Well I don't know if anyone has been crazy enough to try a build like this before...but here we go! The basic premise behind this build was to have a character with awesome damage reduction, epic dodge & perfect health for thrown in good measure! Now this does put a horrendous strain on the feats & ability bonuses so leaves him a little underpowered in certain areas but I would certainly appreciate any ways of improving the build without sacrificing the above three goals...

In fact a quick search using the Pulse Cap search engine does give a build with the same class levels but that is sooo completely different...

So I hope you've all got you're seatbelts on and get ready for the wild ride!!!

PLEASE NOTE: you would be absolutely crazy to play this from level 1 all the way up to 40, however I'm gonna have to give it a go!!!

Classes:

Fighter - 8
Rogue - 14
Dwarven Defender - 18

Race - Dwarf (duh)
Alignment - Any Lawful (LE would go with the dodgy part tho!)

Starting Stats (finishing stats) :

Str-8 (8)
Dex-17 (26)
Con-19 (26)
Int-12 (12)
Wis-8 (8)
Cha-6 (6)

Levelling Up:

1-10 Rogue - Weapon Finesse, Dodge, Toughness, Weapon Focus (Handaxe), Improved Evasion, +2 Dex

11-20 Dwarven Defender - Great Fortitude, Improved Critical, Blind Fight*, +2 Dex, +1 Con

21-28 Fighter - Great Constitution I/II/III, Epic Weapon Focus (Handaxe), Epic Damage Reduction I/II, Weapon Specialisation (Handaxe), Epic Weapon Specialisation (Handaxe), +1 Con, +1 Dex

29-36 Dwarven Defender - Great Constitution IV/V, Epic Damage Reduction III, Great Dexterity I, Perfect Health, +2 Dex

37-40 Rogue - Improved Evasion, Epic Dodge, +40 Tumble (at level 37)

Well I hope that's possible to follow! I don't like those really long lists that go into way too much detail! Where possible I have listed the feats in order they should be taken!

This leaves u with 191 skill points to spend as you see fit, I usually max tumble and UMD with the rest going on whatever is best suited to the world I am playing in (set trap, open lock, pick pocket...etc...)

Finishing Attack Bonus (with non-magical handaxe)

+38/+33/+28/+23 (hope this is correct, taken from the CBC252 excel spreadsheet...27 BAB, +8 dex, +3 wf/ewf so should be!!!)

Saving Throws:

Fortitude : 30
Reflex : 19
Will : 28

Hit Points : 740 (maxed )

Damage Reduction : 21/-

Immunities : Poison & Disease

AC : 18 (pretty shabby really, with tower shield would be better!)

So there we go...I hope I haven't scared anyone with the build! I would really appreciate some ways of improving it before I go and give it a run out...really don't want to sacrifice the perfect health tho as I am tired of getting poisoned!!!

.... .... ....

griphook ,, corrected typo's
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!!

Edited By griphook on 09/02/05 18:26

Quote: Posted 09/01/05 08:37:21 (GMT) -- krsboss
AC : 18 (pretty shabby really, with tower shield would be better!)

You're either ignoring tumble or your dex bonus. The naked AC for this build should be 26, not 18.

Steve ...I knew I would forget something!
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!! Krsboss,

You've picked some fun classes to mix. Nice DR and HP.

Quote: Posted 09/01/05 08:37:21 (GMT) -- krsboss

Well I hope that's possible to follow! I don't like those really long lists that go into way too much detail! Where possible I have listed the feats in order they should be taken!

The nice things about "those really long lists that go into way too much detail" is that 1. They enable other people to emulate your build, and 2. They're accurate....

You indicate Weapon Finesse is the first feat this character takes but it can't be taken until 3rd level in your build.

You have Improved Evasion listed twice.


Maybe you could fit in Epic Prowess to boost your offence.

Have you built this character offline in a leveling module? I'd advise you do that to confirm the build before you commit to it.

Nice build idea.
Kaliban

PS - It's spelled Dwarven Defender, not Dwarvern Deffender
_________________
Have fun storming the castle!

Edited By Kaliban99 on 09/01/05 13:10

just a side note, after a quick glance. defender is spelt with one f. not to nitpick, but it just caught my eye. and it doesn't seem to be a typo, since it is the same spelling many times over. sorry, just being silly about it.

-c If Dodge and Weapon Finesse were swopped around and that 2nd Improved Evasion was actually Defensive Roll it should work. I think I'd give him Set Traps as that would give him a way besides UMD to damage Sneak immune foes but he looks quite playable 1-40.
Why Perfect Health though? That and Planar Turning are far too difficult to get for the benefit they give.
_________________
Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette. I like this combination.

