This is my first post here. I have been browsing the forums for some time looking for ideas though. I have never played a character past level 30 so I dont know how good this character is in those levels but in the OC and HotU I found him to be very good. The inspriation comes from this build, very similar but a different list of feats and race. Click Here Anyway on to the build Playable from level 1 - 40 PvM at least tested to 30
Human, TN
Stats:
STR 16 (36) DEX 12 CON 12 (14) INT 14 (16) WIS 10 CHA 12 (14) Skills: Discipline, Spellcraft, Tumble, UMD to max 10 ranks in perform minimum 8 in lore. I had ranks in heal, persuade and search also.
1) BARD Armor prof heavy/ weapon prof martial 2) BARD 3) BARD Weapon focus scimitar 4) PM STR +1 5) PM 8 ranks in lore 6) RDD Power attack 7) RDD 8 )RDD STR+1 9) RDD Cleave 10)RDD 11)RDD 12)RDD Imp crit scimitar STR +1 13)RDD 14)RDD 15)RDD Knockdown, pump search to a decent level 16)PM STR+1 17)BARD TUMBLE, UMD, DISCIPLINE 20 RANKS PERFORM 10 18)PM Great Cleve 19)PM 20)PM STR+1 21)PM Overwhelming crit scimitar 22)PM 23)PM 24)PM Dev crit scimitar STR+1 25)PM 26)PM 27)BARD Epic weapon focus scimitar 30 ranks in the skills 28)PM PM epic feat... any resistance but not fire, I chose sonic STR+1 29)PM 30)PM Armor skin 31)PM Epic spell Epic mage armor spellcraft must be 26+ 32)PM STR+1 33)PM Epic Prowess 34)PM Epic spell Epic Warding spellcraft 34+ 35)PM 36)PM Great Str I / STR+1 37)PM 38)PM 39)PM Great Str II 40)BARD STR+1 max UMD, DISC, TUMBLE (40), SPELLCRAFT (40)
Final Skills (modified):
Discipline: 43 (56) Heal: 20 Lore: 28 (37) Perform: 10 (12 needed for bardsong level 6) Persuade: 27 (29) Search: 10 (13) Spellcraft: 40 (43) Tumble: 40 (23 good ac bonus and no AO) UMD: 43 (45)
BAB: 23 naked AC 39 ~300 HP, I had 308 AB with a non magical scimitar 40/35/30 (41/36/31 with bard song) Damage 1-6 +13 +2 from bardsong AC in full plate and tower shield 50 (71 with mage armour and epic mage armour) Saves (bardsong) Fort:25 (26) Ref:20 (21) Will:26 (27)
I found that with this character the AC stayed almost out of reach for the monsters all the way while my attacks were good enough. UMD adds variety to the class. My favourite class so far. Only downside is I wanted Improved knockdown but it didn't happen.
Edited By griphook on 09/15/05 13:26
For your first build this is extremely good. The only down side is that you cant expand on the PM as good as a wizard can. But you get all the benefits anyway making him a versatile fighter. However I would consider moving the levels around of the PM and adding them to bard so you get more spell casting ability, a better bardsong and more out of you combination of classes. Also you could take curse song and put skills into concentration (which has a double effect) if you decided to do this.
For example 17 bard, 10 RDD, 13 PM. This takes the most out of the bard and PM. But you lose 3 feats. However you gain the equivalent with the bard levels. Also more skills can be taken.
Yeah I thought about taking more bard levels. Would be a more flexible character. Trouble is casting in armour. Bard song may perhaps give the character the same effective AC as the plalemaster levels in the end. When I played HotU I used scrolls as there were plenty. What do you mean concetration skill has double effect? I also thought about not taking armour prof heavy and use medium armour, not a great loss and then take imp knockdown instead. I guess still spell feat is an option also and skip knockdown altogether perhaps. You are correct I think. The level split you mention is probably a better one. I lose epic warding which of course can be good but this character doesn't get hit very often anyway. Will try that now! Thanks
Edited By Bruce Lee 72 on 09/18/05 14:14
Quote: Posted 09/18/05 14:00:59 (GMT) -- Bruce Lee 72 What do you mean concetration skill has double effect?
