01: Fighter(1): Snake Blood, Luck of Heros, Weapon Focus: Greatsword 02: Fighter(2): Power Attack 03: Fighter(3): Cleave 04: Fighter(4): STR+1, Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, (STR=19) 05: Fighter(5) 06: Bard(1): Lingering Song 07: Red Dragon Disciple(1) 08: Red Dragon Disciple(2): STR+1, (STR=22) 09: Red Dragon Disciple(3): Blind Fight 10: Red Dragon Disciple(4): (STR=24) 11: Red Dragon Disciple(5) 12: Red Dragon Disciple(6): STR+1, Iron Will, (STR=25) 13: Red Dragon Disciple(7): (CON=14) 14: Red Dragon Disciple(8) 15: Fighter(6): Lightning Reflexes, Improved Critical: Greatsword 16: Fighter(7): STR+1, (STR=26) 17: Fighter(8): Knockdown 18: Fighter(9): Toughness 19: Fighter(10): Great Cleave 20: Fighter(11): STR+1, (STR=27) 21: Fighter(12): Overwhelming Critical: Greatsword, Devastating Critical: Greatsword 22: Fighter(13) 23: Fighter(14): Epic Weapon Focus: Greatsword 24: Red Dragon Disciple(9): STR+1, Great Strength I, (STR=29), (INT=12) 25: Red Dragon Disciple(10): RDD: (Darkvision), (STR=33), (CHA=14) 26: Fighter(15) 27: Fighter(16): Great Strength II, Epic Weapon Specialization: Greatsword, (STR=34) 28: Fighter(17): STR+1, (STR=35) 29: Fighter(18): Armor Skin 30: Fighter(19): Great Strength III, (STR=36) 31: Fighter(20): Epic Prowess 32: Bard(2): STR+1, (STR=37) 33: Bard(3): Great Strength IV, (STR=38) 34: Bard(4) 35: Bard(5) 36: Bard(6): STR+1, Great Strength V, (STR=40) 37: Bard(7) 38: Bard(8) 39: Bard(9): Great Strength VI, (STR=41) 40: Bard(10): STR+1, (STR=42)
In short:
- nice AB - fantastic damages - great dev. critical DC - "not so low for a fighter" saves - early acces to Dev critical - useable bard song & spells - ok AC - ok HP
Now, criticism time!
aquamoeba
Edited By griphook on 09/16/05 20:40
I am wondering if you could get an even higher AB if you took more than 10 ftr lvls pre-epic? THe thing that would do is nerf the epic skills you took, so its a toss-up.
THough, as you mention, surprising that it hasnt been done before (im sure i did one, musta forgot to post it ) Nicely done.
Peace
Take 2 more FTR levels and only 8 Bard. There's no gain in Bard Song from level 8 Bard until level 11. Taking FTR levels instead will get you another epic feat and lose you 4 skill points.
I realize you'd also lose access to level 4 Bard spells (Imp Invis), but with only 14 CHA, you'd need to rely on boosting CHA with items to 18 to get those spells anyway. Something to consider, anyway.
Also, I'd look at mixing those Bard levels in the epic progression into levels 22, 27, 32, and 37 in order to keep Tumble (and Spellcraft) topped at regular intervals. It would help with your AC (and saves vs spells) and possibly make it a bit more playable. _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
I made a similar build to this but with a 1/2-Orc, a bit harder to level but a nice end result. Instead of fighter the progression I used was Bard5/RDD10/Bard6/CoT15/Bard3/CoT1. Already I see I could've used Cinnabar's suggestion of getting bard at specific levels to max tumble, but that's how I leveled him at the time. End stats for mine were as follows(some is memory, so don't be mad if it's wrong): Str44, Dex12, Con10, Int6, Wis8, Cha15 AC:29Mundane(41Buffed) HP:~340 AB:45/40/35Mundane(55/50/45Buffed) Dmg:2-12+25Mundane(28Buffed) 17-20 Crit, 15-20keen, DevCrit DC at 47(49Buffed) Saves:28,29,21(29,31,32Buffed)<-Not bad for fighter class Lower AC and HP and slightly lower AB, but he gets 1 5th level spell(DR and 25%miss ) and has almost 30 all saves, and as I said more difficult to level. Nice build aquamoeba.
10 + 20 + 16 = 46 _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Thx a lot for your feedback!
I was indeed very surprised to not find a similar build since it is a pretty obvious concept:
Me want crush you ---> need strenght ---> a lot of strenght ---> more strenght
To gain +1 AB I would have to take 4 more Fighter lvl pre-epic, wich means 2 more pre-epic feats (which is good), 2 less epic (which is very bad ), but more importantly delay the last RDD lvl. Which means later access to epic feats.
@Cin, true I don't get any other song advantages, but as you already said, I gain a potential access to lvl 4 spells, 1 more lvl 3 casting and known spell, and more important 2 more song per day.
At first I did chose to take 2 more fighter lvl but looking at the epic bonus feat list, the only ones I had access to were "epic thougness" and "superior initiative", not so sexy imo.
Spreading the bard lvl is a very good option, but it will delay the epic bonus feats, personnal preferences, I guess. But in all cases, I wouldn't do it pre-epic (less AB) or before taking the last RDD lvl (since the point of the build is max STR ).
But we could take the pre-epic bard lvl at charac lvl 9(in place of 6) to have 10 ranks in Tumble and Spellcraft and still being able to take "lingering song". Thinking of it, it would be a better option
As for the Half-Orc/ CoT build, I tried it first (starting with 20 STR, is obviously appealing for this build ), but it means you don't get (epic) weap. spec., you don't speak very well (and I really hate that ), you don't get many skill points, and you lose 4 pre-epic feats.
It is a lot to gain 2 STR and a nice saves boost (and you notice that the Fighter build get "not so bad" saves).
Thanx for your interest aquamoeba
Edited By aquamoeba on 09/16/05 10:08
I did find something similar but it used CoT, not fighter.
Click Here
Well indeed both build share the love of STR!
But looking more deeply, these builds have some slight differences:
- one hand weapon = -8 damage/hit (probably due to only having acces to simple weapons) - no epic weap spec = -6 damage/hit (so damage difference = 1d6+16 vs 2d6+30) - great bard song (mainly for the +5AC) - great curse song - a lot more spell powers - a lot better saves - ...
So the basic strategies are the same with the differences that the CoT version has a full bard power (spells and songs) and great saves and the Great Wyrm is more focused on damages and dealing them (better BAB/Blind Fight) and doing it early (Dev Crit at lvl21 vs 28).
So all in all it might be differents flavours aquamoeba
)
) Nicely done.
I made a similar build to this but with a 1/2-Orc, a bit harder to level but a nice end result. Instead of fighter the progression I used was Bard5/RDD10/Bard6/CoT15/Bard3/CoT1. Already I see I could've used Cinnabar's suggestion of getting bard at specific levels to max tumble, but that's how I leveled him at the time. End stats for mine were as follows(some is memory, so don't be mad if it's wrong):
) and has almost 30 all saves, and as I said more difficult to level. Nice build aquamoeba. 