Grizzled_dwarflord's Grimblade inspired this build. It's very similar, but a DEX-based version. Who knows, perhaps they're members of the same Assassin's Guild... Got a 'job' that needs doing? Put the word out for The Hatchet.
Playable from levels 1 to 40, PvM.
The Hatchet
FTR 12/WIZ 10/Assn 18
I chose to specialize in Illusion, as you get an extra spell and don't really lose much (Enchantments) that this build will want. Enchantment would be a really nice school for a sneak attacking build, but this one's DC would be so low that he'd have almost no hope of landing the spells. He focuses on buffs and defensive spells instead.
He should concentrate his efforts on obtaining spells that help in defense and buffing. This will help immeasurably with survival and damage dealing. Craft Wand, often maligned as a waste of a feat will be a great boon to this build, allowing him to carry around a number of utility spells and freeing his spell slots for other more important considerations. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By griphook on 07/14/05 23:53
Damn! I keep forgetting this:
Playable from levels 1 to 40, PvM. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
You know, we should gather our band of Dwarf Assassins together and wreak some bearded havoc in a mod somewhere. Submit these guys to a test of steel.
I like this build for the obvious reasons, and the Craft Wand and Spell Focus Illusion are excellent choices for this character. Starting with the 16Int mitigate the lack of skill points which was also a point of contention in the GrimBlade build. Just not enough points. But with some creative juggling, taking an Epic Skill Focus: Hide on an Assn bonus feat, all help to alleviate this.
You know, we should gather our band of Dwarf Assassins together and wreak some bearded havoc in a mod somewhere. Submit these guys to a test of steel.
A splendid idea sir! Just say the word!
Quote: I like this build for the obvious reasons, and the Craft Wand and Spell Focus Illusion are excellent choices for this character. Starting with the 16Int mitigate the lack of skill points which was also a point of contention in the GrimBlade build. Just not enough points. But with some creative juggling, taking an Epic Skill Focus: Hide on an Assn bonus feat, all help to alleviate this.
Good build, Cin.
Thanks, and thanks for the advice in getting this one polished. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Swapping Knockdown and TWF might improve the plability when starting from scratch; I realise it is a personal choice, but if you are dual wielding from the start I would prefer not to have to wait for the AB benefits of TWF.
Right, off to build my own Dward Assassin.
Quote: Posted 07/12/05 17:04:57 (GMT) -- mphacon
Swapping Knockdown and TWF might improve the plability when starting from scratch; I realise it is a personal choice, but if you are dual wielding from the start I would prefer not to have to wait for the AB benefits of TWF.
Right, off to build my own Dward Assassin.
I don't see a reason not to take two-weapon fighting at lvl 2 instead of weapon focus (if you want to use two weapons fropm the start), wf gives you +1 AB, two-weapon fighting gives you +2.
Quote: Posted 07/12/05 17:12:24 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 07/12/05 17:04:57 (GMT) -- mphacon
Swapping Knockdown and TWF might improve the plability when starting from scratch; I realise it is a personal choice, but if you are dual wielding from the start I would prefer not to have to wait for the AB benefits of TWF.
Right, off to build my own Dward Assassin.
I don't see a reason not to take two-weapon fighting at lvl 2 instead of weapon focus (if you want to use two weapons fropm the start), wf gives you +1 AB, two-weapon fighting gives you +2.
Not sure what you mean here. He'll get a -2/-2to his AB dualling 2 axes at level 2, which means, discounting any other modifiers, he'll have a 0 AB and thus rely on the roll of the dice. I think the plan here, as it is with most dualwield builds, is to go sword and shield until the character can begin to compensate for AB loss. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 07/12/05 17:12:24 (GMT) -- pulse cap
Quote: Posted 07/12/05 17:04:57 (GMT) -- mphacon
Swapping Knockdown and TWF might improve the plability when starting from scratch; I realise it is a personal choice, but if you are dual wielding from the start I would prefer not to have to wait for the AB benefits of TWF.
Right, off to build my own Dward Assassin.
I don't see a reason not to take two-weapon fighting at lvl 2 instead of weapon focus (if you want to use two weapons fropm the start), wf gives you +1 AB, two-weapon fighting gives you +2.
It's exactly as the Dwarflord said. I don't generally dual wield in a build until around level 6 or so, due to the AB penalty. Two Weapon Fighting does not improve your AB at all, in fact, it reduces it by 2. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 07/12/05 17:52
I understand the necessity sometimes (actually quite often) for not dual wielding until you have reached a decent level. I implied that there is a benefit to AB, but this only over dual wielding without the TWF feat. If you are going to use sword&board then weapon focus is the way to go; you are correct.
Nice build Cinnabar! Another Dwarven assassin is always welcome.
Argh, the legions of the Dwarven Assassins Guild are growing daily!
