An attempt to make a pure, playable Assassin.

The Deathstroke
Dwarf or Human
Fighter8/Rogue2/Assassin30
Alignment: Evil-esque
Playable 1-40, PvM, PvP Lite

Str16(30)
Int14
Wis8
Dex15(18)
Con16
Chr6

1Rogue1, Stealthy
2Fighter1, Weapon Focus: Mace
3Fighter2, TWF, Ambidexterity
4Fighter3, Str17
5Fighter4, Weapon Specialization
6Rogue2, Knockdown
7Assassin1
8Assassin2, Str18
9Assassin3, Improved Knockdown
10Assassin4
11Assassin5
12Assassin6, ITWF, Str19
13Assassin7
14Assassin8
15Assassin9, Iron Will
16Fighter5, Str20
17Assassin10
18Fighter6, Toughness, Blindfighting
19Fighter7
20Fighter8, Str21, Improved Crit: Mace
21Assassin11, EWF: Mace
22Assassin12
23Assassin13
24Assassin14, Epic Prowess, ESF: Hide, Str22
25Assassin15
26Assassin16
27Assassin17, Armor Skin
28Assassin18, ESF: Move Silently, Str23
29Assassin19
30Assassin20, Great Str I
31Assassin21
32Assassin22, Great Dex I, Str25
33Assassin23, Great Str II
34Assassin24
35Assassin25
36Assassin26, Great Str III, Great Dex II, Str28
37Assassin27
38Assassin28
39Assassin29, Great Str IV
40Assassin30, Great Dex III, Str30

Death Attack DC: 42
16d6 Sneak Attack
AC: 32 in Plate/shield
AC: 26 in leather
AB: 40
Dualwielding: 38/33/27/23/38/33
Hit Points: 432

Skill Points = 262

Fort: 22 (25)
Reflex: 26 (31)
Will: 16 (21)

Discipline:22 (32)
Hide: 43 (59)
MS: 43 (59)
Tumble: 40
Set Traps: 41(45)
UMD: 42(40)
Disable Traps: 5
Open Locks: 5
Search: 5
Spellcraft: 8(10)


I must confess that I am a closet fan of the Assassin class. I have adopted a philosophy that pure Assassins really benefit from going Strength-based. This seems contradictory to the Epic Bonus feats that they acquire (Great Dex, Epic Reflexes, etc.) But if one takes a strength-based approach, they can use the bonus feats to acquire the Great Dex's to get their Dex up to 18-20. What this does is allow the Assassin the flexibility to approach scenarios with different armours. With the 18 Dex (20 if Halfling) and a couple items or buffs and leather/padded armour, they can still acquire an AC comparable to most melee builds, still have stealth better than most rogue builds, and pack enough punch in case Death Attacks aren't the answer.

Alternatively, he can don full plate and shield and wade into combat as if a warrior. With ESFs in Hide and Move Silently, and a modest Dex score, with Stealthy and other enhancements, he can stealth just as good as any dex-based rogue without armour. He can still acquire a 30 raw Strength and hit just as hard as a fighter, but yet have an edge because he can give himself Concealment.

Taking 2 Rogue levels gives him the Evasion he needs, the fat wad of 40 start-up skill points, a bonus sneak attack, and to pick up the 8 Hide/MS. 8 Fighter levels is a perfect fit for the BAB, the ITWF, and the Weapon specialization for the extra punch in pre-epic. The 40 UMD will allow him to wear all the Wizard gear to pump up Int for death attack DC, which should be quite formidable in pre-epic. Coupled with his Stealth Magic-- Darkness, Ghostly Visage, Invisibility, and Improved Inivisibility-- he becomes quite formidable. Without using any magic items, buffs, or equipment, and going in completely naked with mundane maces, he took out every 40th level character I summoned, without taking 1 point of damage. A 42 DC death attack is quite effective.

The build shines over dex-based assassins in those situations where critters are sneak immune, or immune to paralysis. He still can damage them with his Strength/WS, and still maintain decent hit points and AC. He can also self-buff with UMD, and still lay Deadly traps if all else fails.

