As the name implies, he is the void in combat into which the damage flows. He can take the punishment like nobody's business, with permanent 50% concealment and a DR of 15/-. I am sure someone else has made a similar if not better build, but i didn't find something close using pulse's great search engine, so i figured i would post this. obviously, being a melee void, he cannot return very much damage, but with his handaxe of doom and some choice scrolls he should be alright. His high UMD allows him to act as a limited caster, and also allows for melee buffing such as keen edge, gmw and flame weapon. also, this build could be modified to reduce DR by 3, take 4 fighter levels instead of the last 4 DD levels and pick up at least WS. overall just an interesting concept. if the creatures are focusing on this char, then this allows others, with lesser defenses, to deal some damage while the creature(s) in question just get frustrated.
The Melee Void Dwarf Rogue 18, DD 22 playable 1-40, PvMprobably could do PvP
alignment: something lawful
STR 12 DEX 18 to 32 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 6
all points go into dex.
1 )Rogue1 Dodge 2 )Rogue2 3 )Rogue3 Weapon Finesse 4 )Rogue4 (DEX 19) 5 )Rogue5 6 )Rogue6 Toughness 7 )Rogue7 8 )Rogue8 (DEX 20) 9 )Rogue9 Knockdown 10)Rogue10 11)DD1 12)DD2 Weap Foc: Handaxe (DEX 21) 13)DD3 14)DD4 15)DD5 Impr Crit: Handaxe 16)DD6 (DEX 22) 17)DD7 18)DD8 IKD 19)DD9 20)DD10 (DEX 23) 21)Rogue11 Great Dex I (DEX 24) 22)Rogue12 23)DD11 24)DD12 Great Dex II (DEX 26) 25)DD13 26)DD14 EWF 27)DD15 Great Dex III (DEX 27) 28)DD16 (DEX 28) 29)DD17 30)DD18 Epic Prowess, Great Dex IV (DEX 29) 31)DD19 32)Rogue13 SC I (DEX 30) 33)Rogue14 SC II 34)Rogue15 35)Rogue16 SC III 36)Rogue17 SC IV (DEX 31) 37)DD20 38)DD21 39)Rogue18 SC V 40)DD22 Armor Skin (DEX 32)
AB: 27 Base + 11 Dex + 1WF + 2 EWF + 1 EP = 42/37/32/27
Damage: 1d6 + 1 (19-20/x2) + 9d6 Sneak Attack okay, really in need of GMW, Flame Weapon, Keen Edge, and +highest-possible-Strength to boost damage. But not really the point of the build. Nickle and Dime anyone? Sneak attack does help against certain foes. IKD + Sneak Attack + non-crit/sneak immune = julienne enemy. Don't forget that setting traps allows for some variety of gameplay as well as an opportunity to damage foes in another method.
Just a quick sketch. Let me know if all of that makes any sense. Like I said, not that original, but I couldn't find anything like it...odd. I probably should've scanned through the more recent builds first...my apologies to those who went there first w/o naming.
let me know what you think. should i add in fighter for some damage, or is this just not a very survivable build?
-c _________________ "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."
Edited By griphook on 08/27/05 13:06
I like this build quite a bit actually. I was trying to come up with a way to squeeze Epic Dodge into the build, and it is a bit tricky. You could drop 4 DwD levels, take 2 more Rogue levels(one to take Defenise Roll, the other to top out skills), and then take two fighter levels(or two CoT levels) in Epic to make up for the lost DwD bonus feat. You could then grab Epic Dodge, but you would have to stop at SC IV.
The pros of this would be: Epic Dodge, +1d6sneak, 12 more skill points.
The Cons: loss of DR 3/-, loss of 10% Concealment, loss of 20 Hit points.
If you took the 2 fighter levels in Epic, you could use one of the bonus feats to take Epic Toughness so there would be no loss of Hit Points.
It's a tough call, but Epic Dodge really is a great Feat to have in a Dex build, and SC IV is still quite potent. Regardless, it's a solid build. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Do 19rog/2FTR/19DwD and that will give you your E-Dodge and SC V. use the same level up as in the post and then remove 3 DwD lvls in epic lvls for 1 rog and 2 ftr feats. the rogue feat will grant you e-dodge, 2 ftr bonus feats will grant you armor skin and a feat of your choice. _________________ Be realistic...
Do 19rog/2FTR/19DwD and that will give you your E-Dodge and SC V. use the same level up as in the post and then remove 3 DwD lvls in epic lvls for 1 rog and 2 ftr feats. the rogue feat will grant you e-dodge, 2 ftr bonus feats will grant you armor skin and a feat of your choice.
