Just an interesting little idea that turned out surprisingly better than anticipated. What about all those mobs that keep hitting your character with elemental damages? Well, the Master of resistance can handle almost anything they throw at him. With a bit of Bard Song, the Bard's skill set, and all those Fighter bonus feats, he gets some good tools to handle himself in melee as well. Hit points are good, AC is quite acceptable, he has a bit of DR, and even his saves aren't that bad. And, he's a Dwarf!
Playable from level 1, PvM
FTR 22/Bard 8/RDD 10
Dwarf, any non-lawful
STR 16 (32) DEX 12 CON 18 (22) INT 14 (16) WIS 8 CHA 6 (8)
He gets no spells due to low CHA, but that's not the focus of the build. Bard Song will raise his AB by 2, so with completely mundane gear and buffed with Song, he'll have an attack schedule of +44/+39/+34/+29.
A wise old Dwarf commented that there doesn't seem to be much a FTR/Bard/RDD can't do. I'm beginning to think he's right. Anyway, just a fun little thought experiment. Should be quite playable, though. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By griphook on 07/28/05 14:34
*standing ovation*
Very sweet idea. I have been looking for something that is.. well not a cleric! LOL I have found something.
Very nice
A frontliner in any party. Ideal for PvM environments. There clearly is a niche for characters like this. I'm pleasantly surprised by how decent his saves are on top of the Resistances, DR, and high hitpoints. Loss of spells is lamentable, but as you state, it's not the point, and he can compensate with UMD to cast any buffs or Imp Invis's he needs to become the ultimate god of war.
Curiosity build? Indeed. Curiouser and curiouser. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Just a note on the build: you could easily replace Epic Skill Focus:Taunt with Epic Energy Resistance:Cold. This would give the build 10/- resistance to cold as well. It's something that the Dwarflord brought to my attention and I think it's a good idea. Certainly, it's in keeping with the concept of the build. Thanks for that, Grizz. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
An alternate version, like I have on a PW, is to take PM instead of RDD. You loose 4 AB and DMG from the STR loss, a few skill points, 40hp, and 100% immunity to fire (you can take Epic Energy Resistance - Fire to get enough to cover flame weapon, darkfire, etc. though) BUT, you are immune to crits and sneaks which really pays off in melee battle.
I know these builds aren't based off items, but when you couple natural energy resistance and Epic Damage Reduction with items available in most PW's (belts, rings, etc.), you really do become resistance to most melee damage.
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 16:33:11 (GMT) -- GoVols
An alternate version, like I have on a PW, is to take PM instead of RDD. You loose 4 AB and DMG from the STR loss, a few skill points, 40hp, and 100% immunity to fire (you can take Epic Energy Resistance - Fire to get enough to cover flame weapon, darkfire, etc. though) BUT, you are immune to crits and sneaks which really pays off in melee battle.
I know these builds aren't based off items, but when you couple natural energy resistance and Epic Damage Reduction with items available in most PW's (belts, rings, etc.), you really do become resistance to most melee damage.
I had looked at PM as a possibility, since it gets Energy Resistance as a bonus feat and the immunity to crits/sneaks is sweet, but the problems I came up with were:
1) You need 13+ levels of PM to get that Energy Resist as a bonus feat to cover the Fire Immunity loss.
2) The BAB of the PM is detrimental to the build (as you noted), unless you take all (or most) of the levels in epic. This means few levels to play with in epic for Bard and FTR to get Tumble topped up on a regular basis and bonus feats to get the combat/DR feats.
3) You don't get the stat boosts from PM that you do with RDD, making the build much less effective for combat - and that much tougher to get the CON for the DR feats.
To me, the cons outweighed the pros in going with PM, so I opted for the RDD. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Just out of interest does the Resist Energy Feat stack with Epic Energy Resistance? So you could have...
Resist Energy Fire: 5/- Epic Energy Resitance Fire 10/-
giving 15/- or 10/-??
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 19:15:57 (GMT) -- mphacon
Just out of interest does the Resist Energy Feat stack with Epic Energy Resistance? So you could have...
Resist Energy Fire: 5/- Epic Energy Resitance Fire 10/-
giving 15/- or 10/-??
I've not personally tested it, but it's been reported many times that they don't stack, which is unfortunate. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
That is indeed unfortunate. Using your above concept I have a rough mock up of a Fighter 8/Defender 22/CoT 10 with DR 24/- and 20/- for fire/cold/sonic/acid and lightening. Could have had 4 of the 5 "elemental" at 25/- if they stacked. Even with 30 BAB, I could only get the strength up to 24, so I don't think he would be able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo, even with WF, EWF and EWS. Oh well. Apologies for hi-jacking your thread.
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 19:38:58 (GMT) -- mphacon
That is indeed unfortunate. Using your above concept I have a rough mock up of a Fighter 8/Defender 22/CoT 10 with DR 24/- and 20/- for fire/cold/sonic/acid and lightening. Could have had 4 of the 5 "elemental" at 25/- if they stacked. Even with 30 BAB, I could only get the strength up to 24, so I don't think he would be able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo, even with WF, EWF and EWS. Oh well. Apologies for hi-jacking your thread.
