Just a fun little character idea I thought I'd post here. I see a tendency for WM builds to have relatively low HPs for a melee character. This is an attempt to solve that 'problem, while still maintaining a decent AB. The addition of Bard in the build gets a few more skill points and access to a wider skill set. Anyway, here's the Dwarven Hammersong:
**As an option, you could dump the DR feats, taking Armor Skin and 2 Epic Toughness feats. This would give you a maximum of 648 HPs and 32 AC with mundane gear, although, I'd probably opt to drop 2 or all 4 ability increases from CON and add them to STR if I went without the DR feats.
He's a little starved for skill points, but that's what the DR and higher HPs costs. I think I've squeezed the most out of what he gets, but they could certainly be adjusted to taste.
He also is rather feat starved due to the WM requirements, so he doesn't have the nifty KD line of feats. Lamentable.
If Extra Music doesn't apeal to you, by all means switch it out for something else (Toughness, Knockdown, etc.) You could also drop Iron Will to pick up the Imp KD feat if you desire. I like the boost to the Will save, though.
A few points:
I realize he'd get more skill points if he takes Bard at level 1, but then he'd have to set his CHA at 11. I didn't want to be forced into that situation because I was going for the DR feats and didn't want to gimp STR or CON.
I know some may be thinking that Rogue would be a better choice (and it probably is). While Rogue would grant more skill points and some sneak attack (as well as Evasion), Bard gives you Spellcraft, and some Bard Song, and I just wanted to use Bard...
Lack of the Bard spells is lamentabe, but there's just no way to work the CHA high enough for them without really sacrficing big in other areas.
His AB is decent and his AC is pretty good as well, but he's by no means 'uber'. Should be fun to play, though.
*edit* This is one of the few builds I've posted that I've not built in a trainer (didn't get around to it), so it's only been worked out on paper. If you find any problems with the numbers I've reported or the levelling, feats taken, etc., let me know. Thanks. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By griphook on 08/30/05 18:55
nice build. this WM could definately take a beating. but the lack of skillpoints is lamentable. especially when you have all those great bard skills to use. i think that i would drop CON a bit to start, and pump int a bit. then forget DR, raise CON some more to boost HP, and then you can take advantage of spellcraft more properly. losing DR would allow for the Epic toughness feats and HP would be fairly similar.
the way i see it, if you can't boost spellcraft to 30+, what was the point of taking bard over rogue. cross-classing and using rogue to get more skillpoints would get you a 20, which is only one less boost to saving throws versus spells, as well as giving you more skillpoints to add into a wider variety of skills. some might say po-tay-to, po-tah-to, but i say be quite and eat your supper!
also, with your stats, perform drops to 13, giving you only a level 6 bard song, not a level 8, and UMD drops to 14, giving you the equivalent of 10 in UMD. those are kinda hard to justify putting points into that far and not going a bit farther. again, a little more INT would help a lot.
whether all this is worth losing DR, that only you can tell.
personally, i would rather take lingering song for the extra time duration than extra music. singing more often is annoying, especially when the benefits are rather small.
lack of bard spells is nothing to worry about, since bards (even w/o UMD) can cast arcane spells off of scrolls. that should take care of buffing nicely.
despite everything that i have said, i really like this build, i just miss the skills. i love playing skillfull characters, so that is just my personal beef. if you like the DR, then i would stay with what you have here. this WM is really strong, but personally the above are some changes which i would consider if i were playing this char. i feel it would make the char stronger on the whole.
-c _________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.
Good points. I missed the hit to the Perform skill. Have to adjust your Perform for that one. The UMD was left where it is on purpose. With a level 8 Bard Song, you get +1 to your skills, which would pump the UMD up to an adjusted value of 15.
One option with respect to Spellcraft is to drop the UMD altogether and boost Spellcraft to 39.
I wanted to post this build with the DR option, but I like skills as well (it's one reason I love Bards, as they get an awesome skill set). Perhaps later, if I have time, I'll post a version with no DR feats, and more skill points. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Okay, here's a version without the DR feats:
FTR 10/WM 22/Bard 8
Dwarf, any non-Lawful
STR 16 (28) DEX 14 CON 16 (20) INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 6
1 )FTR1: Dodge/ Weapon Focus:Warhammer 2 )Bard1 3 )FTR2: Mobility/ Expertise 4 )FTR3: STR (17) 5 )FTR4: Weapon Specialization:Warhammer 6 )FTR5: Spring Attack 7 )Bard2 8 )FTR6: Whirlwind Attack/ STR (18) 9 )WM1: Iron Will 10)WM2 11)WM3 12)Bard3: Extra Music or Lingering Song or Knockdown/ STR (19) 13)WM4 14)WM5 15)WM6: Improved Crit:Warhammer 16)WM7: STR (20) 17)FTR7 18)Bard4: Blind Fight 19)FTR8 20)FTR9: CON (17)
21)FTR10: Epic Wpn Focus:Warhammer/ Epic Wpn Spec:Warhammer 22)Bard5 23)WM8 24)WM9: GRT CON I (18)/ CON (19) 25)WM10 26)WM11 27)Bard6: GRT CON I (20) 28)WM12: STR (21) 29)WM13: Epic Prowess 30)WM14: GRT STR I (22) 31)WM15 32)Bard7: STR (23) 33)WM16: GRT STR II (24)/ Armor Skin 34)WM17 35)WM18 36)WM19: GRT STR III (25)/ Epic Toughness I/ STR (26) 37)Bard8 38)WM20 39)WM21: GRT STR IV (27) 40)WM22: Epic Toughness II/ STR (28)
This actually is a better version. Perhaps I'll post it as the finalized build and get Griphook to lock this thread. Hmmm, have to think about it. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 08/30/05 19:35
I know that Bard can take tumble to a "5" at level 2, but I'd switch your first level to bard for the extra skill points. You can take dodge and mobility at first level.
Quote: Posted 08/31/05 15:53:56 (GMT) -- Ithacan
I know that Bard can take tumble to a "5" at level 2, but I'd switch your first level to bard for the extra skill points. You can take dodge and mobility at first level.
Remember, doing so would force him to put 5 points into Charisma-- not a direction he wants to take.
Awesome build, by the way, Cin. I like the version with the DR feats. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 08/31/05 15:53:56 (GMT) -- Ithacan
I know that Bard can take tumble to a "5" at level 2, but I'd switch your first level to bard for the extra skill points. You can take dodge and mobility at first level.
No can do. The game would force me to set CHA at 11 minimum, which would require 5 allocation points. I didn't want to gimp the other stats. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Thanks Grizz. Yeah, for some reason I'm partial to the DR build as well, even though I think it's probably not as good as the alternate build I posted. What I do like about both builds is a WM that actually has good HPs. Surprisingly, not a common sight. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 08/31/05 16:05:09 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Thanks Grizz. Yeah, for some reason I'm partial to the DR build as well, even though I think it's probably not as good as the alternate build I posted. What I do like about both builds is a WM that actually has good HPs. Surprisingly, not a common sight.
Since he has a 47AB naturally, it seemed easy enough in the initial build to just drop 2 great strength feats for Armor Skin and Toughness.
OR, to start with a 15Str, plug points back into Int, and then drop only one Great Str for either Armor Skin or Toughness. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
but the lack of skillpoints is lamentable. especially when you have all those great bard skills to use.
