This is the revised build based off of suggestions from M1ke47, Amazon Queen, and Pulse cap. I think I corrected all the changes Thanks again for the suggestions!!
You defile a forest or grove and he'll hunt you down and make you pay,
Meant to be playable from level 1 to 40, PvM.
Druid 13 / Ranger 10 / Shifter 17
Human, any neutral, STR 14 Dex 14 Con 15 (16) Int 14 Wis 12 (26) Cha 8
1: Druid, dodge, Luck of heroes 2: Ranger Favored Enemy: Undead 3: Ranger Weapon Focus (longbow) 4: Druid Con +1 5: Ranger 6: Druid extend spell (for buffs) 7: Druid 8: Ranger Wisdom +1 9: Druid Alertness 10:Shifter 11:Shifter 12:Shifter Wisdom +1,Empower Spell 13: Shifter 14: Druid 15: Ranger Favored Enemy: Elves(Drow), Imp Crit longbow 16: Druid Wisdom +1 17: Druid 18: Ranger Zen Archery about the time your wis will help 19: Ranger 20: Ranger Wisdom +1 21: Shifter Armor skin or whatever it's a free feat 22: Shifter 23: Shifter 24: Shifter Wisdom +1, Great Wisdom I 25: Shifter 26: Shifter 27: Shifter Undead Shape 28: Ranger Wisdom +1 29: Druid 30: Shifter Great Wisdom II 31: Shifter Great Wisdom III 32: Druid Wisdom +1 33: Druid Great Wisdom IV 34: Shifter 35: Shifter 36: Shifter wisdom +1,Great Wisdom V,Toughness 37: Druid 38: Druid 39: Shifter Outsider shape 40: Ranger Wisdom +1, Epic Prowess
All naked ac's Ac 18 in human, 36 kobold, 33 Rak, 31 risen, 28 Minotaur ab mundane bow in human form 37/32/27/22 Fort 31 (39)vs spells Reflex 21 (29)vs spells Will 28 (36)vs spells hp 500 human more in all other forms
He can stalk as a ranger high ms and hide,very stealthy kobold commando.He can set and disable traps. Has multiple forms to help in different situations like all shifters.He has unlimited empowered Ice storms in Rak form, couldn't get maximized with levels taken. Can Buff himself and party,has harm/heal, can nuke some with spells etc.
You probably could end up with con 18 using two great con's at the toughness and armor skin feats, but you actually come out better in ways by taking the feats I took, because the armor skin and toughness carry over to all shifted forms and just 18 con doesn't as it gets overwritten on some forms. I think I've correctly put everything in the build now.
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Edited By griphook on 07/06/05 13:57
My original idea was for a Ranger shifter with Bane of Enemies, but I just couldn't get it with the shifter shapes I wanted. See the discussion thread.
Thanks again, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
I would take another ranger level towords the end to max discipline and perhaps move silently. Also if you drop the sarting CON by one raising STR and WIS by one each you will heve the same ability scores by level 4 as the current build has at level 8, which could be used to free up a great wisdom feat.
EDIT: If you will be spending a lot of time shapeshifted you may want to lower some of the physical stats (STR,DEX,CON) altogether in favor of wisdom, but that would of course make the first few levels a lot harder.
Edited By pulse cap on 07/04/05 10:12
A nice idea. I've been messing about with shifter builds that don't include monk and they are hard work. I think PulseCap is right about including a ranger level at the end to max out Discipline. 13th level Druid would still get 7th level spells and as a minor bonus you'd get an extra favoured enemy. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Aye, as I said in the other topic, you could use the lv 38 druid level to take ranger instead and pick up epic prowess and max all the ranger skills as well, that will make the epic kobold a truly amazing sneaker.
Looks excellent and full of fun though.
OK, I have now checked out the "other topic" and found that many of my ideas had already been discussed there. I guess I should have had a look at it before posting, but if you want people to look at another discussion before posting you might want to add a link to it. If anyone else is interested it can be found here.
