"Your money or your life!"

The brigand grabbed the elf woman by the roots of her hair, and with a mailed gauntlet forced her to her knees. Around the rest of the caravan, other figures leaped from the undergrowth and knocked the elven pilgrims to the ground. These highwaymen carried weapons grim in nature-- heavy spiked flails, serrated swords, and cold, gleaming scimitars. These were no desperate ruffians. Murder was their business, and business was good, for they were well-armed and trained.

"Do as we say, and your lives will spared!" barked the leader who stepped slowly into the perimeter. He was a huge man, if man he was. He towered head and shoulders above even the tallest of the outlaws, and black leathery wings stretched out behind him as if he were some demon from the ancient world. In his hands he gripped a Great Axe whose like had not been seen since the days of Nether, and his eyes were red, his countenance fell. A wave of fear, palpable and menacing, throbbed around his being, and even his own men strayed not too close. This was no ordinary outlaw. He was Ardekzor, one of the feared Seven Fists of Gruumsh.

"Do not, and I shall elevate your suffering to an art form!" His sinister laugh reverberated throughout the canyon.

All around the caravan train, the people threw themselves to the ground and cowered and prayed for mercy. But there was one who did not. He stood alone, in the midst of it all. He was short, perhaps 5 feet, but broad of back. He wore no armour, and appeared unarmed. He was clad in simple garb, mostly tattered rags of black and brown, and his face was obscured by the shadow of his cloak, which he had pulled over his visage. He was still and silent, like a statue, and the brigands stared at him in disbelief.

"What? Are you the token deaf elf pilgrim?" sneered the closest bandit, "On your knees!" He immediately made an attempt to grab the stranger's arm and throw him to the ground. But in the moment that he blinked, the stranger sidestepped the brigand's clumsy attack and turned it back on him, and the man found himself face first in the dirt.

"I am no elf," the stranger uttered in a low voice of gravel.

Three more brigands jumped at the stranger. Three more fell to the earth.

"Kill him," ordered Ardekzor, "Kill him now! I want his head and all the rest of their heads on pikes!" He had no sooner spoken this than the stranger suddenly was a blur of motion that the eye could barely follow. He had produced a sword from the confines of his cloak, and from somewhere else came a shield, and in a dance that was half art and half macabre, he slew eight of the nine brigands who assailed the caravan. The stranger then stood still as stone again and waited. Next to him, the ninth bandit made a slight motion with his arm, looked to his leader in pure astonishment with a word perched on his lips, and then he, too, fell without a sound.

Ardekzor grunted and, blind with fury, charged the stranger with the Great Axe held high above his head. The stranger, with minimal movement and effort, sidestepped his first blow and countered with two quick strikes that pierced the leader's abdomen, and then he simply vanished. The leader whirled around in rage, sweat and blood running into his eyes.

"Come on and fight me! Fight me you coward!"

And then he felt steel sink deep into the back of both his knees and he buckled and fell. And then the stranger was before him with a long sliver of steel whose tip he jammed against Ardekzor's throat. From behind the stranger, Ardekzor could see a blackness begin to swell, as if it were some stygian creature made of wings and shadow rise up from the ground.

"Who are you?" he gasped, and he could feel the steel-tip slowly penetrate his flesh.

"Your worst nightmare," the stranger whispered.
___________

PvM, Playable 1-40

Stygian Knight
Rogue17/Fighter10/Shadowdancer13

Race: Any (I chose Dwarf, though Elf/Halfling work best)
Alignment: Any

Str14
Int14
Wis8
Dex18(32)
Con12
Chr6

Level-ups
1Rogue1, Dodge
2Fighter1, Weapon Finesse
3Rogue2 Wpn Focus(shortsword, rapier, mace or hand axe)
4Fighter2, Mobility, Dex19
5Fighter3
6Fighter4 Wpn Spcl, Knockdown
7Rogue3
8Shadowdancer1, Dex20
9Shadowdancer2, Improved KD
10Rogue4
11Rogue5
12Shadowdancer3, Improved Critical, Dex21
13Shadowdancer4
14Shadowdancer5
15Rogue6, Iron Will
16Rogue7, Dex22
17Shadowdancer6
18Shadowdancer7, Blindfighting
19Shadowdancer8
20Rogue8, Dex23
21Shadowdancer9, Great Dex I
22Shadowdancer10
23Rogue9
24Rogue10, Great Dex II, Epic Dodge, Dex 26
25Rogue11
26Fighter5
27Fighter6, EWF, EWS
28Rogue12, Dex27
29Shadowdancer11
30Shadowdancer12, Great Dex III
31Fighter7
32Fighter8, Epic Prowess, Dex29
33Fighter9, Great Dex IV
34Rogue13, SC I
35Shadowdancer13, SC II
36Rogue14, SC III, Dex31
37Rogue15
38Rogue16, SC IV
39Fighter, SC V, Armor Skin
40Rogue17, Dex 32

