The is the first build I'll post since I got accepted into the guild. I had a brainwave sometime after reading this forums when christian.schnabel asked for an anti-assassin build. I know he wanted melee but here I present a wisdom-based monk-archer, which I hope is close enough since it's use pointy arrows to nuke the assassins and not primarily magic . I think this build will do fairly decently against mages too.
WARNING: it's a very munchkinist build which utilises a lot of skill-point dumping. I don't actually have time to play any games this year so I haven't participated on any servers but I imagine it'll do well... Done with the character build calculator.
Race: Elf Alignment: Lawful Neutral or Good Playable from level 1 - 40 Pvm or PvP better suited to PvM
Pros: -Great saving throws - even better against spells (the monk legacy) -AArcher AB - AKA in the 50s and has Truestrike -Monk speed 130% -Improved Evasion -Keen Senses by being an Elf -Access to those buffing level 2 Wiz spells -Can get AC bonuses from both WIS and DEX
Cons: -Low HP - you might do well against spells with a save but those without... -Not particularly high STR so he can only use up to +6 mighty on bows with +12 enchantment to STR >.< -Totally hopeless without a bow (hence Epic Skill Focus: Discipline). May your god save you if you get disarmed... -Doesn't get Uncanny Dodge and if that WIS bonus to AC is dodge (not sure), you might just be screwed if caught flat-footed -Spells won't last very long, easily dispelled -No UMD but you have access to monk items and scrolls which should suffice
Look for: a decent bow, definitely WIS and DEX boosting items and possibly CON, Haste and AC stuff, possily a helm which will add even more to you Listen and Spot skills (kinda went overboard there) if you're really obsessed with seeing those sneaky Rogues especially if there's plenty of + to Hide and Move silently items around. AND if possible, befriend an epic bard who you can play with
Not even an AA can get part epic warding DR (Wouldn't you call that just a sickeningly overpowered spell? Not to mention maximized IGMS). I think you could get to 69 Listen and Spot modified if you wanna sacrifice +1 to you saving throws to spells and generally the excellent saving throws and pick up Alertness and the two normal Skill Focus feats. You may also want to consider dumping 2 more points into CON from your normal stat gains because that HP is very low...
So how's my first posted build?
Edited By griphook on 09/25/05 16:54
Argh can't edit anymore but that Epic Weapon Focus: Lonwbow was taken as an AA bonus feat (the Char Build Calculator said I could) but I'm not entirely sure if that's legal.
Quote: Posted 09/13/05 11:08:29 (GMT) -- Jennalee
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WARNING: it's a very munchkinist build which utilises a lot of skill-point dumping.
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Listen: 42(63) Spot: 42(63)
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-Totally hopeless without a bow (hence Epic Skill Focus: Discipline). May your god save you if you get disarmed... -Doesn't get Uncanny Dodge and if that WIS bonus to AC is dodge (not sure), you might just be screwed if caught flat-footed
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So how's my first posted build?
first off, congrats on your first build.
second, don't worry about skill point dumping. while a few ppl may consider that unfair, most of those ppl aren't here. seriously, where would most, if not all, of the builds posted here be without skill point dumping? probably not here, because they wouldn't be maxed as much as they could be.
third, nice listen and spot. don't forget that you can use scrolls of clairaudiance/clairvoyance to boost these numbers easily into the 70's. add in equipment and stealthers will be hard to miss!
fourth, if the enemy is getting close, drop some darkness, grease, web and whatever area scrolls/spells you have, retreat, and they continue hammering. with some tactics, they should never get near enough to try a disarm. also, unless they knock you down, or sneak up on you, they won't catch you flat-footed. with such a good spot and listen, coupled with the tactics above, there shouldn't be too much to worry about.
nicely done.
-c _________________ Et Earello Endorenna utulien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Quote: Posted 09/13/05 12:08:21 (GMT) -- Jennalee
Argh can't edit anymore but that Epic Weapon Focus: Lonwbow was taken as an AA bonus feat (the Char Build Calculator said I could) but I'm not entirely sure if that's legal.
