The purpose of this build was to provide a party with a self-reliant, disappearing, sneak attacking defender. On our PW, discussions lamenting the rogue as a lost art lead me to find a build that would be survivable in a high AB, high damage world with more than a few true seeing critters. HIPS is great until you get into those situations where True Sight abounds. This build would compensate the lost ability in those situations by reverting to a tank and going toe to toe if need be.

Rogue(24), Dwarven Defender(14), Shadowdancer(2), Dwarf

STR: 10
DEX: 17 (23)
CON: 19 (23)
WIS: 8
INT: 10
CHA: 6

Hitpoints: 628
Skillpoints: 256
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 24/17/28
BAB: 25
AB (max, naked): 34 (melee), 31 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 24/26
Spell Casting:

Hide 29(35), Move Silently 29(35), Open Lock 27(33), Tumble 42(48), UMD 27(25)

01: Rogue(1): Power Attack, Dodge
02: Rogue(2): Ro: (Evasion)
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse, Ro: (Uncanny Dodge I)
04: Rogue(4): CON+1, (CON=20)
05: Rogue(5)
06: Rogue(6): Toughness
07: Rogue(7)
08: Rogue(8): CON+1, (CON=21)
09: Rogue(9): Mobility
10: Rogue(10): Defensive Roll
11: Rogue(11)
12: Shadowdancer(1): CON+1, Weapon Focus: Shortsword, SD: (HIPS), (CON=22)
13:Dwarven Defender(1), DD: (Defensive Stance)
14: Dwarven Defender(2), DD: (Defensive Awareness I)
15: Dwarven Defender(3), Ambidexterity
16: Dwarven Defender(4), CON+1, (CON=23)
17: Dwarven Defender(5),
18: Rogue(12), Two-Weapon Fighting
19: Rogue(13), Improved Evasion
20: Rogue(14), DEX+1, (DEX=18)
21: Rogue(15), Damage Reduction I
22: Dwarven Defender(6)
23: Dwarven Defender(7)
24: Dwarven Defender(8), DEX+1, Epic Damage Reduction II, (DEX=19)
25: Dwarven Defender(9),
26: Dwarven Defender(10),
27: Dwarven Defender(11), Epic Damage Reduction III
28: Dwarven Defender(12), DEX+1, (DEX=20)
29: Dwarven Defender(13),
30: Dwarven Defender(14), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Epic Toughness I
31: Rogue(16), Improved Sneak Attack I
32: Rogue(17), DEX+1, (DEX=21)
33: Rogue(18), Improved Sneak Attack II
34: Rogue(19), Improved Sneak Attack III
35: Rogue(20),
36: Rogue(21), DEX+1, Improved Sneak Attack IV, (DEX=22)
37: Rogue(22)
38: Rogue(23)
39: Rogue(24), Improved Sneak Attack V, Improved Sneak Attack VI
40: Rogue(24), DEX+1, (DEX=23) Other than some low level use, I don't see the SD level(s) doing much for you here. You presumably take the 2nd SD level at 40th (since you listed rogue(24) a 2nd time there) when rogue 25 would net you one more sneak attack.

The pre-epic SD level also prevents you from getting that 4th main hand attack too by lowering your AB to 15. Assuming you get haste, 7 attacks per round means 3 attacks the first flurry, and the first flurry is what matters in sneak attacking (solo). With your build's level of sneak damage, increasing its potential by 50% in that first flurry is huge.

Beyond that, I like DD / Rogue combinations. They make very survivable rogues. Ah, nice catch. The 40th level should be SD, but that was an arbitrary level. I think I like your advice and will go with 25 Rogue for the extra sneak.

I do believe the SD HIPS can be useful even in epic levels. Our PW does have some nice gear that can add nicely to the Hide and MS skills.

Thanks for the feedback! Just a quick question...why do you end Dex and Con on odd numbers? wouldn't adding on less to Con and one more to Dex result in a higher AC without influencing HP?