Another idea might be to swop WF & IC from Longbow to Shortsword. Then you could duel-wield in human form, and your kobold commando form (which will probably be the one you spend most time in) would also benefit. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Quote: Posted 07/04/05 10:07:07 (GMT) -- pulse cap
I would take another ranger level towords the end to max discipline and perhaps move silently. Also if you drop the sarting CON by one raising STR and WIS by one each you will heve the same ability scores by level 4 as the current build has at level 8, which could be used to free up a great wisdom feat.
EDIT: If you will be spending a lot of time shapeshifted you may want to lower some of the physical stats (STR,DEX,CON) altogether in favor of wisdom, but that would of course make the first few levels a lot harder.
Hi Pulse,
Thanks for your suggestions!! I originally did have the last level as ranger and it seemed I couldn't get the empowered ice storm. I may try that again though as I maybe confused. I tried several different level combos and I might be getting empowered and maximized confused.
Awesome tip on the starting stats!! I can't believe I missed that. That's why it's great being able to post builds and get feedback!!
A nice idea. I've been messing about with shifter builds that don't include monk and they are hard work. I think PulseCap is right about including a ranger level at the end to max out Discipline. 13th level Druid would still get 7th level spells and as a minor bonus you'd get an extra favoured enemy.
Hi Amazon,
Thanks! Yeah, I agree not using monk in a shifter build seems difficult, because alot of times all the wisdom to get the epic shapes really seems wasted unless going monk for the ac. I agree with taking the Ranger level last and will change that.
I played with the idea of wp focus short sword etc, but feel with zen archery at least I'm using the high wisdom for something. Also when in human form he is more of a wisdom archer and spell caster. Then he'll shift when he goes into melee to risen or gargoyle whatever, or shift into kobold use hipps and get distance before starting to shoot arrows again. He can also set traps etc and lead monsters into the traps by shooting them. You get the idea. I tried to make him to be a flexible character with many different options. Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions!!!
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Quote: Posted 07/04/05 22:03:33 (GMT) -- ManOWarr
I tried to make him to be a flexible character with many different options. Thanks again to everyone for their suggestions!!!
That is the beauty of shifters. They are very flexible and can be played in many different ways. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
The Mimicking Hunter or Nature's avenger
You defile a forest or grove and he'll hunt you down and make you pay, lol.
Meant to be playable from level 1 to 40, PvM.
Druid 13 / Ranger 10 / Shifter 17 Human, any neutral, STR 14 Dex 14 Con 15 (18) Int 14 Wis 13 (26) Cha 8
1: Druid, dodge, Luck of heroes 2: Ranger Favored Enemy: Undead 3: Ranger Weapon Focus (longbow) 4: Druid Con +1 5: Ranger 6: Druid extend spell (for buffs) 7: Druid 8: Ranger Wisdom +1 9: Druid Alertness 10:Shifter 11:Shifter 12:Shifter Wisdom +1,Empower Spell 13: Shifter 14: Druid 15: Ranger Favored Enemy: Elves(Drow), Imp Crit longbow 16: Druid Wisdom +1 17: Druid 18: Ranger Zen Archery about the time your wis will help 19: Ranger 20: Ranger Constitution +1 21: Shifter Armor skin or whatever it's a free feat 22: Shifter 23: Shifter 24: Shifter Wisdom +1, Great Wisdom I 25: Shifter 26: Shifter 27: Shifter Undead Shape 28: Ranger Wisdom +1 29: Druid 30: Shifter Great Wisdom II 31: Shifter Great Wisdom III 32: Druid Wisdom +1 33: Druid Great Wisdom IV 34: Shifter 35: Shifter 36: Shifter wisdom +1,Great Wisdom V,Great Wisdom VI 37: Druid 38: Druid 39: Shifter Outsider shape 40: Ranger Wisdom +1, Epic Prowess All naked ac's Ac 17 in human, 35 kobold, 32 Rak, 30 risen, 27 Minotaur ab mundane bow in human form 37/32/27/22 Fort 31 (39)vs spells Reflex 21 (29)vs spells Will 28 (36)vs spells hp 500 human more in all other forms He can stalk as a ranger high ms and hide,very stealthy kobold commando.He can set and disable traps. Has multiple forms to help in different situations like all shifters.He has unlimited empowered Ice storms in Rak form, couldn't get maximized with levels taken. Can Buff himself and party,has harm/heal, can nuke some with spells etc.
