The Incredible Fighting Rogue of War: ( Fighter 6 / CoT 14 / Rogue 20 )

Per my usual, this is neither a Johnny One-note nor a One-trick pony, but yet another flexible, versatile build that can do many things, and do them well.

After I made this I carefully did a Guild search for a build that was even close, namely, an Epic Dodging-Rogue-centric Fighter/CoT that could get in some good licks. Xitooner had one that is actually quite similar: Xitooner's Martial Rogue It was similar in many ways. It took Epic Dodge at Lvl 30, acquired the same AB, same AC, same skill points, same race. They differed in that the Rogue of War gets 80 more Hit Points, is a dualwielder, does +1 more damage, has a +1 better Reflex save, a +4 better Fortitude Save, and a +5 better Will Save. Xitooner's is unique in that it got EWF/EWS in a ranged weapon and a finessable weapon, something rarely done, yet something highly effective for a Rogue build. This build, however, still achieves a modest AB with a bow at 39 (only 3 less than the Xitooner's), so he can still make decent use of his sneak attack from a ranged position. However, ranged attack was never the focus of this build.

The Incredible Fighting Rogue of War
Race: Dwarf
Alignment: Non-Evil
Playable from 1-40, PvM & PvP Lite

Str15(16)
Int14
Wis8
Dex16(30)
Con16
Chr6

Ftr6/CoT14/Rogue20

1Rogue1, Knockdown
2Rogue2
3Fighter1, Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapons
4Fighter2, Weapon Focus: Kukri, Str16
5Fighter3
6Fighter4, Weapon Specialization: Kukris, Ambidexterity
7Rogue3
8Fighter5, Dex17
9CoT1, TWF
10CoT2, Improved TWF
11CoT3
12Rogue4, Improved KD, Dex18
13CoT4, Improved Crit: Kukris
14CoT5
15CoT6, Blindfighting, Toughness
16CoT7, Dex19
17Rogue5
18CoT8, Iron Will, Expertise
19CoT9
20Rogue6, Dex20
21CoT10, Great Dex I, EWF: Kukris
22Rogue7
23Fighter6, EWS: Kukris
24Rogue8, Great Dex II, Dex23
25Rogue9
26Rogue10, Improved Evasion
27Rogue11 Great Dex III
28Rogue12, Dex25
29Rogue13, Defensive Roll
30Rogue14, Epic Dodge
31Rogue15
32Rogue16, Dex26, Crippling Strike
33CoT11, Epic Prowess
34Rogue17
35Rogue18
36CoT12, Great Dex IV, Dex28
37Rogue19, Slippery Mind
38CoT13
39CoT14, Armor Skin, Great Dex V,
40Rogue20, Dex30

480 Hit Points (720 with +12 to Con)
Skill Points: 310
Naked AC: 30/33with Shield/38 Shield+Expertise
Max AC with +5 Gear: 68
#Attacks: 6/Round(7hasted)
Dualwielding AB: 40/35/30/25/40/35
Max ITWF AB: 66/61/56/51/66/61
Base Damage1d4+ 3Str+ 6EWS +10d6sneak//(x2/15-20)
AB w/Bow: 39

Saving Throws
Fort: 32 (38)
Will: 24 (30)/Slippery Mind
Reflex: 39 (45)
( ) indicates +4spellcraft and +2 Dwarven Hardiness to Spells

Skills
Hide: 43 (53)
Move Silently: 43(53)
Tumble: 40
Set Traps: 35(45)
UMD: 37 (35)
Spellcraft: 18 (20)
Discipline: 42 (45)
Disable Traps: 10 (20)
Search: 10
Heal: 5
OpenLocks: 10

Strengths
Epic Dodge
High Hit Points for an Epic Dodger
Good Dualwielding AB
10d6 Sneak
Excellent base damage in spite Dex-base
Very versatile due to UMD and Skill Set
Excellent Saves
Very Flexible Warrior--can fight ranged and land sneaks, or go toe-to-toe and can launch, if hasted, 7 attacks per round.

Weaknesses
Poor Persuasion Skill
Must rely on UMD to buff self (some would call that a strength)
No Self-Concealment or HiPS

Player's Guide to The Incredible Fighting Rogue of War

1. Strength and Constitution Items will truly make him formidable. With the right combination of gear and buffs, he can cap his Strength out at 28, which will make for some nice crits if he is in a position where sneaks aren't working. This also will allow him to cut through DR opponents or sneak/crit immune opponents. His Con can also cap out at 28, which means you can have an Epic Dodger with 720 Hit Points who can deal some respectable damage.