Hit Points: 346
NakedAC w/Small Shield: 33
AB: 41/36/31/26
Max AB: 67(True Strike +12 to Dex)

Saves
Fort: 19 (25)
Will: 16 (22)
Reflex: 34 (40)

Skills
Discipline: 42 (44)
Hide: 43 (54)
Move Silently 43 (54)
Tumble: 40
Spellcraft 18 (20)
Set Traps: 43 (54)
Disable Traps: 20 (31)
Open Locks: 20 (22)
Search: 20
UMD: 36(35)

Benefits
Hide in Plain Sight
Epic Dodge
Self-Concealment V
Nifty built-in Meat shield (Summon Shadow)
Still has nice damage output with EWS/+2 for Strength and 9d6Sneak and UMD to self-buff
Mucho Skill Points
Numerous Ways to Generate Sneak Attacks
High Reflex Save, no fear of Evokers

Disadvantages
Low Will Save: (this is buffered by Dwarven Hardiness, +4 Spellcraft, Iron Will, and Slippery Mind)
Low Hit Points: But he doesn't really need a lot of Hit points
Low Fort Save ( Fort-enhancing items should be sought)
Non-Dualwielder (can still be obtained at the expense of Blindfighting, Iron Will, IKD)



This is just a classic finesse build. Nothing special. Before I posted this, I carefully searched the index for a build similar. What surprised me was I could not find one, for I thought this was a pretty common template for making a Fighter/Rogue/SD. It's just a straight up Epic Dodge/SC V build with EWS/IKD. I found that most builds either went really SD light (1-2 levels), or really SD heavy (19+levels), or very Rogue heavy(24+ levels). The majority went for Dual wielding which, though attractive, can get to be expensive. Yet I couldn't find any that had this particular balance. For those of you who find some similar to this, PM me so I can establish a few links in this thread for others looking to build a straight up, no-frills, SC V meleer. For that's all I wanted--no Monk, no assassins, no dual-wielding WMs, just a modest amount of SD and Rogue, and a good portion of Fighter to get all your pre-epic and epic combat feats. And actually workable for all races with just minor tweaks to starting stats. Actually, Elf is really the most ideal race for this build, but, inexplicably, they incur an XP penalty in this level combination, so I had to forsake them(thanks for the catch, Cin). Halflings, of course, become the natural choice, but I had an urge for a Dwarf to get SC V and still maintain a semi-melee presence. Humans work pretty well, as the extra feat could be used to take Strong Soul or Toughness to compensate for their lack of Save bonuses the other races get.
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Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/14/07 13:31

Nice build Griz!!!
Quote: Posted 07/18/05 04:17:46 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

"Your money or your life!"

The brigand grabbed the elf woman by the roots of her hair, and with a mailed gauntlet forced her to her knees. Around the rest of the caravan, other figures leaped from the undergrowth and knocked the elven pilgrims to the ground. These highwaymen carried weapons grim in nature-- heavy spiked flails, serrated swords, and cold, gleaming scimitars. These were no desperate ruffians. Murder was their business, and business was good, for they were well-armed and trained.

"Do as we say, and your lives will spared!" barked the leader who stepped slowly into the perimeter. He was a huge man, if man he was. He towered head and shoulders above even the tallest of the outlaws, and black leathery wings stretched out behind him as if he were some demon from the ancient world. In his hands he gripped a Great Axe whose like had not been seen since the days of Nether, and his eyes were red, his countenance fell. A wave of fear, palpable and menacing, throbbed around his being, and even his own men strayed not too close. This was no ordinary outlaw. He was Ardekzor, one of the feared Seven Fists of Gruumsh.

"Do not, and I shall elevate your suffering to an art form!" His sinister laugh reverberated throughout the canyon.

All around the caravan train, the people threw themselves to the ground and cowered and prayed for mercy. But there was one who did not. He stood alone, in the midst of it all. He was short, perhaps 5 feet, but broad of back. He wore no armour, and appeared unarmed. He was clad in simple garb, mostly tattered rags of black and brown, and his face was obscured by the shadow of his cloak, which he had pulled over his visage. He was still and silent, like a statue, and the brigands stared at him in disbelief.

