Ac = 34 naked Unarmed attk = 39/36/33/30/27/24 Two mundane Kamas = 37/34/31/28/25/22 off hand 37/34 Fort 29 Reflex 40 Will 26 somewhat low, but you're immune to mind affecting spells SR 30 Max hps 480 I believe unless I added wrong. It's possible lol!
I was trying to make a Ninja type character that was good at martial arts ( unarmed strike) and Ninja like weapons (kamas + shurikens) although I guess you could go Katana if re-worked the build dropping the two weapon feats.
I think overall a very flexible character with all the rogue abilities, UMD, 5d6 sneak, trap setting etc. Throwing in epic dodge and defensive roll with empty body x2 for 50% concealment is a nice combo. There are several ways the build could be changed and I'm looking for any input / ideas and discussions on tweaking the build to make it better.
I tried to get the improved Ki strike, but couldn't select it? The prereqs state " Prerequisite: Monk, Ki Strike +3, 25th level" Should it say monk level 25? I couldn't take either ki strike +4 or +5 Either at player level 25 or 30.
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Edited By ManOWarr on 06/23/05 19:18
Quote: Posted 06/23/05 19:07:34 (GMT) -- ManOWarr
I tried to get the improved Ki strike, but couldn't select it? The
prereqs state " Prerequisite: Monk, Ki Strike +3, 25th level" Should
it say monk level 25? I couldn't take either ki strike +4 or +5 Either
at player level 25 or 30.
Thanks, Mano
You need WIS 21+ to qualify. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Here you go:
First, drop starting Dex to 15 and raise Wis to 14. Then, drop Dodge and Mobility and take LoH and Ambidexterity at 1st level. Next move WF: Unarmed strike from Epic to 6th level. Then drop Epic Toughness and take Epic Prowess at that CoT bonus feat. Next, take Great Dex at level 27 and 33(which are now open). Then, drop Blinding Strike for another Great Dex. He should now have a 30 Dex and a 14 Wisdom. Better Will Save, better reflex save, 2 higher AC, 1 higher AB, and also have +1 to all saves due to LoH.
As you all were. I'll be in the area all day. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
First, drop starting Dex to 15 and raise Wis to 14. Then, drop Dodge and Mobility and take LoH and Ambidexterity at 1st level. Next move WF: Unarmed strike from Epic to 6th level. Then drop Epic Toughness and take Epic Prowess at that CoT bonus feat. Next, take Great Dex at level 27 and 33(which are now open). Then, drop Blinding Strike for another Great Dex. He should now have a 30 Dex and a 14 Wisdom. Better Will Save, better reflex save, 2 higher AC, 1 higher AB, and also have +1 to all saves due to LoH.
As you all were. I'll be in the area all day.
*genuflects* Hail the Dwarflord! _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/23/05 21:08:27 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
First, drop starting Dex to 15 and raise Wis to 14. Then, drop Dodge and Mobility and take LoH and Ambidexterity at 1st level. Next move WF: Unarmed strike from Epic to 6th level. Then drop Epic Toughness and take Epic Prowess at that CoT bonus feat. Next, take Great Dex at level 27 and 33(which are now open). Then, drop Blinding Strike for another Great Dex. He should now have a 30 Dex and a 14 Wisdom. Better Will Save, better reflex save, 2 higher AC, 1 higher AB, and also have +1 to all saves due to LoH.
First, drop starting Dex to 15 and raise Wis to 14. Then, drop Dodge and Mobility and take LoH and Ambidexterity at 1st level. Next move WF: Unarmed strike from Epic to 6th level. Then drop Epic Toughness and take Epic Prowess at that CoT bonus feat. Next, take Great Dex at level 27 and 33(which are now open). Then, drop Blinding Strike for another Great Dex. He should now have a 30 Dex and a 14 Wisdom. Better Will Save, better reflex save, 2 higher AC, 1 higher AB, and also have +1 to all saves due to LoH.
As you all were. I'll be in the area all day.
LORDS OF LIGHT!!! Awesome advice There Grizz!!!! That's what I'm talking about!!! Very nice suggestions. I was wanting to get wf unarmed much earlier, but couldn't see the forrest for the trees. I had a heck of a time as it was with trying to figure out the leveling selection. I even tried more CoT in pre-epic, but somehow ended up with less bab at 20, lol. So I went back to the format I used. I'm sure it had to do with the rule of 4's for rogue and Monk. Any doable way to get the improved Ki strike without totally cripling the build?
Thanks, again, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Okay here's the Ninja of Torm ( Grizzled Dwarflord Director's Cut version), lol
Ninja of Torm!!
Monk 20 / Rogue 10 / CoT 10
Playable from level 1 - 40...PvM Build , could possibly PvP
Ac = 35 naked Unarmed attk = 39/36/33/30/27/24 Two mundane Kamas = 37/34/31/28/25/22 off hand 37/34 Fort 30 Reflex 42 Will 28 somewhat low, but you're immune to mind affecting spells SR 30 Max hps 480 I believe unless I added wrong. It's possible lol!