Concentration is used both for enabling you to cast spells without getting interrupted and also to resist taunting which can reduce your AC.
Steve
Bruce,
I like this blend. Ihave a Bard 5/RDD 10/PM 10 build which I like better than the Pale Drake build. If you're interested, I'll post it for comparison.
Jehoshua, you don't need to quote the entire post when your's is the first reply - we all know what build you're referring to
Kaliban. _________________ This space for rent
Yeah sure I am interested, always looking for improvements!
Quote: Posted 09/18/05 19:56:17 (GMT) -- Kaliban99 Jehoshua, you don't need to quote the entire post when your's is the first reply - we all know what build you're referring to Kaliban.
Yeah I know but I was getting lost in what I wanted to say so it was easier to quote the whole thing and then reply my post.
Interesting build, and well done. Your saves vs spells are +8 on top of the Bard Song boost as well (due to Spellcraft bonus), so you've got a good batch of saves going there too. If you pop 1 more point into it, your boosted Spellcraft will be 45 (you get +1 to skills from your Bard Song) for a further +1 to the saves vs spells.
One thing I'll point out: a modified Tumble of 14+ will negate AoOs from moving in combat only. You still generate them from other activites (depending on your game settings) like firing a ranged weapon in melee, drinking a potion, reading a scroll, etc. Tumble doesn't help against those AoOs. Just thought I'd mention it, as many people are under the impression that high Tumble ranks stop all of those AoOs.
Nicely done. Kudos. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Good point about the boosted skills and spellcraft! How does the spellcraft bonus work really? Is it ranks or ranks plus modiefiers?
Quote: Posted 09/18/05 22:13:22 (GMT) -- Bruce Lee 72
Good point about the boosted skills and spellcraft! How does the spellcraft bonus work really? Is it ranks or ranks plus modiefiers?
It's base ranks for Tumble and the AC boost.
It's modified ranks for Spellcraft and the saves vs spells. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Okay so skill bonus from bard song can really also boost saves vs spells. Good to know. How about cursed song, can the penalty to skills worsen tumble ac bonus on enemies? Saves bonus from spellcraft must be worsened by curse song right?
Quote: Posted 09/18/05 20:23:03 (GMT) -- Bruce Lee 72
Yeah sure I am interested, always looking for improvements!
Here it is. It's an old build of mine (Dev. Crit. tells you that) so should generate some discussion:
Classes: Bard 5/PM 25/RDD 10 Race: Human Alignment: Non-Good
AC 39 HP 402 BA 23 AB: 39/34/29 Saves: Fort 26/Reflex 20/Will 25 Skills: Max Spell, Tumble, UMD, Disc, Persuade 10, Appraise 20, Lore 20 + 20 points _________________ This space for rent
heheh a little input that build is much better for pvp then it is pvm, i have made that before for pvm and pvp and pvp is nicer.
Nice! One less bard level gives you one more epic spell I see. I picked a bard level in the late 20's because I played through HotU and wanted to max skills there, for level 40 yours is better I think. I guess my song is better but no big difference. Anyway why would this build be better for PvP. MOnsters can generally never hit an AC like this.
Quote: Posted 09/18/05 23:30:30 (GMT) -- Bruce Lee 72
Okay so skill bonus from bard song can really also boost saves vs spells. Good to know. How about cursed song, can the penalty to skills worsen tumble ac bonus on enemies? Saves bonus from spellcraft must be worsened by curse song right?
Spellcraft yes, but as was stated, the tumble AC is based only on your ranks in the skill, not your final skill check. That's why armored characters can still get 4AC for 20 ranks in tumble even with the heavy penalties from their armor.
Steve
How do you build these on a high magic server without Dev Crit? Also, why did you take Epic Resistance: Lightning and why 14 int if you aren't going to bother getting imp ex? I mean, surely you can get all that you need without 14 int? Just take all these points out of the crap skills like persuade..