"What? Are you the token deaf elf pilgrim?" sneered the closest bandit, "On your knees!" He immediately made an attempt to grab the stranger's arm and throw him to the ground. But in the moment that he blinked, the stranger sidestepped the brigand's clumsy attack and turned it back on him, and the man found himself face first in the dirt.

"I am no elf," the stranger uttered in a low voice of gravel.

Three more brigands jumped at the stranger. Three more fell to the earth.

"Kill him," ordered Ardekzor, "Kill him now! I want his head and all the rest of their heads on pikes!" He had no sooner spoken this than the stranger suddenly was a blur of motion that the eye could barely follow. He had produced a sword from the confines of his cloak, and from somewhere else came a shield, and in a dance that was half art and half macabre, he slew eight of the nine brigands who assailed the caravan. The stranger then stood still as stone again and waited. Next to him, the ninth bandit made a slight motion with his arm, looked to his leader in pure astonishment with a word perched on his lips, and then he, too, fell without a sound.

Ardekzor grunted and, blind with fury, charged the stranger with the Great Axe held high above his head. The stranger, with minimal movement and effort, sidestepped his first blow and countered with two quick strikes that pierced the leader's abdomen, and then he simply vanished. The leader whirled around in rage, sweat and blood running into his eyes.

"Come on and fight me! Fight me you coward!"

And then he felt steel sink deep into the back of both his knees and he buckled and fell. And then the stranger was before him with a long sliver of steel whose tip he jammed against Ardekzor's throat. From behind the stranger, Ardekzor could see a blackness begin to swell, as if it were some stygian creature made of wings and shadow rise up from the ground.

"Who are you?" he gasped, and he could feel the steel-tip slowly penetrate his flesh.

"Your worst nightmare," the stranger whispered.
___________

Stygian Knight
Rogue17/Fighter10/Shadowdancer13
PvM, Playable 1-40
Race: Any (I chose Dwarf, though Elf/Halfling work best)
Alignment: Any

Str14
Int14
Wis8
Dex18(32)
Con12
Chr6

Level-ups
1Rogue1, Dodge
2Fighter1, Weapon Finesse
3Rogue2 Wpn Focus(shortsword, rapier, mace or hand axe)
4Fighter2, Mobility, Dex19
5Fighter3
6Fighter4 Wpn Spcl, Knockdown
7Rogue3
8Shadowdancer1, Dex20
9Shadowdancer2, Improved KD
10Rogue4
11Rogue5
12Shadowdancer3, Improved Critical, Dex21
13Shadowdancer4
14Shadowdancer5
15Rogue6, Iron Will
16Rogue7, Dex22
17Shadowdancer6
18Shadowdancer7, Blindfighting
19Shadowdancer8
20Rogue8, Dex23
21Shadowdancer9, Great Dex I
22Shadowdancer10
23Rogue9
24Rogue10, Great Dex II, Epic Dodge, Dex 26
25Rogue11
26Fighter5
27Fighter6, EWF, EWS
28Rogue12, Dex27
29Shadowdancer11
30Shadowdancer12, Great Dex III
31Fighter7
32Fighter8, Epic Prowess, Dex29
33Fighter9, Great Dex IV
34Rogue13, SC I
35Shadowdancer13, SC II
36Rogue14, SC III, Dex31
37Rogue15
38Rogue16, SC IV
39Fighter, SC V, Armor Skin
40Rogue17, Dex 32

Hit Points: 346
NakedAC w/Small Shield: 33
AB: 41/36/31/26
Max AB: 67(True Strike +12 to Dex)

Saves
Fort: 19 (25)
Will: 16 (22)
Reflex: 34 (40)

Skills
Discipline: 42 (44)
Hide: 43 (54)
Move Silently 43 (54)
Tumble: 40
Spellcraft 18 (20)
Set Traps: 43 (54)
Disable Traps: 20 (31)
Open Locks: 20 (22)
Search: 20
UMD: 36(35)

Benefits
Hide in Plain Sight
Epic Dodge
Self-Concealment V
Nifty built-in Meat shield (Summon Shadow)
Still has nice damage output with EWS/+2 for Strength and 9d6Sneak and UMD to self-buff
Mucho Skill Points
Numerous Ways to Generate Sneak Attacks
High Reflex Save, no fear of Evokers