This is the revised build based off of suggestions from M1ke47, Amazon Queen, and Pulse cap. I think I corrected all the changes Thanks again for the suggestions!! _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Edited By ManOWarr on 07/04/05 22:33
hmmm, I'm trying to check the build by re-building it and having trouble using those starting stats. I'm having to start with 12 wisdom and will end with 25 wis and 17 con. I think. I'll have to level it up again and see, might be missing an attribute level up point or something. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Looks like you have to use these stats : STR 14 Dex 14 Con 15 (16) Int 14 Wis 12 (26) Cha 8
Then switch level 20 stat increase to wisdom from con and the build will work. You just have less hp's. I don't understand what went wrong with this character because I built him originally then leveled him back down to level one to get my starting stats that I originally posted. Maybe for some reason the leveler module didn't reduce the stats corrcetly back to level one. Anyway, you could also reduce str to start at 12 and leave it there putting those stats into con and have the extra hp's, whatever you like. I just feel like a wimp with 12 str though lol. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Why not just start them both at 14? It'll actually save you a level up point for something else, or a Great Something or other, yes? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Why not just start them both at 14? It'll actually save you a level up point for something else, or a Great Something or other, yes?
Really, lol, well damn, I just got through building this character from level 1 to 40 again, testing everything and now I find out could just start both at 14.
Well anyway going the way it's posted and staying with just 16 con, I saved a wisdom somehow and on level 36 in the build,actually only needed one great wisdom. I'm confused at this point. I took toughness along with the one great wisdom and that made up the lost hp's for not having 18 con. You could take something else of coarse.
Thanks Grizz for the insight. I swear sometimes I'm blind or just can't see forest for the trees, lol. Do you see any other tweaks or suggestions grizz? Also how would you see the leveling change by going 14 on both con and wisdom?
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Why not just start them both at 14? It'll actually save you a level up point for something else, or a Great Something or other, yes?
I was trying to figure out why I didn't think of this and I think the original build
Quote: STR 13 (14) Dex 14 Con 16 (18) Int 14 Wis 12 (26) Cha 8
had illegal ability scores at the start, ie it would have required 31 points. Typo? The points in the repost seem to add up fine though.
Hard to say, really. I've never built a Druid/Shifter in my life, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, I would take only 4 levels of Ranger pre-epic, and then use the 5th level of Ranger in Epic to pick up another combat feat, like EWF, or Armor Skin if it makes the Ranger list. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Hard to say, really. I've never built a Druid/Shifter in my life, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, I would take only 4 levels of Ranger pre-epic, and then use the 5th level of Ranger in Epic to pick up another combat feat, like EWF, or Armor Skin if it makes the Ranger list.
At first I thought this looked like a very good idea, getting an epic feat at the expense of 1 BAB and a pre-epic feat. The ranger seems to get pretty sad epic bonus feats however. I think the following are the only ones that would be availible with your stats and other feats:
Epic toughness 20 HP at the expense is not even worth the 1 BAB, IMO Epic Weapon Focus This would mean +1 AB with longbow but -1 AB with any other weapon. It pretty much comes down to how often you'll be using the longbow Favored enemy Could be nice, but not worth it on the whole I think
Edited By pulse cap on 07/05/05 01:55
Should get Epic Prowess as an option as well. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
It was actually in my unedited post (along with some spelling mistakes ) but since it's already in the build I decided do delete it from the post. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have but it too late to edit now
Edited By pulse cap on 07/05/05 02:51
Quote: Posted 07/05/05 01:00:59 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Why not just start them both at 14? It'll actually save you a level up point for something else, or a Great Something or other, yes?
I was trying to figure out why I didn't think of this and I think the original build
Quote: STR 13 (14) Dex 14 Con 16 (18) Int 14 Wis 12 (26) Cha 8
had illegal ability scores at the start, ie it would have required 31 points. Typo? The points in the repost seem to add up fine though.
Yeah, I don't know what happened there. I built the character one way in a leveling module, but didn't pay attention to my starting stats. I then leveled him back to level 1 to find what my begining stats were and that's what it showed. The only thing I can think of is the module didn't remove an ability point or something when de-leveling, but who knows. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
The Mimicking Hunter or Nature's avenger
You defile a forest or grove and he'll hunt you down and make you pay, lol.
