Skills (216 Points if I got it right) ------ Concentration 43 (45) Discipline 43 (51) Hide 5 (4) Perform 27 (30) Tumble 40 (39) SpellCraft 43 (45) Use Magic Device 15 (17)
and now I will go to sleep. Please point out any errors or suck, I have probably made some. Will check this thread first thing tomorrow Night all!
Thank you
Edited By griphook on 08/11/05 18:57
Nice build. And you get some extra points for style. If I may, I have a few suggestions which may or may not be helpful:
1. I belive you miscalculated your skill points. I think he actually gets 240. This gives pause, because now you have a choice. You can crank UMD up to 37, or you can skim from Concentration to crank Taunt up to 43. Personally, I prefer Taunting BGs.
2. Drop Strong Soul and LoH and take Power Attack and Cleave right away. Then, take Divine Might and Extra Turning when you qualify with your BG levels. This would truly maximize your charisma throughout the character's career. Your saves are still going to be solid. One eagles splendour and bardsong will see to that, plus your high spellcraft.
3. I would drop Epic Mage Armor. You'll have items at that point which will reduce the effectivenees EMA provides. In its place, I would consider Epic Skill Focus: Taunt, or a Great Strength. If you take the Great Strength, that would require you to drop Toughness for another Great Str. I would keep Lingering Song.
This would be a fun build to play, especially if you can get all the working parts to run at once, i.e., Bardsong, Curse Song, then hit opponent with Taunt, then launch attack with 2 stacking Bulls Strength with Divine Might and Power Attack turned on. Has the potential to do some nice damage.
blackguard can't take extra turning. for some reason that is limited to cleric/paladin.
That's a very good point. Well, I suppose Divine Shield then, to provide added defense if needed. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
personally, I won't take divine might/divine shield without at least 20 cha base. otherwise it doesn't last long enough to be useful.
I recommend getting blind-fight and knockdown if you can fit them someplace. Both are helpful against caster enemies. blind-fight for those that like to cast improved invis. knockdown to prevent them from casting altogether. knockdown will also help you land sneak attacks for a little damage boost.
I'd also consider leaving the palemaster levels for epic. going 12 bard/8 blackguard pre-epic gives you +1 bab. you won't get epic spells until later by doing that however. getting 12 bard also gives you +4 gmw pretty early, which will be useful if you're in a low/mid magic world for leveling.
I hate to say it, but jjjhhhlll brings up another good point. However, assume you get your hands on a +5 Charisma Item, and assume then you cast Eagles Splendour for a +4 bonus. The Charisma is now 24, and for 7 rounds you can Wrath for an extra 7 Points of damage. Assume you also have reached 16BAB, and let's assume that, hasted, you land 3 out of 5 attacks per round. That's 21 extra points of damage per round for 7 rounds, for a combined 147 extra points of damage.
So, I don't think he'll need a 20 Base score to make it effective.
However, Blindfighting and Knockdown shouldn't be overlooked. Unfortunately, these are the dilemmas we face when we choose Bards and Blackguards. They each place feat demands on the player, and you must make your decision based upon you environment. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
yeah, it works with 16 base cha. with +12 from items/buffs he gets 9 rounds of 9 damage. Also consider that time spent casting shield/might is time not spent attacking, so every 10th round you lose all five attacks (so minus 81 avg damage from added damage (3*27)).
also consider that divine might is great against enemies with damage reduction and resistance, since it is extra damage that won't be resisted.
20 cha is my personal preference. I don't like having to re-cast divine might/divine shield all the time. I like to have at least 10 rounds of attacking between buffs (mostly conditioned from playing clerics and paladins with divine favor). So with 20 cha (32 with items/buffs), it is +11, so 10 rounds of overlapping favor/might/shield.
a blackguard doesn't waste a half-round casting divine favor, so I guess I'd consider only 18 base cha. hmmm. now that I'm thinking... it might be worthwhile to trade 2 str for 2 cha. if you add bab by taking less palemaster pre-epic, you will have the same ab as the posted build and the same damage.
Well, it seems that Extra Turning could be dropped for Knockdown or Blind-Fight (I'd prefer Knockdown). Divine Might still does look good in my eyes. Even if it lasts for only 5 rounds for 5 extra damage, it's still extra ;D Nevertheless, these are indeed good points.
And yes, one may always customize a build to fit her environment and/or playing style.
Edit: about the 12/8 Pre-Epic leveling: it's simply not possible. It would mean a significant reduction in your Bard/Curse Song effectiveness, or would make you lose your Epic Warding (and AC). Basicly it would cripple the build, as there are really no extra levels here to be changed to Blackguard.
Edited By FinneousPJ on 08/08/05 21:35
it is entirely possible afaict.
12 bard/8 blackguard pre-epic. gives 17 bab. 8 bard is sufficient to qualify for blackguard.
should be possible without changing final levels of 16 bard/8 blackguard/16 palemaster. just switching 4 bard levels pre-epic instead of 4 palemaster levels.
take palemaster so that your 16th level falls on lvl 39 and you can take both epic warding and epic mage armor.
Am I missing something?
No, that works. What makes that attractaive is that the build is stronger in pre-epic. Stronger song, can cast 4th level spells(Improved Invis), more skill points, etc. What's also nice about jjhhlll's suggestion for an additional +2 to Charsima is that gives you a bonus 4th level spell slot. Another Improved Invis or Warcry is always nice. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I made a CHa based version of this a long time ago which worked pretty well. I had less bard levels though for a second epic spell and the tougher blackguard pet. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
No, that works. What makes that attractaive is that the build is stronger in pre-epic. Stronger song, can cast 4th level spells(Improved Invis), more skill points, etc. What's also nice about jjhhlll's suggestion for an additional +2 to Charsima is that gives you a bonus 4th level spell slot. Another Improved Invis or Warcry is always nice.
FYI, my (posted) Bard 8/PM 16/BG 16 was Bard 7/PM 3/BG 10 at level 20.
Kaliban. _________________ "Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover
Oh right, lol, I was thinking about 12 Blackguard/8 Bard for 2 AB Sorry. Well anyway, 12 Bard/8 Blackguard would work
BG cant take extra turning??
No, itīs limited to clerics and paladins - perhaps a bug but that's how it at the moment. _________________ Character Build Calculator(works with Excel, Open Office) 2.83: updated to NWN 1.69.
Night all!
Sorry. Well anyway, 12 Bard/8 Blackguard would work