The basic premise behind this build is to make a spellsword using the Harper Scout class. I couldn't find a similar build, so at least this one is original, if not interesting. Also, as an interesting side effect, this build gets three sets of spells to use, which is handy when resting is restricted or when a little more power is needed. Also, due to leveling carefully, there is no XP penalty, although this forces us to wait until very late in the build to get any tumble, but such is the price paid for getting tumble to 40 instead of 20. Should be alright without tumble anyways.

Harper Spellsword
Paladin 17, Sorcerer 18, Harper Scout 5

playable 1 to 40, PvM

(Human)
alignment: lawful good

STR 14 to 26
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA 14 to 20

all points go into Strength.

1 )Paladin1 Power Attack, Weap Foc: Scimitar
2 )Paladin2
3 )Paladin3 Divine Power
4 )Paladin4
5 )Sorcerer1
6 )Sorcerer2 Still Spell
7 )Paladin5
8 )Sorcerer3
9 )Paladin6 Divine Shield
10)Paladin7
11)Paladin8
12)Paladin9 Impr Crit: Scimitar
13)Paladin10
14)Paladin11
15)Sorcerer4 Iron Will
16)Paladin12
17)Paladin13
18)Paladin14 Alertness
19)Paladin15
20)Paladin16
21)Sorcerer5 Great Cha I
22)Sorcerer6
23)Sorcerer7
24)Sorcerer8 Great Cha II
25)Sorcerer9
26)Sorcerer10
27)Sorcerer11 Great Cha III
28)Sorcerer12
29)Sorcerer13
30)Sorcerer14 Great Cha IV
31)Sorcerer15
32)HS1 Great Cha V
33)HS2 EWF: Scimitar
34)HS3
35)HS4
36)Sorcerer16 Great Str I
37)Sorcerer17
38)HS5 Great Cha VI
39)Sorcerer18 Great Str II
40)Paladin17


Skills:
Concentration 43
Discipline 43
Spellcraft 38 (40 with INT)
Tumble 40
Lore 6
Persuade 8
Search 4 (8 cross-classed)
Taunt 39 (44 with CHA)

AB: 39/34/29/24
seems a little low, but with the suggested spells below, this can be increased to around mid to low 40's. and those enhancements should stack with +whatever weapons. also don't forget taunt, which should help out a bit as well.

Damage: 1-6 + 8 (15-20/x2)
This can easily be boosted with paladin and sorcerer spells/abilities. also keen edge gives a great crit range, which helps alot.

AC: naked is 17, in full plate with a tower shield its 28. when buffed with HS Cat's Grace (with a little luck) hits 30.

Saves:
Fort 28(36)
Refl 20(28)
Will 28(36)(+2 from Llira's Heart), Immune to Fear

Saves aren't too bad, considering no plan was made to increase them. With a few Cha enhancing spells (HS Eagles, Pally's Eagles, Pally's Aura of Glory for a min of +8 to CHA and a max of +14 to CHA) and/or equipment (which also boosts AC and damage from Divine Might/Shield) this becomes very acceptable for a spellsword.

max HP: 170 + 72 + 30 + 80 = 352
this is pretty low for a melee char, but with spells this shouldn't be a problem.

key spells:
harper scout:
cat's grace, eagle's splendour

paladin:
deafening clang, bless, prayer, bull's strength, eagle's splendour, aura of glory, holy sword

sorcerer:
9th level verbal only spell (time stop is nice), damage reduction spells like premonition, Bibgy's spells (w/o saves only), Acid sheath & Death Armor & Elemental shield (to preserve HPs or to inflict damage), flame weapon, keen edge, endurance, true strike, endure elements, lesser mind blank, offensive spells without saves

keep in mind, that this char also gets to use divine might and shield, when buffed, for at least 9 rounds duration, adding the hard to resist 9 divine damage and 9 divine AC.

All in all, i was happy with this build, but i am sure that others can find much better ways of using what i have laid out here. let me know what you all think.

also i should mention that there are a few abilities with may come in handy throughout playing, such as smite evil, remove disease, lay on hands, turn undead, summon familiar (i choose pixie to help with traps and such), HS invisibility, Craft Harper Item, Tymora's Smile (helps when you must walk through a trap or something similar).