Actually, it won't, as I pointed out above. He is going to need two feats in order to grab Epic Dodge--1 for Def Roll and 1 for Epic Dodge. SC V still has to take a hit. There is no where else for the feats to come from, as eveything prior needs to be a Great Dex. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
A I missed that bit, thx for poiting it out again Grizz =) _________________ Be realistic...
You missed a feat on lvl 10 for the Rogue... I suggest taking Improved Evasion there and get a little false immunity from some spells and traps.
Also this would put you one step closer to getting Epic Dodge if you wanted it.
You missed a feat on lvl 10 for the Rogue... I suggest taking Improved Evasion there and get a little false immunity from some spells and traps.
Also this would put you one step closer to getting Epic Dodge if you wanted it.
He didn't miss it. It's just assumed that Improved Evasion was taken since it is an SC V build. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
You missed a feat on lvl 10 for the Rogue... I suggest taking Improved Evasion there and get a little false immunity from some spells and traps.
Also this would put you one step closer to getting Epic Dodge if you wanted it.
He didn't miss it. It's just assumed that Improved Evasion was taken since it is an SC V build.
Oh... well it's not on there, I'm right as always. The obvious choice is Imp Evasion but it's his build he could have taken it else where. (He could have, don't look at me that way.)
I'd rather have Epic Dodge than SC anyday... one Improved Invis spell or Displacement (which you could use with a scroll) and you have concealment. Nothing can match the effect of Epic Dodge and just being able to escape the first and most dangerous attack is much more of a blessing IMHO.
sorry for the lateness of my reply. after editing this post half a dozen times i gave up, and in doing so i forgot to add in the fact that yes, at rogue level 10 one should take the improved evasion feat. that was a silly mistake on my part, but thanks to our resident rogue/dwarf master to catch that for me. thanks grizz.
i was trying to find a way to squeeze in Epic Dodge, but for the life of me i couldn't do it without dropping SC, which i really wanted to keep (more on principle of seeing whether i could than anything else). grizz's suggestion is very good though, dropping one sc is probably worth it. epic dodge is just one of those feats that helps out alot.
while i agree that Epic dodge is very handy, i don't agree that displacement, improved invis or some other ability like monk's empty body is just as good as SC. in some situations it is, but SC V is undispellable, which is handy against strong mages and certain dragons as well.
Actually i have a question, why would you (i direct this to theshadow0015) rather have epic dodge over SC anyday? is the first attack always the most dangerous? if so, why? I am not being sarcastic, I genuinely want to know if this is the case.
granted, the first blow guaranteed missing is good, but in a longer fight, having EVERY hit a 50% chance of missing, coupled with a high AC and a decent DR makes damaging this char in melee difficult to say the least. well, that is how i saw it. at any rate. feel free to tell me why i am misguided.
also, i thought it might be hard to get SC V and a nice DR together (which i did in testing just by the skin of my teeth), whereas Epic Dodge and DR would have been a heck of a lot easier to manage together. as has been said before, shoving in SC, ED and DR is the tricky part.
thanks for all the comments thus far.
-c _________________ "You cannot pass!"
Edited By christian.schnabel on 08/26/05 23:55
Just to clarify: it's not actually the first attack that's avoided by Epic Dodge, it's the first attack to land that would do damage (which makes Epic Dodge that much better). That's an important distinction, as it could very well be a second, third or later attack in the round that actually hits you (if the first ones miss). _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Actually i have a question, why would you (i direct this to theshadow0015) rather have epic dodge over SC anyday? is the first attack always the most dangerous? if so, why? I am not being sarcastic, I genuinely want to know if this is the case.
-c
I assume he meant that the first attack in a round has the greatest chance of successfully hitting the target.
Kaliban. _________________ Have fun storming the castle!
I guess a way to go would be to do 14DD/26rog. That would give 6 less in damage reduction but you can get Epic Dodge that way. EWF or Epic prowess have to wait until level 40 then. Your HP will also be a lot less this way, that should be taken into consideration as well.
Guess it is a question of taste.
thanks cin for making that clarification on ED. basically, could on say that, as a rule, those with a higher AC benefit more than those with a lower AC from epic dodge, and that SC is more helpful for those with a lower AC? (this seems to be a HIGHLY generalized statement, but perhaps a helpful guideline for those looking to get certain feats)
kaliban, does the first attack have a higher change of hitting due to initiative, or for some other reason. i am just curious about this whole thing, since i don't have a good grasp of the underlying game mechanics.
thanks to everyone again for their help.
-c _________________ "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
kaliban, does the first attack have a higher change of hitting due to initiative, or for some other reason. i am just curious about this whole thing, since i don't have a good grasp of the underlying game mechanics.
thanks to everyone again for their help.