2. Remember that he is not a fighter with Rogue abilities, but a Rogue who can fight. Don't fight fair in combat. Set traps wherever you can, launch a sneak bow attack on your enemy, let him fall into your traps, go back into Stealth mode, and then launch again with ITWF kukris for the final blow.

3. Don't forget your UMD skill. This will allow you to cast from all scrolls. Keep a working inventory of your favorite buffs, like Bulls Strength, Cats Grace, Endurance, Protection from Alignment, Improved Invis, etc. I usually will dedicate my 1st inventory page to scrolls for easy access and management, and arrange set-ups in my alternate Quickslot bar.

4. Remember to top out your Rogue Skills on Rogue level-ups. Levels 2, 7, 12, 17, 22, 27, 32, 37 are the magic numbers where you can pump your Tumble Skill to another 5 base ranks, and gain another AC bonus. Remember that on Fighter/CoT levels, you only need to top out Discipline. Bank the rest for Rogue level-ups. At Level 13 you can cross-class Spellcraft to 8 points. Counting your +2 for Int, this will be an instant +2 to Magic Saves.

5. Pre-level 9, you only have 2 modes of combat: ranged, and kukri/shield. He will not be able to dualwield effectively until Lvl 9. By Lvl 10 he can swing with the best of them. When going to Kukri/Shield mode, make sure you make a seperate quickslot for your Shield so you can still go Stealthed and commit all your Roguery. First sign of trouble, or a forced fight, and you can just hit your quickslot and have instant AC.

6. Generating Sneak Attacks: Improved Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, and Improved Knockdown. Also, you can get them by Stealth mode, or by using Ranged Weapons stealthed, and also by Summoning Creatures with UMD scrolls, and then flanking them while they engage your Summons. Also by potions and scrolls via UMD.
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Edited By Kail Pendragon on 10/12/07 16:05

alright, this is a very good build. A fine varitation of a fighter/rogue build. although i have one question.
why take 20 rogue and not 19 rogue?

I think it would be cool if this build could be a bit more threatening when facing a sitaution, where he cannot hide or stay behind a brute. 15 CoT would grant you a better fighting chance while using divine wrath. This calls for a human build IMO and that is 1 more feat. that feat can be used for divine might and add divine damage on his attack. I think it could be a really cool addition to the build and it becomes even more viable due to his UMD skill. He can use alot of items that can boost his CHA to great heights.

Quote: Posted 07/31/05 20:02:50 (GMT) -- Kalmar_Oxin

alright, this is a very good build. A fine varitation of a fighter/rogue build. although i have one question.
why take 20 rogue and not 19 rogue?

I think it would be cool if this build could be a bit more threatening when facing a sitaution, where he cannot hide or stay behind a brute. 15 CoT would grant you a better fighting chance while using divine wrath. This calls for a human build IMO and that is 1 more feat. that feat can be used for divine might and add divine damage on his attack. I think it could be a really cool addition to the build and it becomes even more viable due to his UMD skill. He can use alot of items that can boost his CHA to great heights.

I disagree with the Divine Wrath aspect. Even with a Human build, you'd only have at best a base 10 CHA (and probably only 8 ), which would mean the best you could do is +6 CHA modifier (and probably only +5), due to the +12 ability boost cap. While Humans get another feat and 43 more skill points, Dwarfs get the +2 CON (40 more HPs) and +2 on all saves vs spells. That's not a bad trade-off. Also, why play a Human when you can be a Dwarf!

As for the Divine Might feat: not possible, as one of the prerequisites is the ability to turn undead, which the CoT doesn't have.

That brings up the point of the 20th Rogue level. With not much use for another CoT level or another FTR levles, Rogue is probably the best option, due to the few extra skill points, and the abilty to maximize several key Rogue-based skills.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!

Quote: Posted 07/31/05 20:02:50 (GMT) -- Kalmar_Oxin

alright, this is a very good build. A fine varitation of a fighter/rogue build. although i have one question.
why take 20 rogue and not 19 rogue?

Thanks, and some good questions. Hope I can field this adequately.

