Main Pros: Playable Massive damage with Dev Crit Decent AB dual-wielding Flurry of Blows (10 attacks per round) Imp. Evasion 140% monk speed +14 initiative
Main Cons: Crappy saves, no UMD, lowish AC
I couldn't find anything with this class combo with the search engine which was a surprise since GD mentioned playing one before but pulse cap did miss out on a lot of builds, it seems, like my ranged version of the Warden of the Forest build I did and that Monk/Fighter/WM build GD did recently
Looking for comments and suggestions...
PS: I love the Character Build Calculator spreadsheet. Go Kamiryn! Do a PRC one too sometime
Edited By griphook on 10/07/05 00:36
Nice build, looks like fun to play. I have a Monk 10/SD 5/BG 25 that is HIPS-tastically evil
Two things: 1. Why not go Monk 8/Ftr 5/BG 7 pre-epic, then take Ftr 6 at Level 21 to take EWF and EWS ASAP? I believe BG and Ftr have same AB progression so you shouldn't lose any AB.
2. Pulse Cap's search engine only hits builds posted in the All Builds thread - it doesn't search recent builds that haven't been catalogued by griphook. Once he does his monthly update and moves all recent builds to the catalogued list of builds, you will probably find your character using PC's search.
Kaliban. _________________ The people he knew were less than golden-hearted Gamblers and robbers, drinkers and jokers, all soul searchers Like you and me
I'm not sure how that leveling progression would affect saves in the end (fort save -1?) but it's a good idea . Anyhow i'm embarassed - i forgot the monk unarmed AB progression when posting the AB - he should get more attacks than that. Better run though...
Hi ..Jennalee Erm ..your "Warden of the Forest (Ranged,Casting)" Build is in the Index ??... (pulse cap updates the "search engine index" a few hours after i update the builds index)
As for builds left out...there are reasons why..
Warden Of The Forest(Ranged,Casting Version) /Druid 28/Fighter 4/CoT 8
What!! ..."Monk/Fighter/WM " build by GD ..do you mean?? (I do hope i,ve not missed one of GD's build's out Again)
griphook
Edited By griphook on 10/06/05 01:59
IIRC, those two Druid builds I posted are the only ones utilizing Druid/Fighter/CoT as a class combo. Yes, they're in the index but they're not coming up when I use that search engine, that's all...
BTW, why were some of the posted builds left out? (I was curious which ones when you mentioned that o_O - personally I wouldn't mind losing that Bane of Sneaky Types build I posted lol...)
Also, could you fix up that AB and AC of the build I posted? AC is meant to be 23 naked (*sigh*) and the AB progression like this:
Main hand: 1d6 +6(EWS) +10(STR), +40/37/34/31/28/25; Off hand: 1d6 +6(EWS) +5(STR), +40/37; +7d6 Sneaks (Crit. 19-20/x2).
Naked AC pain I split it to Monk 12/ Fighter 12/ BG 16 while I was playing with it but that loses 2d6 sneaks but can get 40 more HP, +1 to the secondary saves and +2 more AC by changing the leveling order and stats a bit and picking up armor skin -_-. Defense for some loss of sneaky offensive power gah. Blackguard backstabbing evilness just doesn't get as good as Rogue/Assassin sneakiness evilness...
Edited By Jennalee on 10/06/05 08:37
Quote: Posted 10/06/05 08:33:38 (GMT) -- Jennalee
IIRC, those two Druid builds I posted are the only ones utilizing Druid/Fighter/CoT as a class combo. Yes, they're in the index but they're not coming up when I use that search engine, that's all...
It's possible that pulse cap hasn't updated his search engine to include the latest batch of builds that were added. It may not be an automatic thing.
Steve
Quote: Jennalee Also, could you fix up that AB and AC of the build I posted? AC is meant to be 23 naked (*sigh*) and the AB progression like this:
Main hand: 1d6 +6(EWS) +10(STR), +40/37/34/31/28/25; Off hand: 1d6 +6(EWS) +5(STR), +40/37; +7d6 Sneaks (Crit. 19-20/x2).