Not a big thing I suppose, but have you considered going R8/F4/DD8 pre-epic to get the weapon spec. earlier and a slightly better BAB to help in the leveling. Also, Have you considered R13/F5/DD 22. You can still probably manage your epic dodge requirements and epic weapon spec with an additional DD bonus feat/Damage reduction I think. Just an idea.



Drallimer

P.S. On a side note, the long list level by level are easier to read I find.

Edited By Drallimer on 09/01/05 21:14

Quote: Posted 09/01/05 08:37:21 (GMT) -- krsboss

So there we go...I hope I haven't scared anyone with the build! I would really appreciate some ways of improving it before I go and give it a run out...really don't want to sacrifice the perfect health tho as I am tired of getting poisoned!!!

I know you've stated a couple times you don't want to sacrifice Perfect Health, but I'd advise you to do so. The reason is you don't get it until level 36 of your build anyway and the cost is terribly steep for the little benefit it actually bestows. How many times do you think you'll be poisoned or diseased before then? And what would you do about it then? I'd suggest dropping a few skill points into the Heal skill and use healing kits to cure the disease/poison. This could free up some points to shift from CON to DEX to get your AB and AC up. Just a thought.
_________________
It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!! Okay, I guess lists may be a little less confusing and anyway I rambled on so long anway that a list may not have taken up that much more space

So in list form:

1 - Rogue - Dodge
2 - Rogue -
3 - Rogue - Weapon Finesse
4 - Rogue - +1 Dex
5 - Rogue -
6 - Rogue - Toughness
7 - Rogue -
8 - Rogue - +1 Dex
9 - Rogue - Weapon Focus (Handaxe)
10 - Rogue - Improved Evasion
11 - Dwarven Defender -
12 - Dwarven Defender - Great Fortitude, +1 Dex
13 - Dwarven Defender -
14 - Dwarven Defender -
15 - Dwarven Defender - Improved Critical (Handaxe)
16 - Dwarven Defender - +1 Dex
17 - Dwarven Defender -
18 - Dwarven Defender - Blind Fight*
19 - Dwarven Defender -
20 - Dwarven Defender - +1 Con
21 - Fighter - Great Constitution I, Epic Weapon Focus (Handaxe)
22 - Fighter - Epic Damage Reduction I
23 - Fighter -
24 - Fighter - Great Constitution II, Weapon Specialisation (Handaxe), +1 Con
25 - Fighter -
26 - Fighter - Epic Weapon Specialisation (Handaxe)
27 - Fighter - Great Constitution III
28 - Fighter - Epic Damage Reduction II, +1 Dex
29 - Dwarven Defender -
30 - Dwarven Defender - Great Constitution IV
31 - Dwarven Defender -
32 - Dwarven Defender - Epic Damage Reduction III, +1 Dex
33 - Dwarven Defender - Great Constitution V
34 - Dwarven Defender -
35 - Dwarven Defender -
36 - Dwarven Defender - Great Dexterity I, Perfect Health, +1 Dex
37 - Rogue - +40 Tumble
38 - Rogue -
39 - Rogue - Improved Evasion, Epic Dodge
40 - Rogue - +1 Dex

*this feat is not essential to the build so can be changed...

Attacks : +38/+33/+28/+23

Saving Throws:

Fortitude : 30
Reflex : 19
Will : 28

Hit Points : 740 (maxed)

Damage Reduction : 21/-

Immunities : Poison & Disease

AC : 26

This leaves 191 skill points to be spent before lvl 40, I suggest some UMD, general thief skills(set/disable trap, open lock/seach, pick pocket & move silent/hide) & discipline, maybe some spot/listen as well...but it all really depends on where you are going to be playing!

I hope that is clearer! (and devoid of mistakes...including spelling errors )

I went for 10 levels of fighter in the epic levels to get the bonus feats as epic feats. Taking 4 Fighter levels pre-epic would mean losing 2 bouns epic feats...personally i think the epic feats are a lot more powerful

NOTE : I'll try to put my builds in list format in the future ...and spell Defender correctly!!! It's just so difficult to make sure everything is correct, I suppose printing off the levelling instructions then following it precisely may be an idea!

.... .... .... ....

griphook ..Corrected (Spelling) AGAIN
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!!

Edited By griphook on 09/02/05 18:30

Nice format, much easier to read. I'd really like to see you put the class level in too though Makes it very easy to ready and follow.

For example:
1 Rogue 1 Dodge
2 Rogue 2
3 Fighter 1 - Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus

Really quick (between conference calls!):
You've got Improved evasion listed twice again.
Why not take two fighter levels pre-epic (say at level 3 and 4) and take Knockdown, Imp. Knockdown? Very valuable to a Sneak Attacking Rogue.
Taking Rogue 9 and 10 pre-epic loses you AB doesn't it? If I'm correct, that's more reason to take Fighter 1 and 2.
I don't understand the need for Perfect Health (as stated in other posts).