-C
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"Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things." - Miyamoto Musashi Hmm, yep, great suggestion. Will do that, thanks! And I would start with rogue(12)/DD(7)/SD(1) - that would give you +1 AB, +1 attack and +1 Fortitude/Will save.

I donīt think the fourth attack is that important but if you can get it without weakening the build then there's no reason not to do it.

Instead of DD take rogue levels at level 21/22 and you end up with the same char but better stats.
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Character Build Calculator(works with Excel, Open Office) 2.83: updated to NWN 1.69. Hiya kinda new here so if I am wrong I apologize.
2-feats at lvl 1 as a Dwarf???

I reworked a few things and added more levels of SD to give you Epic Dodge. I thought it would help the build. I sacrificed some of the sneak damage in order to increase the dex. I lowed the con to 22 and raised Dex to 26. Take a look and tell me what you think.

Rogue(21), Dwarven Defender(14), Shadowdancer(5), Dwarf

STR: 10
DEX: 18 (26)
CON: 18 (22)
WIS: 8
INT: 10
CHA: 6

Hitpoints: 614
Skillpoints: 250
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/18/30
BAB: 27
AB (max, naked): 38 (melee), 35 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 28/32

Discipline 43(43), Heal 10(9), Hide 40(48), Move Silently 40(48), Open Lock 15(23), Spellcraft 20(20), Tumble 40(48), UMD 22(20)

*note* I did not spend a lot of time on skills they can be reworked however you see fit.

01: Rogue(1): Dodge
02: Rogue(2): Ro: (Evasion)
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse, Ro: (Uncanny Dodge I)
04: Rogue(4): CON+1, (CON=19)
05: Rogue(5)
06: Rogue(6): Mobility
07: Rogue(7)
08: Rogue(8): CON+1, (CON=20)
09: Rogue(8), Shadowdancer(1): Toughness, SD: (Hide in Plain Sight)
10: Rogue(8), Shadowdancer(2)
11: Rogue(8), Shadowdancer(3)
12: Rogue(8), Shadowdancer(4): CON+1, Weapon Focus, (CON=21)
13: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(1), Shadowdancer(4): DD: (Defensive Stance)
14: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(2), Shadowdancer(4): DD: (Defensive Awareness I)
15: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(3), Shadowdancer(4): Two-Weapon Fighting
16: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(4), Shadowdancer(4): DEX+1, (DEX=19)
17: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(5), Shadowdancer(4)
18: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(6), Shadowdancer(4): Ambidexterity
19: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(7), Shadowdancer(4)
20: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(8), Shadowdancer(4): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
21: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(8), Shadowdancer(5): Epic Damage Reduction I, SD: (Defensive Roll)
22: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(9), Shadowdancer(5)
23: Rogue(8), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5)
24: Rogue(9), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): DEX+1, Epic Damage Reduction II, (DEX=21)
25: Rogue(10), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): Improved Evasion
26: Rogue(11), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5)
27: Rogue(12), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): Epic Damage Reduction III
28: Rogue(13), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): DEX+1, Slippery Mind, (DEX=22)
29: Rogue(14), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5)
30: Rogue(15), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=23)
31: Rogue(16), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): Improved Sneak Attack I
32: Rogue(17), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): DEX+1, (DEX=24)
33: Rogue(18), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): Great Dexterity II, (DEX=25)
34: Rogue(19), Dwarven Defender(10), Shadowdancer(5): Improved Sneak Attack II
35: Rogue(19), Dwarven Defender(11), Shadowdancer(5)
36: Rogue(19), Dwarven Defender(12), Shadowdancer(5): DEX+1, Epic Weapon Focus, (DEX=26)
37: Rogue(19), Dwarven Defender(13), Shadowdancer(5)
38: Rogue(20), Dwarven Defender(13), Shadowdancer(5)
39: Rogue(21), Dwarven Defender(13), Shadowdancer(5): Epic Dodge
40: Rogue(21), Dwarven Defender(14), Shadowdancer(5): CON+1, Armor Skin, (CON=22) I like it, well done.
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TeoDeathDealer
Member of SoulForge PW (Action)
Quote: Posted 08/11/05 14:01:15 (GMT) -- Rich63125

Hiya kinda new here so if I am wrong I apologize.
2-feats at lvl 1 as a Dwarf???