First, It does take 19 Rogue. And it takes it at Lvl37 to top out Tumble and to gain that Bonus feat 3 levels earlier than having to wait for Lvl40. And then the 20th Rogue level is used at the end to top out all other Rogue skills.

Quote: I think it would be cool if this build could be a bit more threatening when facing a sitaution, where he cannot hide or stay behind a brute. 15 CoT would grant you a better fighting chance while using divine wrath. This calls for a human build IMO and that is 1 more feat. that feat can be used for divine might and add divine damage on his attack. I think it could be a really cool addition to the build and it becomes even more viable due to his UMD skill. He can use alot of items that can boost his CHA to great heights.

Well, The build was never meant to use Charisma, though it is something I considered. While it is true, he could use Divine Wrath with some Charisma boosts, he cannot take the Divine Feats without taking a Class that grants Turn Undead. It would also require a major commitment to Charisma(13Raw score). At this point, he no longer is a fighting Rogue, but a bloody Paladin.

But, even if you made no investment in Charisma, you are only faced with a -2penalty vs. a -1 penalty with a human, so Divine Wrath and Smite Evil can still be made to work, provided you can buff your Charisma to 12 and beyond. It is a possibility. However, so far in testing, it really wasn't an issue.

In the early stages of his career, Lvls 1-8, he was landing some major blows that rivaled any fighter, some as crits and some as sneaks, and all between 19-30 pts per pop. Not bad if you ask me. And he did so without Strength or Dex enhancing gear, using only a simple +2 kukri, against heavily armored warrior-types with 80+ hit points. In fact, he was outperforming the Divine Mighting Paladin in the group, who was a bit surprised how this guy could not only take a hit, but dish it right back, and then still have all the lovely versatility of a Rogue.

But those were some good questions, and I thank you for helping to clear up any misconceptions.

Edit: I see Cin beat me to the punch. Thanks.
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Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 07/31/05 21:10

Quote: Posted 07/31/05 14:10:49 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

1Rogue1, Knockdown
2Rogue2
3Fighter1, Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapons
4Fighter2, Weapon Focus: Kukri, Str16
5Fighter3
6Fighter4, Weapon Specialization: Kukris, Ambidexterity
7Rogue3
8Fighter5, Dex17
9CoT1, TWF

I would switch Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity.

You may not recommend dual-wielding over a shield in those first few levels, but it can help. In such situations, I often find that the +2 to AB difference between the two (TWF = +2 Main-hand, Ambi = +2 Off-hand) is better spent improving the main-hand's AB.

Doing this also has significant impact on your combat strategy as well.

Consider your default attack is at -2/-6 with Two-Weapon Fighting. If you attempt a Knockdown, the first attack will be at -6. If you succeed however, that second attack will be at -2 (thanks to the -4 AC penalty of prone). You've just switched your attack pattern around and that second attack will also be a sneak attack.

Food for thought.

~Terra~
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When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty.
I only think about how to solve the problem.
But when I have finished, if the solution is not beautiful, I know it is wrong.

Quote: Posted 07/31/05 23:34:19 (GMT) -- Countess Terra

Quote: Posted 07/31/05 14:10:49 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord

1Rogue1, Knockdown
2Rogue2
3Fighter1, Weapon Finesse, Exotic Weapons
4Fighter2, Weapon Focus: Kukri, Str16
5Fighter3
6Fighter4, Weapon Specialization: Kukris, Ambidexterity
7Rogue3
8Fighter5, Dex17
9CoT1, TWF

I would switch Two-Weapon Fighting and Ambidexterity.

You may not recommend dual-wielding over a shield in those first few levels, but it can help. In such situations, I often find that the +2 to AB difference between the two (TWF = +2 Main-hand, Ambi = +2 Off-hand) is better spent improving the main-hand's AB.

Doing this also has significant impact on your combat strategy as well.

Consider your default attack is at -2/-6 with Two-Weapon Fighting. If you attempt a Knockdown, the first attack will be at -6. If you succeed however, that second attack will be at -2 (thanks to the -4 AC penalty of prone). You've just switched your attack pattern around and that second attack will also be a sneak attack.

Food for thought.

~Terra~

You are wise, Terra, definitely beyond my skill and arts. While such advice seems trivial and meaningless to most, it definitely is a worthwhile suggestion, and one that is effortless to implement. I thank you.
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