Meant to be playable from level 1 to 40, PvM.
Druid 13 / Ranger 10 / Shifter 17 Human, any neutral, STR 14 Dex 14 Con 15 (16) Int 14 Wis 12 (26) Cha 8
1: Druid, dodge, Luck of heroes 2: Ranger Favored Enemy: Undead 3: Ranger Weapon Focus (longbow) 4: Druid Con +1 5: Ranger 6: Druid extend spell (for buffs) 7: Druid 8: Ranger Wisdom +1 9: Druid Alertness 10:Shifter 11:Shifter 12:Shifter Wisdom +1,Empower Spell 13: Shifter 14: Druid 15: Ranger Favored Enemy: Elves(Drow), Imp Crit longbow 16: Druid Wisdom +1 17: Druid 18: Ranger Zen Archery about the time your wis will help 19: Ranger 20: Ranger Wisdom +1 21: Shifter Armor skin or whatever it's a free feat 22: Shifter 23: Shifter 24: Shifter Wisdom +1, Great Wisdom I 25: Shifter 26: Shifter 27: Shifter Undead Shape 28: Ranger Wisdom +1 29: Druid 30: Shifter Great Wisdom II 31: Shifter Great Wisdom III 32: Druid Wisdom +1 33: Druid Great Wisdom IV 34: Shifter 35: Shifter 36: Shifter wisdom +1,Great Wisdom V,Toughness 37: Druid 38: Druid 39: Shifter Outsider shape 40: Ranger Wisdom +1, Epic Prowess All naked ac's Ac 18 in human, 36 kobold, 33 Rak, 31 risen, 28 Minotaur ab mundane bow in human form 37/32/27/22 Fort 31 (39)vs spells Reflex 21 (29)vs spells Will 28 (36)vs spells hp 500 human more in all other forms He can stalk as a ranger high ms and hide,very stealthy kobold commando.He can set and disable traps. Has multiple forms to help in different situations like all shifters.He has unlimited empowered Ice storms in Rak form, couldn't get maximized with levels taken. Can Buff himself and party,has harm/heal, can nuke some with spells etc.
This is the revised build based off of suggestions from M1ke47, Amazon Queen, and Pulse cap. I think I corrected all the changes Thanks again for the suggestions!!
You probably could end up with con 18 using two great con's at the toughness and armor skin feats, but you actually come out better in ways by taking the feats I took, because the armor skin and toughness carry over to all shifted forms and just 18 con doesn't as it gets overwritten on some forms. I think I've correctly put everything in the build now.
Thanks, Mano _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
Edited By ManOWarr on 07/05/05 03:31
Quote: Posted 07/05/05 03:15:49 (GMT) -- ManOWarr Yeah, I don't know what happened there. I built the character one way in a leveling module, but didn't pay attention to my starting stats. I then leveled him back to level 1 to find what my begining stats were and that's what it showed. The only thing I can think of is the module didn't remove an ability point or something when de-leveling, but who knows.
Aha, that's happened to me a few times as well. Seems the de-leveling has a few bugs. I think it has something to do with the "great something" feats, but I'm not sure.
Quote: Posted 07/05/05 13:05:22 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 07/05/05 03:15:49 (GMT) -- ManOWarr Yeah, I don't know what happened there. I built the character one way in a leveling module, but didn't pay attention to my starting stats. I then leveled him back to level 1 to find what my begining stats were and that's what it showed. The only thing I can think of is the module didn't remove an ability point or something when de-leveling, but who knows.
Aha, that's happened to me a few times as well. Seems the de-leveling has a few bugs. I think it has something to do with the "great something" feats, but I'm not sure.
Oh okay, well that would make sense. I was thinking it was just me being crazy again, lol. _________________ A Man of War who treads the world's roads alone, as I do, must be quick. Long ago I learned to strike swiftly and without scruple. I trouble no man without cause, but one who attacks me had best resolve himself to die!
) but since it's already in the build I decided do delete it from the post. Looking back, I probably shouldn't have but it too late to edit now 