Made those changes for you
Quote: BTW, why were some of the posted builds left out? (I was curious which ones when you mentioned that
Builds left out.... The Robust Ranger by mastercaster.. (does,nt seem to be a full build) Cleric 34/CoT 6 by ChaoticBlades ..(Not Tested)
Oh ..I tried the search engine and indeed your .. "warden of the forest(ranged/casting version)" build does not come up....very strange, It must be the build title..as they are more or less the same, the search engine is only displaying the first one Hmm ..on second thoughts the title has nothing to do with it, It searches by class levels. maybe pulse cap will know
Edited By griphook on 10/06/05 14:41
Quote: Oh ..I tried the search engine and indeed your .. "warden of the forest(ranged/casting version)" build does not come up....very strange, It must be the build title..as they are more or less the same, the search engine is only displaying the first one
Off-topic, but I had a quick look at Pulse Cap's source and it seems to me that "Warden of the Forest(Ranged/Casting Version)" has no classes listed in its entry. Hence, you can only hit it by putting Level 0 to x in all 3 classes (this way you get all the builds that are listed, and it's there)
Nice build you have here, too ^^
EDIT: markup codes > me _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
Edited By FinneousPJ on 10/06/05 14:46
A quick note, the offhand doesn't get monk progression. It will be 40/35. A minor thing tho. Anything you can hit with this fella will get devved into the next world by all those attacks.... Nice!
Nice build... I'd drop Epic Prowess to pick up Epic Fiend and have a badass Vrock helping get some more sneaks in and he's a nice IGMS/ Implosion shield at worst... I believe he'd have 220 HP with about 24? AC but goes into Imp Expertise at the ifrst sign of combat... so he's a good tank.
Other than that, wonderous.
Ah crap, I'm even more of an idiot than originally (sorry griphook): AC was 25 >_> (I didn't know about the offhand progression). I'm kind of breaking the rules here I know heh but I edit the hell out when I can to try and fix stuff before it's too late (though it doesn't seem to have worked >_<).
Yes I was going go get the Epic Vrock (I mean, it'd look like you and you mentioned the tankishness ) but I don't know about hurting the AB (by dualwielding, it doesn't go all that high usually but more attacks) and naked AC (need to stay naked for monk bonuses). If I were pushing for BG 25, I'd definitely go for it lol.
why take BG in this build as opposed to something else. without a cha boost, i don't really see the point. unless its purely for evil fun.
jsut curious
-c _________________ Et Earello Endorenna utulien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
why take BG in this build as opposed to something else. without a cha boost, i don't really see the point. unless its purely for evil fun.
jsut curious
-c
I would imagine it's a way to get sneak attack without using Rogue and dealing with an XP penalty. While you could go with Assn and get even more sneak attack dice, you'd lose HPs, the BG Bull's spell to stack your STR further, and the bonus feats that BG gets which is desired in the build (the Assn bonus feat list is limited for melee builds). Over Crit, Dev Crit, Epic Prowess, and Armor skin are all taken as bonus feats. None of these appear on the Assn bonus feat list.
Also, if you grab an item and or potions/spells that boost CHA, you have instant save boosts. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Jennalee, have you considered starting with 14 DEX and 12 WIS? You'd raise your DEX to 15 at level 4. At start, take Toughness and Blindfight, then Ambi and TWF at level 6.
In the end, you'd have the same AC (but the +1 from WIS can't be lost if flat-footed), and +1 on your Will saves. You'd lose 1 on your Reflex saves though.
*edit* I just noticed this line:
Quote: Could be improved but then again, maybe not... (Grizz, Cin?)
I'll have to tell you I'm not the best source of advice on Monk builds, as I never, ever play them. It's a... thing I have with Monks. Won't even use a single level in any build I play. However, I'm quite willing to toss in my 2 coppers. Just be aware that my advice will be suspect due to no hands-on experience with them. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Edited By Cinnabar Din on 10/07/05 05:33
I did consider that but I really don't know - that build can get a lot more AC using armor but it loses monk speed and unarmed attack bonus as well as the monk AC bonus which is compensated. The WIS would be the monk AC bonus. I guess it's a situational thing; extra AC might just save your *** if you can't get good monk robes.
As for choice of BG - Bull's STR and originally intended to get that Epic Vrock so you could have a 'double kama' friend. It's a STR build which doesn't invest much in CON so the extra HP is nice and the extra sneak attack damage from another class would be nice but not a primary concern and also the feats
I find the Monk dislike funny I don't see so much wizard or sorc hatred...
Edited By Jennalee on 10/07/05 08:48
Quote: Posted 10/05/05 10:36:45 (GMT) -- Jennalee
I couldn't find anything with this class combo with the search engine which was a surprise since GD mentioned playing one before but pulse cap did miss out on a lot of builds
You didn't find it because it isn't there. I was never really happy with it. It was a Monk6/Fighter6/BG28, who wore armour, 2-handed weapon, ESF in Disc and Taunt, and then had Epic Fiend to back him up. I abandoned the idea when I realized that Monk's don't recieve Wisdom AC bonus when in armor.