Disadvantages
Low Will Save: (this is buffered by Dwarven Hardiness, +4 Spellcraft, Iron Will, and Slippery Mind)
Low Hit Points: But he doesn't really need a lot of Hit points
Low Fort Save ( Fort-enhancing items should be sought)
Non-Dualwielder (can still be obtained at the expense of Blindfighting, Iron Will, IKD)



This is just a classic finesse build. Nothing special. Before I posted this, I carefully searched the index for a build similar. What surprised me was I could not find one, for I thought this was a pretty common template for making a Fighter/Rogue/SD. It's just a straight up Epic Dodge/SC V build with EWS/IKD. I found that most builds either went really SD light (1-2 levels), or really SD heavy (19+levels), or very Rogue heavy(24+ levels). The majority went for Dual wielding which, though attractive, can get to be expensive. Yet I couldn't find any that had this particular balance. For those of you who find some similar to this, PM me so I can establish a few links in this thread for others looking to build a straight up, no-frills, SC V meleer. For that's all I wanted--no Monk, no assassins, no dual-wielding WMs, just a modest amount of SD and Rogue, and a good portion of Fighter to get all your pre-epic and epic combat feats. And actually workable for all races with just minor tweaks to starting stats. Actually, Elf is really the most ideal race for this build, but, inexplicably, they incur an XP penalty in this level combination, so I had to forsake them(thanks for the catch, Cin). Halflings, of course, become the natural choice, but I had an urge for a Dwarf to get SC V and still maintain a semi-melee presence. Humans work pretty well, as the extra feat could be used to take Strong Soul or Toughness to compensate for their lack of Save bonuses the other races get.

You could trade off for fighter 8/ rogue 19/ shadowdancer 13.

This loses you a fighter bonus feat and gains a rogue bonus feat. Might restructure your build though.

Syrath
_________________
It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!! I hope Syrath won't take this personally or anything, but am I the only one who thinks a thread becomes less readable when people quote several pages just to make a comment constisting of two sentences? I'm with you pulse cap but I wasn't actually about to say it .

I may seem stupid but why SD13 rather than Rogue 19? :S Doesn't rogue get SC as a bonus feat?

-DaMouse
Quote: Posted 07/18/05 19:59:02 (GMT) -- DaMouse404

I'm with you pulse cap but I wasn't actually about to say it .

I may seem stupid but why SD13 rather than Rogue 19? :S Doesn't rogue get SC as a bonus feat?

-DaMouse

I would say it's probably just a trade-off. If you go 19 Rogue, you'll have either 11 FTR or 11 SD. No real benefit there. 2 more Rogue nets you 1d6 sneak attack and 4 more skill points over the SD. However, the Shadow Daze feat ramps up the DC with more SD levels (making it a 34 DC as opposed to 32 or 31). It's probably just whatever you want most out of it.
_________________
It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 07/18/05 16:07:35 (GMT) -- syrath1001

You could trade off for fighter 8/ rogue 19/ shadowdancer 13.

This loses you a fighter bonus feat and gains a rogue bonus feat. Might restructure your build though.

Syrath

Not a bad idea, and one I did consider. I based my decision on what the build needed more: the Rogue bonus feat would most likely be used to pick up the last SC feat, and thus you could use the General Feat to pick up Armor Skin instead of relying on the fighter, or you could merely keep it the same and use the extra Rogue slot to pick up Crippling. Both decent ways to proceed, and just another way to skin the cat, no pun intended.

Quote: Posted 07/18/05 19:59:02 (GMT) -- DaMouse404

I may seem stupid but why SD13 rather than Rogue 19? :S Doesn't rogue get SC as a bonus feat?

-DaMouse

No, you're not stupid, and it's a good question. You could certainly proceed with a 19Rogue, though I'd trim from Fighter rather than SD. As Cin already pointed out, I wasn't getting much more from Rogue other than another sneak die. Shadow Daze gets a little better with Lvl13, as does his Meat Shadow, which gains 2 more Hit Dice at Lvl 12. Neither of those things are very big deals either. My primary reason, though, was I wanted to have both Rogue and SD perched at Lvl 13 when the Character hits Lvl 34, so that you pick up SC at 34, 35 and 36 in quick rapid succession. That probably sounds silly, but it was good enough reason in my Mind-fogged brain to make sense.
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Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 07/19/05 02:58

Quote: Posted 07/19/05 02:49:37 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord
Shadow Daze gets a little better with Lvl13, as does his Meat Shadow, which gains 2 more Hit Dice at Lvl 12.