I was trying to make a Ninja type character that was good at martial arts ( unarmed strike) and Ninja like weapons (kamas) although I guess could go Katana if re-worked the build dropping the two weapon feats.
Overall a very flexible character with all the rogue abilities, UMD, 5d6 sneak,trap setting etc. Throwing in epic dodge and defensive roll with empty body x2 for 50% concealment is a nice combo.
Okay Grizz, if you would, please double check me and make sure I got your advice correct in the re-build.
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
I forgot to add some of the other changes in the build affected by the stat changes and it won't let me edit my previous post. Here this should be the corrected build now I believe :
Ninja of Torm!!
Monk 20 / Rogue 10 / CoT 10
Playable from level 1 - 40...PvM Build , could possibly PvP
Ac = 36 naked Unarmed attk = 40/37/34/31/28/25 Two mundane Kamas = 38/35/32/29/26/23 off hand 38/35 Fort 30 Reflex 42 Will 28 somewhat low, but you're immune to mind affecting spells SR 30 Max hps 400 I believe unless I added wrong. It's possible lol!
I was trying to make a Ninja type character that was good at martial arts ( unarmed strike) and Ninja like weapons (kamas) although I guess could go Katana if re-worked the build dropping the two weapon feats.
Overall a very flexible character with all the rogue abilities, UMD, 5d6 sneak,trap setting etc. Throwing in epic dodge and defensive roll with empty body x2 for 50% concealment is a nice combo.
Okay Grizz, if you would, please double check me and make sure I got your advice correct in the re-build.
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Edited By ManOWarr on 06/24/05 00:47
I know I'm missing something so please forgive my ignorance but doesn't the monk allow you to use kamas with the same AB and #oA as if they were unarmed?
-edit- or is that only if they are using only ONE kama?
Edited By Alceryes on 06/24/05 00:59
Quote: Posted 06/24/05 00:45:27 (GMT) -- ManOWarr
I forgot to add some of the other changes in the build affected by the stat changes and it won't let me edit my previous post. Here this should be the corrected build now I believe :
Ninja of Torm!!
Monk 20 / Rogue 10 / CoT 10
Playable from level 1 - 40...PvM Build , could possibly PvP
Ac = 36 naked Unarmed attk = 40/37/34/31/28/25 Two mundane Kamas = 38/35/32/29/26/23 off hand 38/35 Fort 30 Reflex 42 Will 28 somewhat low, but you're immune to mind affecting spells SR 30 Max hps 400 I believe unless I added wrong. It's possible lol!
I was trying to make a Ninja type character that was good at martial arts ( unarmed strike) and Ninja like weapons (kamas) although I guess could go Katana if re-worked the build dropping the two weapon feats.
Overall a very flexible character with all the rogue abilities, UMD, 5d6 sneak,trap setting etc. Throwing in epic dodge and defensive roll with empty body x2 for 50% concealment is a nice combo.
Okay Grizz, if you would, please double check me and make sure I got your advice correct in the re-build.
Thanks, Mano
I only see that you didn't change your ending Dex to 30, still at 28.
On a side note, 28 Will save isn't really "low", though it is the Ninja's low save, but he has Still Mind and Perfect Self, so any Will Save discussion is moot. And besides, most of my characters would kill to have a 28 Will Save.
Also, in keeping with the Ninja tradition, you could afford to drop LoH and take Improved Initiative. Just a thought. You would notice the difference in pre-epic, and by Epic it wouldn't really matter and wouldn't be as important as, say, +1 to all saves. But +4 initiative could give him the edge coupled with his Monk speed. Just a thought. But nothing that changes the build, just customization.
I know I'm missing something so please forgive my ignorance but doesn't the monk allow you to use kamas with the same AB and #oA as if they were unarmed?
-edit- or is that only if they are using only ONE kama?
He gets the same attack progression, but because they are weapons, he must suffer the same dualwield penalties that the rest of mortalkind must endure. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 06/24/05 00:58:16 (GMT) -- Alceryes
I know I'm missing something so please forgive my ignorance but doesn't the monk allow you to use kamas with the same AB and #oA as if they were unarmed?
-edit- or is that only if they are using only ONE kama?
You're correct if he's only using one Kama then his attacks are the same as unarmed. When using the two kamas he gets two additional attacks from the off hand, but with the dual wield penalties as Grizzled_dwarflord stated.
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Also, in keeping with the Ninja tradition, you could afford to drop LoH and take Improved Initiative. Just a thought. You would notice the difference in pre-epic, and by Epic it wouldn't really matter and wouldn't be as important as, say, +1 to all saves. But +4 initiative could give him the edge coupled with his Monk speed. Just a thought. But nothing that changes the build, just customization.
Oh, and Torm has Ninjas?
