This character is the strongest build I've made yet, and my main playing character on my PW (Drow Wars). He can basically go where he likes, and fight where he likes.
He was very playable 1-13/14ish and 36-40but quite weak in the middle due to woeful AB. Once he gets his dragon form at lvl 36, he is extremely powerful.
PvM build Race: Dwarf Gender: Male Alignment: Lawful Neutral
1. DRUID - Luck of Heros 2. DRUID 3. DRUID - Dodge 4. DRUID +WIS 5. DRUID 6. DRUID - Toughness 7. DRUID 8. DRUID +WIS 9. DRUID - Extend Spell 10.DRUID 11.DD 12.DD - Zen Archery* +WIS 13.DRUID 14.DRUID 15.DRUID - Improved Critical Unarmed Strike 16.DD +WIS 17.DD 18.DD - Improved Initiative* 19.DD 20.DD +WIS 21.DD - Great Wis I 22.DD 23.DD 24.DD - Great Wis II +WIS 25.DD 26.DD 27.DD - Epic Prowess, Great Wisdom III 28.DD +WIS 29.DD 30.DD - Great Wisdom IV 31.DD - Armour Skin 32.DD +WIS 33.DD - Great Wisdom V 34.DD 35.DD - Energy Resistance* 36.Druid - Dragon Shape +STR 37.Monk (XP Penalty from here) 38.Monk 39.Monk - Great Strength I 40.Monk +STR
Build Comments. - This is the build as I played it on my PW. I took one too many lvl's of Druid pre-epic which cost me +1 AB overall. Otherwise I am happy with it.
Strengths: Damage Reduction up the ying/yang. Good to great AB in dragon form with +12 STR items. (54) 6 Attacks per round 69AC in Dragon Form
Weaknesses: Painful to play in the middle levels Relatively low saves, so weak against dev critters
i would recommend lowering strength and adding those points into intelligence. this would allow you to gain more skillpoints to dump into tumble, discipline (important for a fighter), spellcraft (better saves) and concentration. this build has been done in a very nice way on the epic build page. i am not one to link, but it should be easily found from the guild main page. it is called the dragon savant. while you may want to keep the levels that you have the same, changing some of the stats (upping int for example) and taking some different feats (zen archery to use the high wis). keep in mind that with a build like this, your offensive power is in spells and in shape shifting.
just a suggestion. i just hate to see an intelligence below 10 is all. the extra skill points would do nothing but strength this build, and since the high wis would make sure the offensive spells stick, their should be little problem.
just my two cents (alright, looking above it does seems a bit more like a quarter, but )
-c _________________ "Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things." - Miyamoto Musashi
Hi & thanks for your comments.
The strength is jacked up as high as I could whilst still making the 30 wisdom so that the dragon shape could be as dangerous as possible.
On the PW I play, an AB of 50+ is mandatory for playing with the big bosses. The whole point of this build was to create the strongest melle dragon I possibly could. I'm only using the Druid spells to buff me prior to shifting, I don't use any of the offensive ones.
I have seen the Dragon Savant build, and like it, but wanted a stronger melle presence.
(oh, and I did take Zen Archery Didn't use it much in the end though)
Edited By Dropbear1967 on 08/27/05 02:07
When you shift into Dragon form you always get STR 48 DEX 36 CON 32 (plus any bonuses for buff spells and/or items up to the +12 limit). Your own physical attributes are ignored when shifted into Dragon. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Nup.. your strength bonuses are added to your AB in dragon form definately...
im pretty sure your strength bonuses are added to your AB in dragon form
Someone on the Athas Reborn server reported that the damage reduction on the dragon's hide dosen't actually stack with Dwarven Defender damage reduction. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Someone on the Athas Reborn server reported that the damage reduction on the dragon's hide dosen't actually stack with Dwarven Defender damage reduction. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
I was wondering this, but I know from experience that my Dwarven Defender based Dragon is a HECK of a lot tougher than my Druid/Shifter based Dragon. I'm pretty sure it does stack.
im pretty sure your strength bonuses are added to your AB in dragon form
Pretty certain your STR is ignored when you shift into Dragon form and thats what the Grimoire says too but its been a while since I played a dragon. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
I just did a small test, with and without casting Bull Str before shifting.
Without: AB 52 With: AB 54
shrug..
Thats different As I said you do get the benefit of buffing spells or STR boosting items that merge with your form. However I do not believe your characters own STR carries over into Dragon form. _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Yes, I don't think that test is conclusive. It only proves that Bulls Strength carries over. Test again, only strip him of everything, no buffs, no spells, and shift to see what his Strength is, not AB. It's either going to be 48(or whatever the Dragon number is), or it should be 56, which is what your suggesting it should be since he has a non-shifted strength of 18. If you don't see an increase of 8 points over what a straight dragonform gives you, then Amazonia is correct. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Your STR is set at 48 when you shift to dragon form. Item and spell buffs are counted, but your base STR isn't (as it becomes 48). _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
I just did a small test, with and without casting Bull Str before shifting.