Kaliban The Duergar Crusader, a member of the Dwarven Assassins Guild. _________________ "Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
Edited By Kaliban99 on 07/13/05 02:18
I sorta figured you would be dualwielding early since you take ambidex at level 1. If that is not the plan, wouldn't you be better off going
Yeah, that's probably a better way to do it. Good point. That's a throw-back from an old habit of mine. Usually I only dual-wield with Rogue builds and it's often Ambidex that's one of the few feats I can take at level one. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 07/13/05 03:33:42 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Yeah, that's probably a better way to do it. Good point. That's a throw-back from an old habit of mine. Usually I only dual-wield with Rogue builds and it's often Ambidex that's one of the few feats I can take at level one.
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
You know, I've always wondered why people are so reticent to dual wield early if they can get the feats that soon. In most cases, the extra attack per round more than outweighs the -2 penalty. For example, I did out the math for my Arcane Blade of Torm a while back. That build gets Ambidexterity and TWF at level one. It has an AB of 3 at level 1 when single wielding, and 1/1 when dual wielding. Here is a chart of the chance to hit at least once per round for all enemy ACs 10 and up. SW is for single wielding, DW for double wielding. I've also listed the chance for hitting twice per round for dual wielding in parentheses next to the other percentage (note that additional number is itself included in the total chance to hit at least once):
So, only for some of the very high ACs (20-22) will a single wielder hit more often, and even then, only at 21 was the single wielder's benefit at all significant. Plus, a 1st level character is unlikely to face enemies with ACs that high anyway; the likelier ACs (from 10-18 or so probably) give the advantage to the dual wielder. And of course, only the dual wielder has the chance for two hits in one round.
Now, obviously these exact numbers are specific to a different build that this one, but the general tendency is the same. As such, I wouldn't really think it that unreasonable to dual wield earlier on. With this build, you could certainly start by level 2-3 (you'd could have weapon finesse, weapon focus, ambi, and TWF by then) and find yourself hitting more often than if you stayed with a single weapon.
Anyway, that's my take on it. I love the build though, along with the other members of the Dwarven Assassins Guild I've seen lately, . I'll have to come up with my own entry for the guild when I get home and back to my NWN computer next week.
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 07/14/05 00:54
Steve, thanks for the chart. It's been my experience that at lower levels (first 4 or 5) I haven't found dual-wielding to be in my characters' best interests, despite the numbers. It seems to me (and, admittedly, this may be only perception and not really the case) that I miss somewhat more often when dual wielding at level 1, 2, and 3 at least, and also I tend to want the extra AC provided by a shield for the first handful of levels as well.
Of course, like everything else, I guess that's environment-dependant. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 07/14/05 00:56:40 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din It seems to me (and, admittedly, this may be only perception and not really the case) that I miss somewhat more often when dual wielding at level 1, 2, and 3 at least, and also I tend to want the extra AC provided by a shield for the first handful of levels as well.
You do miss more often in terms of each individual attack. That's why it looks worse. But, you're getting 2 attacks per round instead of just one, so in terms of hits/damage per round, which is all that matters, you're doing better. That's the deceptive part of what you're seeing. You look at the combat log and see you're missing half your hits, but don't notice you're hitting once every round, far better than if you only had one attack per round. My ABoT was really plowing through enemies at low levels with that two-bladed sword because of it .
But as for the AC, yes, if you're in an AC over AB environment, then yes, it still pays off to sword/board it regardless of the extra hit per round.
Steve
Edited By Stravinsky00 on 07/14/05 03:04
Steve, there are three kind of Lies in this world: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
What you overlooked in your dazzling display of quantum weapon mechanics is that it is still a game of dice and chance, especially at early levels, and statistics be damned, but I roll bad nearly 95% of the time. If the only roll where I can miss or fail is a 1, then you can bank that I'll roll a 1.
Nevertheless, you raise a good point, and I'll have the Gnomes look into it. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Steve, there are three kind of Lies in this world: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
What you overlooked in your dazzling display of quantum weapon mechanics is that it is still a game of dice and chance, especially at early levels, and statistics be damned, but I roll bad nearly 95% of the time. If the only roll where I can miss or fail is a 1, then you can bank that I'll roll a 1.
Nevertheless, you raise a good point, and I'll have the Gnomes look into it.
Amen to that, brother! My luck's so bad I couldn't win a ticket to a free lunch. The dice hate me... _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Steve, there are three kind of Lies in this world: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
What you overlooked in your dazzling display of quantum weapon mechanics is that it is still a game of dice and chance, especially at early levels, and statistics be damned, but I roll bad nearly 95% of the time. If the only roll where I can miss or fail is a 1, then you can bank that I'll roll a 1.
Nevertheless, you raise a good point, and I'll have the Gnomes look into it.
Lookout! Sensors just went berserk. Looks like something's out there.....yep...it's a... it's a...
Crotchety old bastard! _________________ "Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
. I'll have to come up with my own entry for the guild when I get home and back to my NWN computer next week.
.