No apologies necessary. That build you mention looks promising. You'd have good saves to go along with it. Even with only 24 STR, that's an AB of +41 with a mundane weapon, and only 1 less AB than my Resistance build. Not all that bad in most PvM environments (and on par with many builds posted here). Not going to hit squat in a PvP setting though (but I never build with PvP in mind anyway). _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 19:19:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 19:15:57 (GMT) -- mphacon
Just out of interest does the Resist Energy Feat stack with Epic Energy Resistance? So you could have...
Resist Energy Fire: 5/- Epic Energy Resitance Fire 10/-
giving 15/- or 10/-??
I've not personally tested it, but it's been reported many times that they don't stack, which is unfortunate.
I've read they DID stack. I have not personally tested it, but I know someone who told me they did and it stacked. The way I understand how it works with items is it stacks with the item with the highest amount. If you have a ring with 5/- Acid and a shield with 10/- Acid, you would have 10 + your natural resist to Acid.
If I ever get some time I'll test it myself I guess so I can KNOW for sure.
Quote: Posted 07/08/05 16:55:36 (GMT) -- GoVols
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 19:19:16 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Quote: Posted 07/07/05 19:15:57 (GMT) -- mphacon
Just out of interest does the Resist Energy Feat stack with Epic Energy Resistance? So you could have...
Resist Energy Fire: 5/- Epic Energy Resitance Fire 10/-
giving 15/- or 10/-??
I've not personally tested it, but it's been reported many times that they don't stack, which is unfortunate.
I've read they DID stack. I have not personally tested it, but I know someone who told me they did and it stacked. The way I understand how it works with items is it stacks with the item with the highest amount. If you have a ring with 5/- Acid and a shield with 10/- Acid, you would have 10 + your natural resist to Acid.
If I ever get some time I'll test it myself I guess so I can KNOW for sure.
That's not what the question was about. The question was whether the pre-epic feat Energy Resistance stacks with the epic Energy Resistance feats. I've read they don't, that only the epic feats apply if you have both. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
I have tested this in a PvP arena, (with fire) and sorry guys, it doesn't stack. That's really lame, because then the feat taken pre-epic disappears. Well, that's how it worked a year back or so. It might have been patched up now.
Hello All,
I really like this build but have a question or two:
I read the post from mphacon asking “Just out of interest does the Resist Energy Feat stack with Epic Energy Resistance? So you could have... “ the answered seems to be – no.
And the post from GoVols “is it stacks with the item with the highest amount. If you have a ring with 5/- Acid and a shield with 10/- Acid, you would have 10 + your natural resist to Acid.”
I was wondering:
A) If you have say the epic acid resistance 20 and then had an item such as a ring that had acid resistance 5 would the feat and items stack for 25 resistance to acid or as with items does the 20 take priority and only give 20?
B) If you also had an item which gave damage soak 5 would it stack with the epic damage resistance giving a total of 14 or again highest wins?
Tks in advanced.
I, too, have heard about the stacking situation, but whatever: this is (in my humble opionion) a very nice build, which shoud do very well in not only pvm but in particular pve environs --- saves are wonderful, and so overlooked (being a melee fan vs.pally fan meself, so hard to choose, it is at times, and yet, Cinn, you darn well upped and did it again and showed us the virtues of both w.o the pally -- awesome, and nice twist to all that what has come before. Nice build, and btw, in case you're wondering, in b.w countries and heck taking your amazing advice into consideration (stay tuned folks -- should see what Cinn and I got planned, as in, we got a build coming up, and all good) in the meantime, I like (as in, Really LIKE) this build alot -- serves a niche in the pve in particular market and then some, and all good (at least if you wanna solo, w.o pally etc. -- well done, once again, and a nice twist/additition to what's come before - thanks for this, Cinn. WELL DONE.
Deb "Tyr" _________________ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing" -- Edmund Burke, Philosopher and Politician (1729-1797)
Edited By TyrTemplar on 12/01/07 08:24
Quote: A) If you have say the epic acid resistance 20 and then had an item such as a ring that had acid resistance 5 would the feat and items stack for 25 resistance to acid or as with items does the 20 take priority and only give 20?
I believe they don't stack, the highest single resistance should apply, since feats do stack with themselves, you'd get the 20 effective resistance.
I'm not sure because I usually don't take Epic Energy Resistance feats, but I know spells don't stack with items, your spell will take all the damage like if you had no item, feats shouldn't either, but it is somewhat different, so you should test it.
Quote: B) If you also had an item which gave damage soak 5 would it stack with the epic damage resistance giving a total of 14 or again highest wins?
They don't stack, only Barbarian and Dwarven Defender's natural damage reduction stack with EDR and that's it, no other form of DR stacks with any other form of DR ever, no matter where it comes from, type, or whatever you could think to add, so the highest value applies.
However, note that you first get the one that soaks most damage and when that one is useless you get the one that still soaks some damage, for example: if you get on an item 20/+5 and you also have natural 11/-, the 20/+5 will apply when you're dealing with +5 or lower and the 11/- would apply when dealing with higher than +5.
Damage Reduction does stack with Damage Immunity, the Immunity is always applied first. _________________ "My name is Thaxll'ssyllia, but you simians may refer to me merely as "Sir", if you prefer a less... syllable intensive workout."
Edwin Odesseiron - Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