I guess he had just forgotten to delete the Power Attack feat. With STR 10 he can't take it anyway (and he does not need it as prequisite for other feats).
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Character Build Calculator(works with Excel, Open Office) 2.83: updated to NWN 1.69. Well, thanks for all the feedback. Have adjusted the SD level to be post-epic to ensure my 4 attacks.

Also, I read grizzled's BG post with interest. I assume then that if you have a sucessfull KD your sneak attaks hit? If so, may try to see if I can get IKD.

01: Rogue(1): Dodge
02: Rogue(2): Ro: (Evasion)
03: Rogue(3): Weapon Finesse, Ro: (Uncanny Dodge I)
04: Rogue(4): CON+1, (CON=20)
05: Rogue(5)
06: Rogue(6): Toughness
07: Rogue(7)
08: Rogue(8): CON+1, (CON=21)
09: Rogue(9): Mobility
10: Rogue(10): Improved Evasion
11: Rogue(11)
12: Rogue(12): CON+1, Weapon Focus: Shortsword, (CON=22)
13: Dwarven Defender(1): DD: (Defensive Stance)
14: Dwarven Defender(2): DD: (Defensive Awareness I)
15: Dwarven Defender(3): Ambidexterity
16: Dwarven Defender(4): CON+1, (CON=23)
17: Dwarven Defender(5)
18: Rogue(13) Two-Weapon Fighting, Crippling Strike
19: Rogue(14)
20: Rogue(15): DEX+1, (DEX=18)
21: Rogue(16): Epic Damage Reduction I, Improved Sneak Attack I
22: Shadowdancer(1): SD: (Hide in Plain Sight)
23: Dwarven Defender(6)
24: Dwarven Defender(7): DEX+1, Epic Damage Reduction II, (DEX=19)
25: Dwarven Defender(8)
26: Dwarven Defender(9)
27: Dwarven Defender(10): Epic Damage Reduction III
28: Dwarven Defender(11): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
29: Dwarven Defender(12)
30: Dwarven Defender(13): Epic Weapon Focus: Shortsword,
31: Dwarven Defender(14): Epic Prowess
32: Rogue(17): DEX+1, (DEX=21)
33: Rogue(18): Improved Sneak Attack II
34: Rogue(19): Improved Sneak Attack III
35: Rogue(20)
36: Rogue(21): DEX+1, Improved Sneak Attack IV, (DEX=22)
37: Rogue(22)
38: Rogue(23)
39: Rogue(24): Improved Sneak Attack V, Improved Sneak Attack VI
40: Rogue(25): DEX+1, (DEX=23)

Rogue(25), Dwarven Defender(14), Shadowdancer(1), Dwarf

STR: 10
DEX: 17 (23)
CON: 19 (23)
WIS: 8
INT: 10
CHA: 6

Hitpoints: 606
Skillpoints: 258
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 25/18/26
BAB: 26
AB (max, naked): 36 (melee), 33 (ranged)
AC (naked/mundane armor/shield only): 24/26
Spell Casting:

Heal 43(42), Hide 29(35), Move Silently 29(35), Open Lock 27(33), Tumble 42(48), UMD 27(25)
Quote: Posted 08/16/05 15:41:05 (GMT) -- TeoDeathDealer

Well, thanks for all the feedback. Have adjusted the SD level to be post-epic to ensure my 4 attacks.

Also, I read grizzled's BG post with interest. I assume then that if you have a sucessfull KD your sneak attaks hit? If so, may try to see if I can get IKD.

A successful KD will make your opponent prone for 1 round. All subsequent attacks while your opponent's prone made by your character will be sneak attacks and also at +4 to hit.

IKD won't make any difference to your sneak attacks, but it will allow you to knock down larger creatures and make your KD attempt slightly harder to resist.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!