How do you build these on a high magic server without Dev Crit? Also, why did you take Epic Resistance: Lightning and why 14 int if you aren't going to bother getting imp ex? I mean, surely you can get all that you need without 14 int? Just take all these points out of the crap skills like persuade..
For my build? Well, many servers either have disabled Dev Crit or make mobs immune to it, so I feel there is little value in it. The last PWs I was playing didn't incorporate Dev. Crit. so my builds these days don't have it.
I took ER: Lighting probably because at that point there weren't more attractive PM Bonus Feats from which to choose.
And why Int 14/16? Well, I like Skills, and the Bard has many available to him/her. In hindsight, today I might build this character with only a 12 Intelligence to start.
Why do you call for Imp. Expertise? This character has mediocre AB to start with and excellent natural AC -- why would I choose to reduce my AB by 10 just to boost my AC? If this were a two-handed wielder or a dual-wielder I could perhaps see value in Imp. Expertise, but since this build is a sword & board character, I see little use in taking Expertise and Improved Expertise.
As for your remark "Just take all these points out of the crap skills like persuade." you're narrowing your viewpoint and not considering that on some PWs, 'soft' skills are critical to a character's success and development. At the time I built this character, the PW I played on practically required high levels in those skills to 1. reach the merchants, and 2. make any money from looted gear so I could buy better gear and healing pots.
Thanks for the questions. Kaliban. _________________ This space for rent
Thanks So you are saying that its not even worth building if Dev Crit is disabled? There aren't any good feats to replace it with or something?
How do you build these on a high magic server without Dev Crit? Also, why did you take Epic Resistance: Lightning and why 14 int if you aren't going to bother getting imp ex? I mean, surely you can get all that you need without 14 int? Just take all these points out of the crap skills like persuade..
The Epic Energy Resistance is taken at PM level 13 as the PM bonus feat. There is no other feat available. You can opt for Lightning, Acid, Fire, Sonic, Cold, or Electrical. Choose your poison. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
One last thing: Is there any difference between taking a Katana and a Bastard Sword? They seem to do the same thing, except that bastard swords look cooler.
Edit: Also just noticed the one Kaliban posted gets only 37 strength instead of 38... Tried building it.
Quote: Posted 09/22/05 05:23:03 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
How do you build these on a high magic server without Dev Crit? Also, why did you take Epic Resistance: Lightning and why 14 int if you aren't going to bother getting imp ex? I mean, surely you can get all that you need without 14 int? Just take all these points out of the crap skills like persuade..
The Epic Energy Resistance is taken at PM level 13 as the PM bonus feat. There is no other feat available. You can opt for Lightning, Acid, Fire, Sonic, Cold, or Electrical. Choose your poison.
Normaly I would say Fire protection, but since this is a lvl 10 RDD build, I'd say go with Acid.
Edit: Also just noticed the one Kaliban posted gets only 37 strength instead of 38... Tried building it.
Methinks you're correct - I just reviewed my character sheet. One could drop Armor Skin at level 30 and take a Great Strength there. Else drop one of the Great Strengths, pick a different feat, and end up at Strength 36.
Quote: Posted 10/08/05 21:15:28 (GMT) -- Bromium
Normaly I would say Fire protection, but since this is a lvl 10 RDD build, I'd say go with Acid.
Most common PvP weapon buffs:
Flame Weapon, Dark Fire
Defence:
Acid Sheath.
Great idea. Sounds like a much better choice than mine.
Kaliban. _________________ What I'm reading now: The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer.
Yeah I know but I was getting lost in what I wanted to say so it was easier to quote the whole thing and then reply my post.
Interesting build, and well done. Your saves vs spells are +8 on top of the Bard Song boost as well (due to Spellcraft bonus), so you've got a good batch of saves going there too. If you pop 1 more point into it, your boosted Spellcraft will be 45 (you get +1 to skills from your Bard Song) for a further +1 to the saves vs spells.
Good point about the boosted skills and spellcraft!
So you are saying that its not even worth building if Dev Crit is disabled? There aren't any good feats to replace it with or something?
Edit: Also just noticed the one Kaliban posted gets only 37 strength instead of 38... Tried building it.