-c
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"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."

Edited By griphook on 08/31/05 18:46

very innovative and I think interesting
its a pity its so tight for feats
there are things it would be nice to have like Auto-Still I-III and Armour Skin but I can't see a way to get them w/o dropping the 2 GRT STR and 2 of the GRT CHA feats and reallocating ability increases from STR to CHA and ending up 4 STR lower
not sure if its worth doing that
the Harper Scout Cat's Grace can be stacked with 1 from sorcerer so you'll be able to get DEX to 12 with no problem
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Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Quote: (HS Eagles, Pally's Eagles, Pally's Aura of Glory for a min of +8 to CHA and a max of +14 to CHA)
I would like to see you get +14 to a stat

But without the nit-picking, it looks like a great build to me. Nice going
Quote: Posted 08/30/05 16:26:04 (GMT) -- FinneousPJ

Quote: (HS Eagles, Pally's Eagles, Pally's Aura of Glory for a min of +8 to CHA and a max of +14 to CHA)
I would like to see you get +14 to a stat

Yeah, just so you know, stat boosts from items/magic are capped at +12. It's impossible to go above that.

But yes, interesting build. To be honest, I'm still partial to having RDD as the third class, but of course, the whole point was to use Harper Scout so you couldn't really do that, .

Steve

Edited By Stravinsky00 on 08/30/05 16:50

Christian, nice concept. Looks similar to one I was working on a while back, but never finished. Anyway, just a minor point about the XP penalty issue: your build is Human. Harper Scout is a prestige class. Therefore, you've no worries about XP penalties. You can take HS much earlier if you want.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! D'oh! I should have known that number looked wrong. *cough* +12 cap is still in effect then, is it? *cough*

if i take HS any earlier than when paladin and sorc are 1 level apart or less, wouldn't that mean that i get an XP penalty? wouldn't it stay in effect until paladin and sorcerer are within 1 level of one another? either that, or don't grasp this XP penalty thing very well, which becomes increasingly more possible the longer i rant here...

i was considering skipping HS for RDD, but then level numbers and order would be different. really a totally different build altogether. and it has been done by many others better i, in ways better than i could. i just try to be different...not better, unfortunately, just different.

i would love to cram in a few feats, like toughness, and auto still spell I and II (i think III could be done without in this build), but alas, no bonus feats. dropping strength or cha would pretty much break the build, i'm afraid.

just as a note, i know that HS spells stack, so in the case of cat's grace, if you find that you can add it to the limited selection of sorc spells than do so, but i chose not to so that i could take another spell at that level. but of course, spells are up to the player, making cats grace a good choice to guarantee enough dex for full plate, up to enough for hide armor with two good rolls. then drop a shield, accept spell failure and tada.

thanks for all the input thus far. any more would be helpful.

-c
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"You cannot pass!"
Quote: Posted 08/30/05 17:30:21 (GMT) -- christian.schnabel
if i take HS any earlier than when paladin and sorc are 1 level apart or less, wouldn't that mean that i get an XP penalty? wouldn't it stay in effect until paladin and sorcerer are within 1 level of one another? either that, or don't grasp this XP penalty thing very well, which becomes increasingly more possible the longer i rant here...

Prestige classes don't count toward XP penalties. It's actually impossible for a human to have an XP penalty unless you have 3 base classes. Basically, look at all your classes, cross out the prestige classes, then cross out the favored classes (or, for humans and half-elves, the class with the most levels at the time), and just look at what's left over to determine if you have an XP penalty. In this build, which I assume is human, you would cross out harper scout (prestige class) and whichever of your other classes is higher at the time, leaving you with only one class to consider. So, no XP penalty ever.

Quote: i was considering skipping HS for RDD, but then level numbers and order would be different. really a totally different build altogether. and it has been done by many others better i, in ways better than i could. i just try to be different...not better, unfortunately, just different.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting you actually switch to RDD, as this build was clearly designed to be an alternative to the "classic" pal/sorc/RDD build.