The build has two weaknesses, as I see them, and after some discussion with Cinnabar Din, we decided that the weaknesses can be overcome by players who take active preventative steps:

Low Will Save: 16(21). UMD can address this with Clarity and Protection from Alignment scrolls. Also, there are plenty of items that grant either Will Save bonuses or Mind-Affecting Immunity (Cowl of Warding)

Modest AB: only 40, 38 in dualwielding. In high magic environments this could be an issue. With proper scrolls, enhancements, and strength items, his AB can reach 66. It should be noted that a pure Assassin build(i.e., Lvl30) really can't get above a 41AB, and that's only if Ranger is chosen for the other 10 levels. The exception, of course, is going Dex-based, but my opinion is that they don't really benefit from a Dex base unless going for Epic Dodge and SC, or by choosing Half-orc and min/maxing your Strength(in which case you lose skill points, hit points and DA DC). The most balanced approach, I have discovered, is either Human or Dwarf, with Halflings coming in a close third. Elves would tie with Halflings, but XP penalties knock them down the list.

There are only 2 other builds that I know of that take 30 Assassin levels: the first,

Snake Eyes , goes fo the highest Death Attack DC possible, and isn't really playable(or even viable).The second,

King Harbromm's The StoneDeath , is much more playable and closer to the heart of what the Deathstroke tries to accomplish.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!

Edited By Kail Pendragon on 07/04/10 16:01

Neat build. I do like assasins as well and this could be great fun. A few questions:

1. Why do you consider dwarf versus the .5ling or human?

2. Why choose the mace versus a bladed weapon with higher crit range?

3. Noticed you took ambidetry, but not improved two weapon fighting. Why is that? Will this be a duel weilding character?

The questions above aren't criticism, just want to understand the advanges. Thank!
Quote: Noticed you took ambidetry, but not improved two weapon fighting. Why is that? Will this be a duel weilding character?

look at lvl 12. he took imp 2 weap fighting. (ITWF)
twiz

p.s. i cant answer the other questions.
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Come Join Us!! Nice build grizz ).

Syrath
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It's SHADOWDANCER, dammit, shadowdancer!!!
Quote: Posted 08/10/05 20:12:21 (GMT) -- TeoDeathDealer

Neat build. I do like assasins as well and this could be great fun.
It is fun. For once, you don't have to wait until Epic to be an effective Assassin. He comes out of the womb fighting and killing, and is as powerful an Assassin you'll find in pre-epic.

Quote: 1. Why do you consider dwarf versus the .5ling or human?
Good questions. I actually stated in the last paragraph of the build that Dwarf or Human allow for the best approach. Halflings make it harder to go strength-based but can work as well. Going human gives the build extra skill points(which Assassins always need), and would also allow for another feat, in which case I recommend either Exotic or Skill Focus: Move Silently.

Quote: 2. Why choose the mace versus a bladed weapon with higher crit range?
For Death/Sneak attack, crit range means very little. He could use 1d1 twigs and still land 16d6 sneak damage. Mace is chosen only because it is bludgeoning damage, and bludgeoning is perhaps the least resisted of the 3 weapon types.

Quote: 3. Noticed you took ambidetry, but not improved two weapon fighting. Why is that? Will this be a duel weilding character?
He takes it at Level 12 (ITWF). Dualwielding al the way, with instant capacity to switch to shield for those who like to Quickslot different weapon groups.
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! hopefully this doesnt come off as really stupid. but how would you recommend spreading out the skillset. that is always my problem with builds...not knowing what skills to take on what levels has always bugged me. TIA for any help that can be provided here.
twiztidcabbie
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Come Join Us!! Very cool build as usual, griz. I'm going to try this one out in whatever I decide to play next (open to suggestions for single-player mods or good, medium to low magic PW's). Hats off, sir!
Quote: Posted 08/11/05 17:04:33 (GMT) -- twiztidcabbie

hopefully this doesnt come off as really stupid. but how would you recommend spreading out the skillset. that is always my problem with builds...not knowing what skills to take on what levels has always bugged me. TIA for any help that can be provided here.
twiztidcabbie

Skill Distribution Leveling Guide. I normally don't make these due to the pain-in-the-arse factor. Also because skills are not always deemed necessary due to environments.


1. 40, H=4, MS=4, UMD=4, Tumble=4, Set Traps=4, Disable Traps=4, Open Locks=4, Search=4, Save 8

2. 4, D=5, Save 7
3. 4, D=1, Save 3
4. 4, D=1, Save 3
5. 4, D=1, Save 3 (16 saved)
6. 10, H=5, MS=5, UMD=5, T=5, DT=1, OL=1, S=1,ST=3
7. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
8. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
9. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
10. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
11. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
12. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
13. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
14. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
15. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1(9 saved)
16. 4, D=11, Save 2
17. 6, H=1, MS=2, UMD=1, T=2, ST=1
18. 4, D=2, Save 2
19. 4, D=1, Save 3
20. 4, D=1, Save 3 (8 saved)
21. 6, H=5, MS=4, UMD=5
22. 6, T=5, UMD=1
23. 6, H=2, MS=2, UMD=1,ST=1
24. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=2, ST=1
25. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=2
26. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=2
27. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=2
28. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=2
29. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=2
30. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=2
31. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
32. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
33. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
34. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
35. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
36. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
37. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, ST=1, Save 2
38. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, ST=1, Save 2
39. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, Save 3 (13 Total)
40. 6, H=1, MS=1, Spellcraft=8, ST=1
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! thanx for taking the time to post that for us/me grizz. i'm gonna start this build up tonight on Fabled Glory. I'll let you know how it holds up pre-epic.
twiztidcabbie
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Direct Connect: 61.90.194.238:5121
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Come Join Us!! Nice build Grizz. Another member for the Dwarven Assassins Guild. (Note - we may need to look for additional space soon).

It's interesting how you like to go strength-based for your rogues where most of us think 'dex-based'. And of course you succeed at it.

I like this guy a lot. He starts out as a real scrapper - the fighter levels permit fast access to critical feats: Ambidex, Two Wpn Fighting, Imp. Knockdown, Wpn Spec and he takes Imp. Two Wpn Fighting at 12, so he's effective right from the get-go.

Looks like a fun build to play. Nice job!

Kaliban
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"Where there is life, there is hope." - Grover What a blast this guy is to play. I built him at Lvl 27 and am playing him through Shadows over Heliopolis, and he just rocks. I gave him pretty below-average gear and he's still stompin' through this thing. With stealth, a variety of scrolls, and KD, there's no stopping him!

Just wanted to extend my thanks to you, Grizz Fun, fun!
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Favorite PW's: Hall of the Worlds, Higher Ground, World of Iniquity. any chance of pushing back taking assassin to lvl 10 and still making it work the same?(or lvl 9. its a server requirement on the server I'm on.)
Quote: Posted 08/12/05 12:19 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord
5. 4, D=1, Save 3 (16 saved)
6. 10, H=5, MS=5, UMD=5, T=5, DT=1, OL=1, S=1,ST=3
7. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
8. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
9. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
10. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
11. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
12. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
13. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
14. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1
15. 6, H=1, MS=1, UMD=1, T=1, ST=1, Save 1(9 saved)
16. 4, D=11, Save 2
17. 6, H=1, MS=2, UMD=1, T=2, ST=1
18. 4, D=2, Save 2
19. 4, D=1, Save 3

It shouldnt be too much trouble. Just look at why he did fighter. Yes, it gives feats, but it is ther for skill dumps. So, you could move 2 or 3 fighter to earlier (just make sure your feats work) and keep ONE fighter lvl out at 19 for Discipline dump (just save the skills for it). UNLESS your server has KD immune items that you will be using, then you can drop Dis all together and go 1r/8f/1r/30 assassin.

Just mess around and make it the way you need it.