Without: AB 52 With: AB 54 shrug..
Enter debug mode and make the same test using the SetSTR funcion. Base str in standard form does not matter in dragon form.
Edited By pulse cap on 08/27/05 20:44
I surrender
Either way it's a strong build and the extra AB does help a bit with non shifted melle ...
You stated that it has DR up the 'ying yang'. Last I checked DD damage reduction will not stack with other forms of DR, except for the EDR feats. I am not certain you noticed this or not.
/edit- After looking, you will only have your DD damage resist. The dragons 5/+1 will never be higher. _________________ Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need: Click Here
Edited By Emrill on 08/29/05 14:45
last I checked dragons get 40/+6?
-DaMouse
Quote: Posted 08/29/05 14:42:44 (GMT) -- Emrill
You stated that it has DR up the 'ying yang'. Last I checked DD damage reduction will not stack with other forms of DR, except for the EDR feats. I am not certain you noticed this or not.
/edit- After looking, you will only have your DD damage resist. The dragons 5/+1 will never be higher.
Firstly, the dragon form druids and shifters get has 40/+6 DR, not like the weakling dragon you get with the shape change spell. About stacking DR, I'm not sure about the specifics of DDs, but usually you can have two types of DR, x/- and x/+y. These two usually stack. With 22 DD you get 15/-, the dragon shape gives 40/+6. So against any weapon with +5 or lesser enhancement you should get to remove 55 points of damage.
EDIT: Why 4 monk by the way? looks to me like 3 monk would provide the same bonuses. I'd put one more level into druid.
Edited By pulse cap on 08/29/05 14:57
Quote: Firstly, the dragon form druids and shifters get has 40/+6 DR, not like the weakling dragon you get with the shape change spell. About stacking DR, I'm not sure about the specifics of DDs, but usually you can have two types of DR, x/- and x/+y. These two usually stack. With 22 DD you get 15/-, the dragon shape gives 40/+6. So against any weapon with +5 or lesser enhancement you should get to remove 55 points of damage.
They do "stack" since 15/- is Damage :Resistance: and 40/+6 is Damage :Reduction:. Damage Resistance is worked up first, and then if there's any damage left after it's checked against the Reduction, and if there's still damage left it is applied to your character Or so I've understood. eg. Our Dragon here would be hit for say 33 physical damage (+3), which would mean that Damage Resistance (15/-) would soak up 15, leaving 18 damage which would be soaked up by the Damage Reduction (40/+6). However if the weapon was for example +8 our Dragon would lose the 18 HP (if the damage still was 33).
yes, thats the strength of using DD 15 DR against every hit no matter how good the opponents weapon if 2 dragon builds were facing off it would give Dropbears build a definite advantage _________________ Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
I tested out the dd dr vs dragon dr. They do not stack.
so vs a +5 weapon the 40/+6 dragon hide kicks in giving 40 dr. vs a +6 weapon the dd dr will give you 15/-.
if the dragon hide 40/+6 applies, the 15/- will NOT be applied. you never get 55/+6 from them stacking...
Edited By jjjhhhlll on 08/29/05 18:02
Quote: Posted 08/29/05 15:13:55 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ They do "stack" since 15/- is Damage :Resistance: and 40/+6 is Damage :Reduction:.
I thought they were different types of damage reduction and damage resistance was, for example, the 50% that skeletal undead have vs slashing and piercing. There are way too many terms out there.
Damage Reduction: +Y soak X Damage Resistance: Y Resist X/- Damage Immunity: Y Immunity X%
-DaMouse
Quote: Posted 08/29/05 14:42:44 (GMT) -- Emrill
You stated that it has DR up the 'ying yang'...
I have a degree in Kinesiology and an EMT license - I don't think I've yet come across my 'ying yang'!
Kaliban _________________ Have fun storming the castle!
Edited By Kaliban99 on 08/30/05 03:14
The damage reduction fromm DD, Barbarian, EDR and from an item, f.ex. greater archers belt, all stack. If you have a 25% dam immunity, that is applied first, making it truly magnificent. But, and this is a really big but ,If you also have 40/+6 as in Dragon shape, the immunity(25%) is applied first then the best of the other two. Not both.
I play a Dragon/DD on my PW, and both PvM and PvP it is truly good. Especially since most monsters and players have better than +6 weapons at that level.
)
Didn't use it much in the end though)
Damage Reduction: +Y soak X
,If you also have 40/+6 as in Dragon shape, the immunity(25%) is applied first then the best of the other two. Not both.