Kaliban
_________________
This space for rent I like the class combo. I don't think I've seen to many rogue DD builds. Only thing I see isn't really a build issue, but a preference thing, and that is why hand axe? Was it to keep in RP theme? If so a battle axe would suit just as well and put out more damage. Otherwise maybe a warhammer or something if you want to go with a shield, or even look into good old standbye great swords. Anyways like I said it's a preference thing.
_________________
Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need:
Click Here
Quote: Posted 09/02/05 16:31:06 (GMT) -- Emrill
why hand axe? Was it to keep in RP theme? If so a battle axe would suit just as well and put out more damage. Otherwise maybe a warhammer or something if you want to go with a shield, or even look into good old standbye great swords. Anyways like I said it's a preference thing.

Dex build. Weapon needs to be finessable. Dwarves like axes. x3 crits. No need for exotic prof.

Makes sense to me. And since he's taking 10 levels of rogue, he has to use simple weapons unless he wants to burn a feat on Wpn Proficiency: Martial.

Of course, he could follow my advice and take Fighter levels and get Martial Weapons for free

Kaliban

PS - Krsboss, you've still got "Dwarven" spelled wrong.
_________________
This space for rent He gets martial weapons from Dwarven Defender anyway which is good since handaxes are a martial weapon (something which has always confused me since apart from a club handaxe is about as simple as a weapon can get IMO)
_________________
Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Quote: Posted 09/02/05 17:56:19 (GMT) -- Amazon Queen

He gets martial weapons from Dwarven Defender anyway which is good since handaxes are a martial weapon (something which has always confused me since apart from a club handaxe is about as simple as a weapon can get IMO)

Yes, if he wants to wait until level 11 to focus in a martial weapon then he may, but he's stuck with simple or rogue weapons before then.

And per the Grimoire, the Hand Axe is available as a Rogue weapon, as well as under Martial Weapons.

Kaliban.
_________________
This space for rent didn't notice that about handaxe being a rogue weapon also
still I think for this build we are talking about using finessable weapons which, apart from kukris, will all be available from rogue or simple weapons
_________________
Teaching men a lesson in combat etiquette.
Quote: Posted 09/02/05 15:10:51 (GMT) -- Kaliban99

Nice format, much easier to read. I'd really like to see you put the class level in too though Makes it very easy to ready and follow.

For example:
1 Rogue 1 Dodge
2 Rogue 2
3 Fighter 1 - Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus

Really quick (between conference calls!):
You've got Improved evasion listed twice again.
Why not take two fighter levels pre-epic (say at level 3 and 4) and take Knockdown, Imp. Knockdown? Very valuable to a Sneak Attacking Rogue.
Taking Rogue 9 and 10 pre-epic loses you AB doesn't it? If I'm correct, that's more reason to take Fighter 1 and 2.
I don't understand the need for Perfect Health (as stated in other posts).

Kaliban

OMG *bangs head against the wall* don't know what's wrong...that second Improved Evasion should be a Deffensive roll...but it is a good feat...could be worth taking twice
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!! Ok, I can understand the finesse point, but why not use short sword then? Is this designed around an RP theme for dwarves? If so I can also understand that weapon choice. I did a DD build where I picked hand axe solely for rp reasons.
_________________
Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need:
Click Here
Quote: Posted 09/06/05 17:10:56 (GMT) -- Emrill

Ok, I can understand the finesse point, but why not use short sword then? Is this designed around an RP theme for dwarves? If so I can also understand that weapon choice. I did a DD build where I picked hand axe solely for rp reasons.

Handaxe is the only finesseable weapon with a x3 critical multiplier. It's nice for dual-wielding dex based weapon masters for example. But for this build, crits aren't honestly important one way or another, as sneak damage isn't multiplied in a critical. I don't think either short sword or handaxe would really make much difference. But his AB probably isn't going to allow for much of a crit range to be useful anyway, so perhaps going for high multiplier (handaxe) over high range (short sword) would be better.

Steve I understand potential reasons. I am asking krsboss for his reason.
_________________
Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need:
Click Here Well at the end of the day the finesseable weapon doesn't really matter, short-sword/handaxe...rapier could have been an even better choice with the higher critical range...

I guess the reason is part role-playing (Dwarves - axe), part to be a little different I never really ever see anyone running around with a handaxe...tho this stocky little dwarf with a huge tower shield and a tiny axe looks pretty silly indeed!!!
_________________
Grrr...hear my roar!!! Hehe nah I would say it would be normal for a dwarf.
_________________
Come visit the Epic Builders Guild for all the character info you could ever want or need:
Click Here