Edited By Stravinsky00 on 08/30/05 18:33

You only get an XP penalty if you have 2 or more core classes that are more than 1 level apart. Prestige classes don't count at all when calculating XP penalties, and your race's favored class is also not considered.

A Human character's favored class is whichever has the most levels. In your build, you wouldn't even consider the HS class, as it's a prestige class and your highest levelled class wouldn't count (Pally or SOR, whichever had the most levels), so there's no way for you to possibly get a penalty with this build, no matter how you levelled it.

This would allow you to take HS at level 22 if you wanted, which gives you the opportunity to max Tumble 10 levels sooner. (You could also take HS pre-epic, but it would mean you'd have to use the bonus feat for Favored Enemy instead of GRT CHA, so not a good option).
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! ah, so... *a gong sounds, and he is enlightened*

thanks to stravinsky and cinnabar for their help with this build. i figured that when you took the prestige class as a human (which i should have mentioned) that it was your faovred class...did they fix that bug, or am i just way off...again.

well then, taking HS earlier seems like a very good idea. i would stick to level 21, but it seems much more feasible.

thanks again!

-c
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"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."
Quote: Posted 08/30/05 19:04:08 (GMT) -- christian.schnabel

ah, so... *a gong sounds, and he is enlightened*

thanks to stravinsky and cinnabar for their help with this build. i figured that when you took the prestige class as a human (which i should have mentioned) that it was your faovred class...did they fix that bug, or am i just way off...again.

It's been fixed. But even then, it only kicked in if your prestige class had more levels than any other class in the build.

Quote: well then, taking HS earlier seems like a very good idea. i would stick to level 21, but it seems much more feasible.

thanks again!

-c

Take it at level 22. That way when you max Tumble, you'll get to put it at 25 ranks for a smooth +5 to AC.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! I agree with you that lowering CHA would break the build but I'm not convinced lowering STR would.
If you lowered STR by 4 in the way I suggested you'd lose 2 AB and 2 damage but gain 4 feats at Epic levels.
Between divine might and sorcerous buffs you get pretty high damage anyway so that just leaves AB to worry about. Take Epic Prowess and thats only a loss of 1 AB leaving you 3 feats to use for Armour Skin, Auto-Still or Toughness as you prefer.
With buffs you can still boost your AB to a respectable level. Just my two cents
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Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Quote: Posted 08/30/05 20:53:06 (GMT) -- Amazon Queen

I agree with you that lowering CHA would break the build but I'm not convinced lowering STR would.
If you lowered STR by 4 in the way I suggested you'd lose 2 AB and 2 damage but gain 4 feats at Epic levels.
Between divine might and sorcerous buffs you get pretty high damage anyway so that just leaves AB to worry about. Take Epic Prowess and thats only a loss of 1 AB leaving you 3 feats to use for Armour Skin, Auto-Still or Toughness as you prefer.
With buffs you can still boost your AB to a respectable level. Just my two cents

Use one of the feats for Epic Weapon Focus instead of Epic Prowess and you've got your AB back again.
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It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! epic weapon focus is already in the build, under HS level 2.

-c
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"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger."

Edited By christian.schnabel on 08/31/05 03:28

Casting arcane spells in armour came up in NWN General Discussion
I think I was forgetting how many useful spells that have only a Verbal component. Between them and casting your long duration buffs before putting your armour on you're probably right that Auto-Still isn't needed
I'd still argue for dropping 2 GRT STR for Epic Prowess and Armour Skin
1 less damage for +2 AC seems like a good trade to me
I'll shut up about this now
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Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette. i agree with you, ama, that would be a good exchange. some more AC is nice, but then again, with a variety of spells focusing on damage reduction and magical damage shields, its not that necessary. but i think that, given adding epic prowess would maintain the AB, i think this is a good idea. +1 damage will not be missed.

thanks for the suggestion!

-c I agree its not a massive difference, the build looks strong on both AC and damage, but I think worthwhile

(I succeeded on my Persuade check, does a little dance )
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Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.