The meat shadow does not get better as your level increases. With 30 shadowdancer leves your meat shadow is exactly the same as it was at level 9. The only thing that changes this is if you take the feat Epic Shadowlord.

Epic Shadowlord gives you a meat shield that is a fighter one level less than your own level. With 13 SD levels though this isnt worth it. The differences are as follows.

Non-epic Shadowlord - Level 10 monster with 50 percent concealment and loads of immunities.
Epic Shadowlord - Level 12 Fighter with same immunities but no concealment

I know which Id prefer.

Syrath
_________________
It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!! That's new to me. According to the Grimoire, the Shadowdancer's Summon Shadow(not Shadowlord), gains 2 hit dice every three levels after 9th level. Perhaps it was just referring to its "Turn" hit dice?
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Quote: Posted 07/19/05 12:17:30 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

That's new to me. According to the Grimoire, the Shadowdancer's Summon Shadow(not Shadowlord), gains 2 hit dice every three levels after 9th level. Perhaps it was just referring to its "Turn" hit dice?

Both the manual and the grimoire are wrong when it comes to the shadowdancer summon.

Trust me I summoned all the shadows and looked at them from level 13 to level 30 SD.

Quote: 
SUMMON SHADOW
There are 4 types of shadows that a Shadowdancer can summon. These are depending on the level of the Shadowdancer and whether he has the Epic Shadowlord feat.

All the shadows share similar immunities and abilities. These include Critical Hits, Death Magic, Disease, Negative level, Abilitiy Decrease, Mind Spells, Paralysis, Poison, Sneak Attack, Knockdown

Summoned Shadow
AC 12
HP 19
AB +1
Damage 1-3
Concealed

Summoned Shadow Fiend
AC 20
HP 55
AB +4
Damage 1-6+1
Damage Immunity Increased (Cold)
Damage Immunity Increased (Electrical)
Damage Immunity Increased (Fire)
Concealed
Damage Reduction

Summoned Shadow Lord
AC 22
HP 70
AB +8
Damage 1-8+5/1-8+5/2=12+5
Damage Immunity Increased (Cold)
Damage Immunity Increased (Electrical)
Damage Immunity Increased (Fire)
Concealed
Damage Reduction

Summoned Epic Shadowlord
This summons increases with the level of the shadowdancer at the rate of shadowdancer level -1. ie a 15 th level shadowdancer will summon a level 14th level shadowlord.

The first level you can take the feat epic shadowlord is level 13. A very important aspect of the Epic Shadowlord is that it does not have concealment

Epic Shadowlord Stats
Damage 1-6/1-6/2-12

Level 12 Shadowlord (summoned at level 13 Shadowdancer)
AC 22,Hp 132, AB 16/11/6, Damage bonus 6

Level 13 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 143, AB 17/12/7, Damage bonus 6

Level 14 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 154, AB 18/13/8, Damage bonus 6

Level 15 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 165, AB 19/14/9, Damage bonus 6

Level 16 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 176, AB 21/16/11, Damage bonus 6

Level 17 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp187, AB 22/17/12, Damage bonus 7

level 18 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 198, AB 23/18/13, Damage bonus 7

Level 19 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 209, AB 24/19/14, Damage bonus 7

Level 20 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 220, AB 25/20/15, Damage bonus 7

Level 21 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 231, AB 26/21/16, Damage bonus 7

Level 22 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 242, AB 27/22/17, Damage bonus 7

Level 23 Shadowlord
AC 22, Hp 253, AB 28/23/18, Damage bonus 7

Level 24 Shadowlord
AC 24, Hp 264, AB 29/24/19, Damage bonus 7

Level 25 Shadowlord
AC 24, Hp 275, AB 30/25/20, Damage bonus 8

Level 26 Shadowlord
AC 24, Hp 306, AB 31/26/21, Damage bonus 8

Level 27 Shadowlord
AC 24, Hp 317, AB 32/27/22, Damage bonus 9

Level 28 Shadowlord
AC 24, Hp 348, AB 33/28/23, Damage bonus 9

Level 29 Shadowlord
AC 24, Hp 359, AB 35/30/25, Damage bonus

Syrath
_________________
It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!! (quote)Posted 07/19/05 15:19:29 (GMT) -- syrath1001


Both the manual and the grimoire are wrong when it comes to the shadowdancer summon.

Trust me I summoned all the shadows and looked at them from level 13 to level 30 SD.

Point taken.
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