It is legal. AAs can get those weapon feats like epic weapon focus and epic prowess as bonus feats.
Steve
Thanks guys Glad you liked it.
I just checked the Epic AA Bonus Feats list and found that you could also take Epic Reflexes. That means you could drop two Great DEX and pick up Epic Reflexes and Epic Prowess as AA Bonus feats and one Great DEX to round up DEX to 14. That frees up one general feat slot which could be used for Armor Skin which I neglected or also drop Epic Skill Focus: Discipline which you suggested was unecessary and use the two feat slots for Great Wisdom.
With Armor Skin, Epic Prowess and only one Great DEX, he'll have one more AB and 2 more naked AC for 54 AB with a bow and 33 naked AC but one less Reflex save (now 29) and one less skill-modifier on DEX-based skills (Tumble).
With 2 more Great Wisdoms and that Epic Prowess, he'll end up with 55 AB with a bow, 32 naked AC (one less than above) and also a Reflex Save of 29. He'll gain another +1 natural modifier to his Wisdom-based Skills (Listen, Spot and Heal) but you'll lose that +10 skill modifier to Discipline. Maybe it's worth it - if they're close enough to disarm you or you're stunned, you're probably dead anyway. You might also wanna consider 2 more ability points into CON if you want to try this tweak for 40 more HP and one more fort save instead.
Also, I'm concerned about using Blind Fight. I've read somewhere that it doesn't work for ranged attacks. It's mainly there to cut the advantage of having SC. It'll be a pain if that doesn't work (and IMO unfair)
Edited By Jennalee on 09/13/05 23:17
Quote: Also, I'm concerned about using Blind Fight. I've read somewhere that it doesn't work for ranged attacks. It's mainly there to cut the advantage of having SC. It'll be a pain if that doesn't work (and IMO unfair)
you can always run-shoot and laugh at the sc rogues _________________ People with no lives try to live others.
I am currently playing a close build to this. Took only 1 wiz level. I am currently at 23 (10 monk, 1 Wiz, 12 AA) and having great fun. The run and shoot offense is the key, so tight spots provide some challenges. A good tank in front makes this build a breeze to play. Good luck.
Oh, forgot to ask: Why take both spot and listen? Don't both accomplish the same?
In my build, I decided to max listen and save points for other things. I found that when I play rogues/assasins, I sometimes quit dumping into MS to save points for other things relying on my hide skill. I have since discovered many others I know do this as well. That gives the max listener an advantage.
Oh, forgot to ask: Why take both spot and listen? Don't both accomplish the same?
I suppose if she has the points to burn, why not use both? It forces to checks instead of one.
Quote: I found that when I play rogues/assasins, I sometimes quit dumping into MS to save points for other things relying on my hide skill. I have since discovered many others I know do this as well. That gives the max listener an advantage.
I definitely don't do this. In fact, I will always take skill foci and Epic Skill Foci in Move Silently over Hide, just because I know that many players pick Listen over Spot. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
I definitely don't do this. In fact, I will always take skill foci and Epic Skill Foci in Move Silently over Hide, just because I know that many players pick Listen over Spot.
Hey, don't tell on us! Seriously tho, I find that listen is a skill for more classes than spot. I'm not sure about that, but I THINK so.
Well, Griz, not all are as clever as you. =;) Those sneaky types seem to focus on the hide in HIPS. At least in my experience.
HiPS is sooo abusable because Spot/Listen checks only happen once per round IIRC (patch this already!) and HiPS can be activated many times per round. Yes, there were plenty of points to go around - one point left over after skill allocation which is why it's in tumble lol). There's actually people looking at this build now (yay!)
Thing is though, why would you really bother taking Hide/MS if you don't have sneak/death attack nor HiPS? Is there really that much point to sneaking around when you don't get extra damage and can run fast anyhow?