Thanks again for all your suggestions!!! I always wondered exactly what those iniative feats did in the game. I really will probably always be using a scroll or wand to cast invisibility or improved invis when going through dungeons etc. Wouldn't that generally give me the jump on someone? of coarse except if they have true seeing.
Also what are your thoughts on the improved ki strike feats? Are they really worth getting and is it doable with this build and at what cost? I think getting to 21 wis would basically wipe out just about everything else. I kind of feel that if you go that route I'd need to just forget the whole dual wield altogether and just go all out fists. What dou you think?
I also have been pondering a Monk Cleric CoT build and think it might could be pretty good.
"Oh, and Torm has Ninjas?" Well, I guess he has one now, Lol.
Thanks again, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Also, in keeping with the Ninja tradition, you could afford to drop LoH and take Improved Initiative. Just a thought. You would notice the difference in pre-epic, and by Epic it wouldn't really matter and wouldn't be as important as, say, +1 to all saves. But +4 initiative could give him the edge coupled with his Monk speed. Just a thought. But nothing that changes the build, just customization.
Oh, and Torm has Ninjas?
Thanks again for all your suggestions!!! I always wondered exactly what those iniative feats did in the game. I really will probably always be using a scroll or wand to cast invisibility or improved invis when going through dungeons etc. Wouldn't that generally give me the jump on someone? of coarse except if they have true seeing.
Initially, yes, you would have the jump. But you will have many encounters in which monsters don't die in the first round. And, unless something has changed, intitiative is rolled at the beginning of each round to determine who attacks first. As your Dex increases, you'll begin to win these everytime, but there are still villains out there who are just as fast as you.
Quote: Also what are your thoughts on the improved ki strike feats? Are they really worth getting and is it doable with this build and at what cost? I think getting to 21 wis would basically wipe out just about everything else. I kind of feel that if you go that route I'd need to just forget the whole dual wield altogether and just go all out fists. What dou you think?
I had the same question once, and a wiseman, Syrath perhaps, stated that it isn't really worth the investment, especially since you very cleary made a dualwield Kama investment. The point being the Ki Strike will help you to pierce high DR opponents, but you could do that just as easily with magic kamas, and still wear some nifty bracers or gloves or gauntlets.
Also, it's not Wisdom that determines if you qualify for Ki Strike 4 and 5, but Monk level. For Ki Strike +4 you need to be 25th. For +5 you need to be 30th. You would have to make an entirely different build to get those, and even then I would tell you to pick up something different.
To summarize, in a low to no-magic world, my guess is that Ki Strike could be King, especially if you made a Dex/Wis based 30Monk/10CoT and could also lay down some wicked Stunning Fists and or Quivering Palm. In such a build, even if you started with a 15Wis and 16Dex, you could easily get a 32 Dex and 20Wis, a 42 natural AC, and a 40AB, with all CoT taken in Epic. And saves that people would kill for. Not bad, eh? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Grizz, are you sure the WIS qualification isn't there for the Imp Ki Strike feats as well? I'm deferring to you, as I'm not Monk savvy (except those ones in the closet, of course ), but I was sure there was a WIS requirement as well for those feats. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 06/24/05 15:36:26 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Grizz, are you sure the WIS qualification isn't there for the Imp Ki Strike feats as well? I'm deferring to you, as I'm not Monk savvy (except those ones in the closet, of course ), but I was sure there was a WIS requirement as well for those feats.
You might be right. I checked Grimoire and it didn't say anything about Wisdom, but when I tested it with a 14Wisdom Monk, it wasn't available at Lvl 25. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Quote: Posted 06/24/05 15:36:26 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Grizz, are you sure the WIS qualification isn't there for the Imp Ki Strike feats as well? I'm deferring to you, as I'm not Monk savvy (except those ones in the closet, of course ), but I was sure there was a WIS requirement as well for those feats.
You might be right. I checked Grimoire and it didn't say anything about Wisdom, but when I tested it with a 14Wisdom Monk, it wasn't available at Lvl 25.
Well Demon Dogs!!! Lol, I couldn't resist. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
It was my understanding that the Attack Bonus on gloves also counts toward penetrating DR. At least, that's what numerous posts and other people's tests have lead me to believe (mostly Mootiooze IIRC). If that is in fact the case, then the Improved Ki Strike feats are definitely in the running for most useless feats ever.
It was my understanding that the Attack Bonus on gloves also counts toward penetrating DR. At least, that's what numerous posts and other people's tests have lead me to believe (mostly Mootiooze IIRC). If that is in fact the case, then the Improved Ki Strike feats are definitely in the running for most useless feats ever.
It was my understanding that the Attack Bonus on gloves also counts toward penetrating DR. At least, that's what numerous posts and other people's tests have lead me to believe (mostly Mootiooze IIRC). If that is in fact the case, then the Improved Ki Strike feats are definitely in the running for most useless feats ever.
Steve
Agreed. On both accounts.
Cool, now I don't feel so bad about not getting them, lol. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
), but I was sure there was a WIS requirement as well for those feats.