-c
First of all, saying "I don't have a good grasp of the underlying game mechanics" is a trademark-protected disclaimer of mine
It's just the way attacks are created in a round by the game engine - your Attack Bonus is added to your attack role to see if you penetrate the opponent's armor class. Your first attack is your die roll plus your full Attack Bonus. Look at your character sheet and you'll see your AB goes W/X/Y/Z, with W having the highest score, then the subsequent values being 5 less than the preceding value: W, W-5, W-10, W-15. This indicates your first attack in a round is at full AB, and subsequent attacks are each at 5 points less (except for monks who have their own attack table).
There are other factors that can affect this AB sequence - Haste gives another attack at full AB, and the cleric spell Divine Power grants another attack at full AB. So (if I recall Cinnabar's lesson correctly) in theory a buffed and hasted cleric could attack at W, W, W, X, Y: W, W, W, W-5, W-10.
Hope that helps. If I didn't explain that well (or correctly) I'm sure someone with a better grasp of English and the game mechanics can help us out.
Kaliban. _________________ Have fun storming the castle!
Quote: Posted 08/28/05 12:28:08 (GMT) -- Kaliban99 First of all, saying "I don't have a good grasp of the underlying game mechanics" is a trademark-protected disclaimer of mine
Sorry, i will add a little TM after that next time.
Quote: It's just the way attacks are created in a round by the game engine - your Attack Bonus is added to your attack role to see if you penetrate the opponent's armor class. Your first attack is your die roll plus your full Attack Bonus. Look at your character sheet and you'll see your AB goes W/X/Y/Z, with W having the highest score, then the subsequent values being 5 less than the preceding value: W, W-5, W-10, W-15. This indicates your first attack in a round is at full AB, and subsequent attacks are each at 5 points less (except for monks who have their own attack table).
There are other factors that can affect this AB sequence - Haste gives another attack at full AB, and the cleric spell Divine Power grants another attack at full AB. So (if I recall Cinnabar's lesson correctly) in theory a buffed and hasted cleric could attack at W, W, W, X, Y: W, W, W, W-5, W-10.
Hope that helps. If I didn't explain that well (or correctly) I'm sure someone with a better grasp of English and the game mechanics can help us out.
Kaliban.
you know, until you wrote it, i didn't actually THINK about it. that makes perfect sense now. I just never thought of it that way. Of course the first attack is the most dangerous because of the simple fact that it is the one with the best chance of penetrating AC. what am I thinking?
thanks again kaliban, your patience and explanation are greatly appreciated.
-c _________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Edited By christian.schnabel on 08/29/05 03:23
Glad to help (by passing on wisdom I've picked up here).
Kaliban _________________ Have fun storming the castle!
Sorry if this is spam, but another post referred to this build and I had to make a quick comment.
I like this build quite a bit actually. I was trying to come up with a way to squeeze Epic Dodge into the build, and it is a bit tricky. You could drop 4 DwD levels, take 2 more Rogue levels(one to take Defenise Roll, the other to top out skills), and then take two fighter levels(or two CoT levels) in Epic to make up for the lost DwD bonus feat. You could then grab Epic Dodge, but you would have to stop at SC IV.
The pros of this would be: Epic Dodge, +1d6sneak, 12 more skill points.
The Cons: loss of DR 3/-, loss of 10% Concealment, loss of 20 Hit points.
If you took the 2 fighter levels in Epic, you could use one of the bonus feats to take Epic Toughness so there would be no loss of Hit Points.
It's a tough call, but Epic Dodge really is a great Feat to have in a Dex build, and SC IV is still quite potent. Regardless, it's a solid build.
I actually plugged this guy into the CBC character builder, making the adjustments you mentioned here - remove 4 dd levels, adding two CoT and two more rogue to get Epic Dodge at Lvl 28. What's strange about this (other than the build being incredibly tough), is that when I was finished the total HP calculation came out at 476.
Of course, he also gets a slight boost in saves for a final of : 23f/20w/32r. Not too shabby.
Epic Dodge, SC IV, DR 12/-, 31ac naked (and has uncanny dodge and flanking protection so he won't lose his dex bonus), decent hp's, 9d6 sneaks, UMD for buffs, and even though dwarven stance is not always effective, it can be a nice hole card. All this and still maintains a solid AB of 42.
Throw on some monk gear and grab some scrolls and potions and you won't need much else.
I pretty much have to play this guy now
While he's not without weaknesses (20will, for instance), there's not too many other builds that manage to pack in so many powerful defensive abilities. Kudos _________________ Favorite PW's: Hall of the Worlds, Higher Ground, World of Iniquity.
_________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
on my part, but thanks to our resident rogue/dwarf master to catch that for me. thanks grizz. 
Sorry, i will add a little TM after that next time. 