Edited By Jennalee on 09/21/05 13:50
Quote: Posted 09/21/05 13:46:36 (GMT) -- Jennalee
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Thing is though, why would you really bother taking Hide/MS if you don't have sneak/death attack nor HiPS? Is there really that much point to sneaking around when you don't get extra damage and can run fast anyhow?
you can strategically attack and disappear. for an archer, this is very helpful, since whenever enemies close, you vanish, sneak away to a suitable distance, and start firing away all over again. sort of like a retreat and shoot tactic, but allows for better movement in a small area.
but obviously HiPS is very useful for sneak attackers.
-c _________________ "Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things." - Miyamoto Musashi
Quote: Posted 09/21/05 13:46:36 (GMT) -- Jennalee
HiPS is sooo abusable because Spot/Listen checks only happen once per round IIRC (patch this already!) and HiPS can be activated many times per round.
While this is typically true for ranged HiPSters, it's been my experience melee HiPSters have to disengage from combat in order to activate the feat. I'm sure there are clever endarounds to this, too, but none of my HiPSters are ever able to exploit that feature unless they are ranged. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 09/21/05 14:19:20 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord ...none of my HiPSters are ever able to exploit that feature unless they are ranged.
You hit S (one of the default movement keys if you're not using the mouse to play) to move you character backwards which should disengage them then HiPS. It might not happen instantaneously but I suppose if you have good initiative, it'll work well.
You can also quickslot your Stealth and Attack commands. (I've done this, putting them into the F1 and F2 slots), then just hit your Attack command and your Stealth command in quick succession. Once you get the timing right, you pop out of combat, HiPS, then attack and rarely ever do your opponents strike back. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Just curious, just reading this at work. But how much damage does this build do?
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Member of the Epic Character Builders Guild
Mundane longbow, mundane arrows: 1d8 +14 (Crit. 19-20/x3).
I can post a more refined, AB/AC focussed version if you'd like (or you can ask someone else to). It's my first build here _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
Nah you dont have to, but I was looking for an Archer with decent saves and who uses Zen Archery (+ monk) for nice AC.
I'm going to use this on my Battle of the Dragons server, since the ac there will be easily 50+ and the AB will be insane. The spellcasters will have a hard time catching me also
So I'm very pleased with this build, will give more feedback after playing the build later today.
// Maniac_Mailman _________________ "Omnes morimur et quasi aqua dilabimur in terram, qua non revertuntur..." - Maniac_Mailman aka Nr|Five
Member of the Epic Character Builders Guild
Character worked amazing... it was hard to touch with either spells or melee.
Two "annoying" things I have to figure out are:
- How to battle sneaks when you are pre-epic (those suckers get such a bonus pre-epic, but once I've reached Post Epic I have AC high enough to battle them)
- Damage is a bit low, but once you have the cash for arrows + bow, you can survive. (on my server everyone walks around with a greater archer belt, giving 10 piercing resistance)
But I really love your build, I will be playing this one a lot
Many thanks my friend.
// Maniac_Mailman
Edited By Maniac_Mailman on 11/15/05 13:48
Generally speaking, arcane archers tend to do poorly at pre-epic levels when compared to 20+ where archers starts to shine (or it could be just me). My best suggestion is to forget about this unless you play in a server which goes to level 30-40, otherwise a better way to fight sneakers imo would be to make a sneaker yourself, or a pm, or a bard with listen + amplify for the +20 mod. Probably other effective builds to use at lower levels, but those ones should do alright.
As for listen vs spot, listen seems to be better at catching the sneakers, but unlike spot it does not protect against going flat-footed. Sucks if you're getting HiPS'ed. It only gets one roll a round, whereas spot on an Elf works with keen senses as per description. Or so some veterans in two different forums say... never actually ran a test myself to find out.
. I think this build will do fairly decently against mages too.
Glad you liked it.
Just curious, just reading this at work. But how much damage does this build do?