In your build, I would suggest the following: Take Epic Fiend. I would also suggest dropping 2 Monk levels for 2 fighter levels in Epic. This will free up one of your BG bonus feats so that you can take Epic Fiend and not feel guilty about dropping another feat. Take Epic Fiend at BG bonus feat 16.
Also I would advise starting with Str at 14 and add 4 points to Wisdom, or 2 points to Wisdom and 2 to Charisma. Then use all level-up points to Strength and 6 of your 7 General Epic Feats to Great Strength to still give you an ending 30 Strength. End result, same AB, same damage, better Will saves, better AC. You'll probably have to drop Sup. Init, but not a great loss.
Leave Dex at 15, don't bother trying to raise it. Take only 7 Monk levels in pre-epic so you can spread the last 3 throughout Epic. Pre-epic should look like Monk7/Fighter5/BG8. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Thing is though, I'd changed it to take 8 Monk/ 3 Fighter/ 9 BG pre-epic to try and max to weaker saves at the expense of -1 fort save. A split of 7/5/8 will end up with the somewhere around the same will save, even with the +4 to WIS as you suggested because of the save progression of classes pre-epic, -2 or 3 ref and -1 fort from the progression I posted (though you'd still get +1 more to AC naked); try it.
Save progression pre-epic is +1 every 2 levels for primary, +1 every 3 levels secondary. Monks get all saves primary, both Fighter and BG get only fort. Ideally, you'd try to take classes like fighter pre-epic in multiples of six (and with monk, try to take as many even levels as possible) to max saves though there are other far more important things to max first (you already mentioned those basically stay the same).
I don't particularly wish to drop Sup. Initiative if you're going to PvP since if it ever comes to whoever fails a dev crit save first type of situation, going first helps (though I know it's banned most places which would already let you take Epic Vrock and other stuff), otherwise I'd considering dropping the initiative feats totally, perhaps for save-boosting feats.
Dropping monk to 10 loses 10% speed bonus and Poison immunity - not sure how important this part is, and less levels to play with makes it harder to do skill top-eupc post-epic (Hide/MS too not just Tumble, see also above comment about saves if changing leveling progression).
Edited By Jennalee on 10/07/05 16:05
Quote: Posted 10/07/05 08:42:48 (GMT) -- Jennalee
I find the Monk dislike funny I don't see so much wizard or sorc hatred...
But WIZ and SOR don't have that pungent odor of fromage that surrounds the Monk... _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Quote: Posted 10/07/05 16:26:36 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din
Quote: Posted 10/07/05 08:42:48 (GMT) -- Jennalee
I find the Monk dislike funny I don't see so much wizard or sorc hatred...
But WIZ and SOR don't have that pungent odor of fromage that surrounds the Monk...
So you consider this cheese-classingb? -_-.
I guess then by analogy, wizzies smell like turnip juice but sorcs... Meh.
Quote: Posted 10/07/05 17:27:33 (GMT) -- Jennalee
So you consider this cheese-classingb? -_-.
I guess then by analogy, wizzies smell like turnip juice but sorcs... Meh.
Well, my personal view on Monks makes me consider anything with Monk in it cheese. However, I'm not arrogant enough to suggest people shouldn't play them and I'm not going to point a finger and call a build cheesy just because it has Monk in it. If anyone else wants to play Monk builds I have no problems with that, I just refuse to use them in my builds. Hell, one of my good buddies whom I played with online played nothing but Monk/CLC builds and we had a great time together. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Infernal Mantis (variant) - Monk 10/ Fighter 8/ BG 22
Trying to stick to the original's abilities as far as possible, (fast, dual-wielding kama, sneak-dev and now gets the Epic Vrock as intended, thanks to suggestions from GD but is less playable post-epic and loses poison immunity and 10% monk speed though it still retains almost-disease immunity); slightly different leveling progression.
Same stats, starting and ending (I know about the WIS AC bonus not being lost when flat-footed but DEX also adds to stealth skills - take your pick). Had also forgotten totally when I built this that BGs get Taunt as a class skill. You can drop DEX to 14 and get 14 INT to pick up Taunt at -1 AC though your AC is already rather low (which can be made up by drpping the initiative feats, STR to 15 and taking one more Great STR, etc).
I don't see so much wizard or sorc hatred...
I just noticed this line:
