Playable from level 1 - 40 ..PvM

Yup, I know this build has been done a few times & there's a debate to whether it's better to go with fighter rather than CoT...however I think I've got a fairly unique twist on the build. A fair amount of it can be altered depending on your own particular style of play...

& so without ant further a do, I introduce the Baron

Class : Bard (6)/RDD (20)/CoT (14)
Race : Dwarf
Align : CN (I go for neutral to avoid smite attacks)

Starting Stats (finishing stats):

Str - 15 ( 24 [+ 7] )
Dex - 13 ( 13 [+ 1] )
Con - 18 ( 34 [+12] )
Int - 10 ( 12 [+ 1] )
Wis - 8 ( 8 [- 1] )
Cha - 11 ( 13 [+ 1] )

Levlling up:

1 - 5 Bard ; Toughness, Exotic Weapon Proficiency, lore +8, +1 Con.
6 -13 RDD ; Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Heavy Armour Proficiency, Improved Critical (Bastard Sword), +2 Con.
14-20 CoT ; Power Attack, Cleave, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, +2 Con.
21-22 RDD ; Great Constitution I.
23-29 CoT ; Epic Damage Reduction I/II/III, Great Constitution II/III, +2 Con.
30-39 RDD ; Epic Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), Epic Prowess, Armour Skin, Great Constitution IV/V, +2 Con
& 40 Bard ; +43 Tumble, +43 Use Magic Device, +1 Str.

There will be a few skill points left over to assign as you see fit...I usually put at least one into Open Lock & Disable Trap, with some on Discipline & Spellcraft as well.

Finishing attacks with non-magical bastard sword;

+44/+39/+34/+29
(BAB 33)

Saving Throws;

Fortitude - 41
Reflex - 29
Will - 28

AC - 27 (naked)

Basic Equipment - Full Plate, Tower Shield & Bastard Sword

HP - 900 max...this can be taken to well over 1000 with some decent Constitution boosting items.

Item wish list: Haste item, magical plate/shield/bastard sword, strenght/constitution boosting items, some Summon Monster IX scrolls...oh & a large stack of healing potions!

...& there you go...I hope I haven't misssed anything out! There are a few variations you can go for such as disposing of dodge/mobility/spring attack...exchanging for maybe great cleave (if u want devastating critical), blind fight, called shot...+ you would be able to spend ability points slightly differently...but when fighting those big bad bosses on a Persistent World it can often be useful to leap out of combat avoiding attack to down a heal potion without risk of an opportunistic attack.

This is my first post of an Epic build so I would appreciate any comments people have to make...even if it is to say..."you play with that?!?"
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Grrr...hear my roar!!!

Edited By griphook on 08/20/05 20:05

Just one thing: you took exotic and are a dwarf. What are you thinkin with b sword! LOL a personal prefernce i guess. I just love the 3* multiplier. I'd always hate seein a crit and realizin that i am missin out on damage. But thats just me.

Nice idea. My thought would be "Why so many RDD levels?". I realize you get d12 for HD, a bit better DC on your breath weapon, and a couple more AC. However, you'd probably be better served going with 10 more Bard and dropping 10 RDD. With that, you'd get better Bard Song, even without raising your CHA. If you choose to raise CHA for access to some of the better spells, I'd opt to go to 16 (This will give you access to level 5 spells and the ability to metamagic them into level 6 slots, depending on the magic items you find).

Also, with that last comment in mind, I'd start with 12 DEX and 12 CHA. Dodge and Mobility, while useful to a point, are definitely not 'must have' feats. Spring Attack is rendered completely superfluous once your modified Tumble score is 14+ (something easily achievable with more Bard levels and skill dumping at various advantageous points in the build). This will free up 3 feats (possibly 5, if you drop Power Attack and Cleave, which I'd recommend considering), which could be used to take such things as Still Spell (for casting those nice round-and-turn/level buffs in armor), Knockdown, Improved Knockdown, Curse Song, Lingering Song, and Extra Music (take your picks).

The DR is not a bad idea, but maybe not something that really needs striving for. I'd take those GRT CON feats and use them for GRT STR instead to boost your AB and damage.

And, by the gods, you're a Dwarf with the Exotic feat! For the love of all that's sane and decent, take the Dwarven Waraxe man!

Something else to consider is: only take Tumble to 40 ranks. Your AC boost from the skill is based on your raw, unmodified score (+1 AC for every 5 ranks), so more than 40 ranks is wasted skill points. UMD works on modified ranks and also increases in effectiveness at multiples of 5, so make sure your CHA modifier plus your raw, invested ranks totals a multiple of 5 at the end of the build. Assuming a CHA of 16, this means take UMD to a maximum if 42 ranks.

You should also consider Spellcraft, as that will give you a +1 to your saves vs spells for every 5 modified ranks (it's modified by INT) and it's a class skill for Bards. Other skills to consider are: Discipline, Taunt, as much Perform as your Bard levels require, and possibly Concentration, Heal, and Lore.

My 2 cents.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 08/14/05 23:37:40 (GMT) -- krsboss

Finishing attacks with non-magical bastard sword;

+44/+39/+34/+29
(BAB 33)

How are these numbers calculated?

BAB should be 26 (BAB > 30 is impossible), add WF, EWF, EP and +7 STR modifier and you have attacks of +37/+32/+27/+22 (unless I missed something important).
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Character Build Calculator(works with Excel, Open Office) 2.83: updated to NWN 1.69. I really see no advantage in him being a Dwarf. I would go with Human (as always ;o). And I would start with
16 Strength
8 Dexterity
15 Constitution
14 Intelligence
8
14 Charisma
(*cough* Skillful Minstrel *cough*)
You'd get alot more skill points to play with, which would be good since you're a Bard (even if you don't go with those stats you get points for being Human). And you don't that those huge HP numbers. If you pic one Great Constitution with the above stat spread you end up with 18 Constitution, which should be well enough (520 HP). Then you could substitute all those Damage Reduction and Great Constitution feats to Great Strength and combat feats. And pick Epic Skill Focus to Taunt 8D (obviously you lose Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack with 8 Dexterity)

As was said before, 16 Bard would be better than 20 RDD. A 16th level Bard song nets you 5 AC, 3 Damage, 2 Attack, 3 to Will Saves along with 2 to Reflex and Fortitude plus 4 to Skills. And if you decide to do 16 Bard, fit the Curse and Lingering Song feats there. You should have enough room..


And, um, use Fighter
Quote: Posted 08/15/05 04:58:00 (GMT) -- Kamiryn

Quote: Posted 08/14/05 23:37:40 (GMT) -- krsboss

Finishing attacks with non-magical bastard sword;

+44/+39/+34/+29
(BAB 33)

How are these numbers calculated?

BAB should be 26 (BAB > 30 is impossible), add WF, EWF, EP and +7 STR modifier and you have attacks of +37/+32/+27/+22 (unless I missed something important).

To be honest I don't know how those numbers are calculated! This is taken straight from the character sheet so as to avoid any confusion...maybe the BAB on the sheet inlcudes the +7 strength which would make the 26 u say it should be 33!

with respect to some of the other comments...20 RDD levels not only give you the AC, increased damage/DC from breath weapon but also give you two extra epic feats which you wouldn't get by taking those extra levels as a bard...and of course you could take other feats pre-epic, that's all arbitary...

...and as for not being a dwarf...have you got something against those of diminuative stature! I admit I often used humans for my builds...but soon saw the errors of my ways! Sure that feat at first level can be useful...especially for a weapon master, & the skill points can come in handy...but more recently I find myself using Dwarves & Halflings, something about getting your stats as high as you possibly can...with a starting constitution of 15 you would not be able to get the Epic Damage Reduction feats immediately...

Anyways thanks for all the comments (still aprreciate more!) as i mentioned (or meant to) the build does need a little refinement...but believe it or not it is actually very sucessful...cheers!
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Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Quote: Posted 08/16/05 05:01:33 (GMT) -- krsboss
To be honest I don't know how those numbers are calculated! This is taken straight from the character sheet so as to avoid any confusion...maybe the BAB on the sheet inlcudes the +7 strength which would make the 26 u say it should be 33!

