.

Power Attack came up because we pointed out that even a Monk (who gets Cleave for free at Monk 1) needs to take Power Attack to get Great Cleave.... Oh, never mind. Quit waving your arms about, and hold onto the bar before you tumble off your stool....
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"Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 05:51:19 (GMT) -- Kaliban99

Oh, never mind. Quit waving your arms about, and hold onto the bar before you tumble off your stool....

Damn, how could you tell?
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! Excelent points, all of them. The 6th monk level at lvl 37 is useful two fold. One, it obviously brings with it Improved Knockdown, and two, it allows you to maximize Tumble. And I'm sorry for all the spelling errors. Well here's the exotic version.

Exotic Master

Same race and starting abilities.
Also uses the same skill progression and abilitiy as the Generic Master.

Level Class Feats
1 Fighter Dodge, Mobility, Exotic Weapon Proficiency
2 Fighter Weapon Focus
3 Fighter Expertise
4 Fighter Spring Attack
5 Fighter
6 Fighter Weapon Specialization, Whirlwind Attack
7 Weapon Master Weapon of Choice, Ki Damage
8 Weapon Master
9 Weapon Master Improved Critical
10 Weapon Master
11 Weapon Master Increased Multiplier, Superior Weapon Focus
12 Weapon Master Power Attack
13 Weapon Master Ki Critical
14 Monk Cleave
15 Monk Great Cleave
16 Monk
17 Monk
18 Weapon Master Toughness (Blind-fight is lost)
19 Weapon Master
20 Weapon Master
21 Weapon Master Great Strength I
22 Weapon Master
23 Weapon Master Epic Superior Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Focus
24 Weapon Master Overwhelming Critical
25 Weapon Master
26 Weapon Master Armor Skin
27 Monk Great Strength II
28 Weapon Master
29 Weapon Master
30 Weapon Master Devastating Critical, Great Constitution I
31 Weapon Master
32 Weapon Master
33 Weapon Master Epic Toughness I, Great Constitution II
34 Weapon Master
35 Weapon Master
36 Weapon Master Epic Toughness II, Epic Toughness III
37 Monk Knockdown, Improved Knockdown
38 Weapon Master
39 Weapon Master Epic Toughness IV
40 Weapon Master Epic Toughness V

For the most part, it is identical to the Generic Master. The only two things that are different are that of course it uses exotic weapons, and that it looses the Blind-Fight feat. (I really just threw that in at that level because it was the only feat that I was thinking of adding as a "just throw it in there" feat.)

Same stats, saves, skills, attacks, everything. Have fun .
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The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing... I completely forgot to mention this . Thank you griphook for reminding me . This build is playable from level 1 to 40, and I believe it to be a well suited PvM character. I myself am not one for PvP, so I haven't actually used it like that.
_________________
The only true wisdom is knowing that you know nothing...
Quote: Race: Human (YA I know, but it gets the job done)
Alignment: Any lawful

Stats
Starting (Ending)
STR 16 (26)
DEX 13
CON 16 (20)
INT 13
WIS 8
CHA 8

I need to bring up a couple of months old build, but:
Go Dwarf!!! I can't believe this hasn't been said already. You would lose a lvl 1 feat, ( ) thats it, you get one more ac in return(close to two...), and get dex and wis buffers, and you are probably good to go with kama's, and that even removes the need of the exotic weapon human-extra-1st-level feat to! a dwarf start stats would look like this:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 16
int 14
Wis 10
cha 6

A dwarf looks darn good, eh?

Edited By Grimnir77 on 08/12/05 16:59

Yeah, it's an old build/conversation, but...


make this char a Dexer and you get a boost for AC as well as AB.


My version ends with:

AC(naked): 36
BAB: 29 (52 w/mundane kama)

attack schedule:
single: 52/49/46/43/40/37
dual: 50/50/47/47/44/41/38/35 A dexer with no uncanny dodge? Ouch!
Quote: Posted 06/15/05 02:02:15 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din


There wouldn't be any advantage with kamas though, because he'll be in plate mail won't he, so he's lose the Monk attack schedule? (If not, where's his AC going to come from?)

Yeah, but plate mail and a tower shield only marginally compares to +12 dex and +12 wis. You get a bit more AC if you can get a magic shield, but you lose a bit of speed and your attack schedule (more than made up for if you dual wield).
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CATS!