Playable from 1 to 40 in PvE. Stands out best in a high-magic environment.
Taking a page out of my Big Book of Monk Builds I was going to post something that I'd thought was a little different when I made it, but that there's a similar build for already: Monk of the Defense Order by Kamiryn.
There are sufficient differences that I'll post this anyway
Ending Vitals: 32 dex 392 max hp, 340-360 average +40 AB unarmed (BAB 25) 32 naked AC Fort 23, Reflex 36, Will 23
This is a build I developed when I decided to merge my love of monks with my determination to do things with Harper Scout that are actually useful.
FAQ
Q: What are the advantages/disadvantages of this build vs Monk 20/Rogue 19/SD 1? A: The two builds are very similar in practice. Both will have epic dodge, 10d6 sneak attacks, similar AC and AB, and 50% concealment capability.
This build's advantages compared to the other are that SC 5 is on all the time, while empty body isn't, that harper scout provides a number of situational saving throw bonuses and abilities to increase saves even more when needed, and that harper scouts can self-buff with cat's grace.
The two biggest disadvantages are the lack of HIPS, which is an extremely powerful ability, and the fact that it doesn't get the level 20 monk's immunity to mind-effective spells.
Personally I have to say that I think the 20 monk/19 rogue/1 SD is the superior build unless you can get items that make you immune to mind spells, or are in an environment where you need 50% conceal all the time in epic-level combat.
Q: So why do you say this build is best for high magic environments? A: Because powerful magic items cover up this build's relative weakness (lack of mind spell immunity) and mitigate against the strengths of other dex-monk builds (such as HIPS). This is because you can get items to give you spell immunities on high-magic worlds, and on high magic worlds true seeing is much more common. High magic worlds also serve to make this build more attractive because the people and enemies on them tend to have higher ABs, favoring SC 5's "always on" protection over empty body's limited duration, limited uses protection.
Q: Could I actually take a favored enemy with my harper feats? A: I think so, but you'd lose epic prowess in the mix, weakening your build overall. You'd have a bonus against your favored enemy - but lose the same AB bonus vs everything else.
Q: Uh, I can't think of anything else to ask. Is there anything about this build that isn't obvious? A: Probably not. I see it mainly as a variant on the dex monk character that hasn't been too done to death and provides a roleplaying opportunity for people who want to take harper scout, or as a way for people whose servers bar them from taking 1 SD level for HIPS to have a character with similar performance. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Q: Uh, I can't think of anything else to ask. Is there anything about this build that isn't obvious? A: Probably not. I see it mainly as a variant on the dex monk character that hasn't been too done to death and provides a roleplaying opportunity for people who want to take harper scout, or as a way for people whose servers bar them from taking 1 SD level for HIPS to have a character with similar performance.
My first thought was "Why Monk 16/Rogue 19/HS 5 instead of Monk 16/Rogue 19/SD 5?"
5 levels of SD gives you HIPS and Defensive Roll (saving a Rogue bonus feat) while HS gives you two Great Dex feats. Would you take the feat Alertness if you weren't going for HS? If not, then you could take Mobility to qualify for SD.
Thoughts?
Kaliban _________________ This space for rent
Edited By Kaliban99 on 09/29/05 15:55
The great dex feats are important for getting dex to 30 in time to get SC 5. You need at least one "extra" great dex feat from somewhere in the build in order to have both epic weapon focus and SC 5 without having to change race and/or starting stats to start with 19 or 20 dex. You need another "extra" great dex to fit epic prowess.
I don't think great dex is in the rogue bonus feat list when taking rogue levels (it's not in the rogue epic bonus feat list, anyway, and I'm already using my rogue bonus feats to get the SC feats), but I knew I could get two from harper scout. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Xylo: nifty. Nice to see someone else using HS to good advantage (I've posted a number of builds with it, but for the most part they're rare). HS is a great prestige class and underserving of the scorn with which it's viewed.
Anyhow, nice build - too bad you had to use Monk though... _________________ It's rogue, dammit, ROGUE!!!
Quote: Posted 09/29/05 16:10:17 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Xylo: nifty. Nice to see someone else using HS to good advantage (I've posted a number of builds with it, but for the most part they're rare). HS is a great prestige class and underserving of the scorn with which it's viewed.
Definitely, HS is a very viable option for many dex and charisma builds because of the way you can take great dex or great charisma instead of favored enemies. This can allow you to swap two pre-epic feats (that you spend on alertness and iron will) for two epic feats (that you free up by taking great whatever as a HS bonus). Or it can be used to free up starting stat points.
In the process you get useful save bonuses and useful buffing abilities. Not a bad deal, really.
Quote: Anyhow, nice build - too bad you had to use Monk though...
I'm an unabashed monk-lover. I've got monk builds galore in my stable They're excellent for single player because of the movement speed bonus, where you don't have to worry about leaving your party in the dust and tend to have to cross enormous maps with not much in them because of mediocre or bad module design. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Heh, I've found even more uses for the HS bonus feats. You can also pick up Epic Will and/or Epic Skill Focus if you want.
I've got builds that do just that. My 'Ultimate Rogue' uses the HS for the Epic Skill Focus feats, and my 'Guardsman' uses it for both Epic Will and Epic Skill Focus, as do both versions of my 'Harper's Vengeance' builds.
I really like the HS class and find the pre-epic feat investment is well worth it. (The skill point requirements can sometimes hurt, but access to Tumble and Discipline as class skills later can easily make up for that).
Unfortunately I'm not a fan of Monks, but I know there are lots of people that love them.
The great dex feats are important for getting dex to 30 in time to get SC 5. You need at least one "extra" great dex feat from somewhere in the build in order to have both epic weapon focus and SC 5 without having to change race and/or starting stats to start with 19 or 20 dex. You need another "extra" great dex to fit epic prowess.
I don't think great dex is in the rogue bonus feat list when taking rogue levels (it's not in the rogue epic bonus feat list, anyway, and I'm already using my rogue bonus feats to get the SC feats), but I knew I could get two from harper scout.
You're right of course, you have a well-thought out design here.
I just tested a quick build trying out my suggestions and it's not bad, but it doesn't attain SC 5. It does get HIPS, Epic Dodge, a few more Rogue bonus feats but only (heh "only") SC 4. So it could be a close variant for someone that really wants HIPS.
I have the build in an Excel file so I could post it here if anyone wants to see the leveling scheme I used.
I bow to your character building superiority!
Kaliban _________________ This space for rent
"Only" SC 4... heh heh.
In terms of cost/benefits tradeoffs I'm sure that HIPS + SC 4 is much superior to no HIPS and SC 5 in an even remotely normal environment. The only place my original build would arguably start to come out ahead is an environment where just about everything has true seeing.
In fact when I'm making a 'normal environment' dex monk I tend to stop at SC 2, and then use empty body for tight spots. The extra feats that frees up can go to solving the age-old enemies of the monk - low AB for a melee and trouble punching through DR. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