There's actually no way the sheet could have shown you a BAB higher than 30, and STR is not included in BAB. BAB is one of the few things that the character sheet never screws up on. I had assumed you calculated by hand, because 33 is exactly what you get if you don't realize that in epic levels, you only get 1 BAB every 2 levels regardless of your classes. If you ignore that...

20 RDD = 15
6 bard = 4
14 CoT = 14
Total = 33

But, like I said, the character sheet wouldn't make that mistake, at least I've never seen it. Kamiryn's calculations are correct though, just so you know.

Steve Dunno! The character sheer definately said BAB 33 & had all those +44/+41/etc...however it is possible that what character on the sheet had a +7 weapon which may explain a little of the confusion!!!
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Grrr...hear my roar!!! I will clarify this problem for you.

Log on to a module with the character, then you will see the right numbers. When you just look at the numbers when in your character database list, e.g. before choosing a character to play with, the in-game scripting is not added and lots of numbers are wrong. BAB can never ever in any character be higher than 30, so log on to a module and look at the numbers in-game, do not read them from the list. Okay...taken from the ingame stats:

BAB: 26
AB: +34/+29/+24/+19

...this is unarmed so add +3 when using chosen weapon (ie. bastard sword in my case) plus whatever you can get from your wepaon & any strength enhancing equipment...

Everything else is correct, sorry for any confusion!

Naturally the pre-epic feats (pwr attack, cleave, dodge, spring attack & mobility, even exotic weapon proficiency) can all be changed without affecting the overall integrity of the build, you may even consider using medium armour with some decent dexterity boosting items. They are just what I like using...although cleave can be as nearly useless as great cleave in a lot of situations...however the main focus of this build is the post-epic developement with a major focus on hit-points. By taking 2 prestige classes Epic you gain access to three extra Epic feats (which in my opinion are much more powerful that non-epic feats), this allows a major focus onto getting certain statistics as high as possible which IMO attributes=immortality!!! Maybe a few of the great constitutions could be great strengths but +1 to all attacks and damage would cost you 40 hp & +1 fortitude save...it's anyones choice!!!

Oh and another thing...about using a Dwarvern war-axe...is there something screwy with my NWN? I don't seem to be able to use one without taking the proficiency!
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Grrr...hear my roar!!!
Quote: Oh and another thing...about using a Dwarvern war-axe...is there something screwy with my NWN? I don't seem to be able to use one without taking the proficiency!

NwN is based upon the 3.0 version of DnD, and there a Dwarf didn't have waraxe as a martial feat. That's 3.5. But the point is, you take exotic weapon. Use a waraxe instead of the bastard sword.

Edited By Grimnir77 on 08/18/05 02:14

Cool, that's what I thought, Dwarvern Waraxe/Bastard Sword just depends on your own personal preference!

With improved critical (as the build dictates) using a bastard sword you critical on 17-20 so for rolls of 17, 18, 19 & 20 you do x2 damage, translating to a cumulative x8 damage when summed across the range. A dwarvern war-axe criticals on 19 & 20 so across the same range (17-20 attack rolls) you will also do a cumulative x8 damage!

Introducing keen weapons tips the balance in favour of the dwarvern war-axe however...but then against critical immune monsters/characters it doesn't matter at all.

As the build has a fairly low attack bonus it may be better to use a dwarvern war-axe as against monsters/characters with high ACs your only hits will be critical hits...however players with really high ACs are moer than likely to have at least 10 levels of Pale Master making them immune to critical hits!

At the end of the day it is all down to personal preference...and anyway when I look at someones build I do not see it as a definate set of rules that has to be followed precisely, there has to be a certain degree of leeway, someone has an idea & people can follow it how they see fit...some changes may improve, some may take something away from it...and some changes may be so drastic that it makes it into a completely different build altogether!!!
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Grrr...hear my roar!!!

Edited By krsboss on 08/18/05 03:16