Well, I saw there were no Bard/Assassins (with more than few Bard levels that is) around, so I decided to make one. First I tried a Bard/Blackguard/Assassin (Bard/Blackguard *cough*), but sadly ran out of feats (and attribute points) - Power Attack (13+ Strength), Cleave, Divine feats (13 Charisma), Two-Weapon feats (15+ Dexterity), Lingering Song, Curse Song... *shivers* After a long battle with my EditPad (and the pre-formatted build file) I had to admit my loss, and go with Fighter.
Introduction: The Singing Assassin
Playable 1-40, PvM -> I remembered it this time lol
NOTE: if you can't get high-enough dexterity items in your world, you probably should pick Still Spell. Iron Will would have to go, I think. Well, you've Clarity anyway.
Distribution ------------ Bard 16/Assassin 15/Fighter 9
Statistics:
AB -- 27 Base +8 Strength +3 Epic Weapon Focus +1 Epic Prowess -2 Dual-Wield -- 37 +5 Greater Magic Weapon +2 Bard Song +2 War Cry +2 Bull's Strength -- 48
NOTES: No stealth because I find Darkness + Ultravision and Knockdown to be enough for generating sneaks in most situations. Improved Knockdown would be nice but the 13 Intelligence is just too much It may be that your attack roll is too low to hit a Knockdown; if so, it might be worthwhile to pick a metamagic feat. It would at least enable more castings of Darkness. He should be able to use next to every item he finds with 35 UMD - if you have very high magic items you may want to go with 42 base ranks. Base Death Attack DC 15 + 10 + 1 = 26; max 32
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Suggestions, ideas?
Thank you.
EDIT: added Hide/MS comment _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
Edited By FinneousPJ on 10/17/05 20:06
i don't play assassins very much, but perhaps dropping con a bit to get more skill points wouldn't be such a bad idea. you could get some points into taunt, for example, which would allow you to lower AC and create spell failure. The lower ac would also allow you to have a better change to land those KD attempts. Alternatively, you could forget about TWF, freeing up some feats and again allowing for more skill points. This would also increase your AB. with hasted 5 attacks per round, that is as much as a regular pure 3/4 AB assassin would get. Again, the benefit is to land more KDs. As an aside, the higher INT would also increase the DC of the Death attack a bit. every little bit helps. fox's cunning comes to mind. i like the idea of using darknessi (the plural of darkness ) instead of stealth skills. it really frees up some skill points.
-c _________________ "Perception is strong and sight weak. In strategy it is important to see distant things as if they were close and to take a distanced view of close things." - Miyamoto Musashi
There certainly have been a lot of creative character concepts in this recent week, and it has helped to ease the pain I had suffered from previous weeks. At the very least, I appreciate the irony of a Bard/Assassin character, and as a DM I would go to great lengths to reward such an ambitious endeavor.
Just a couple comments on technical matters, nothing important, but I get the feeling that you get the feeling that the Bard portion of this build gets in the way of the Assassin, yes? _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Interesting build, and using a two-sided weapon. I'm a closet fan of two-sided weapons for style reasons, so I like that.
You might want to consider using the double mace instead of the double sword, though, because enemies that are immune to sneak attacks are also often immune to critical hits and tend to have slashing resistance. This makes the mace's lower threat range a nonissue and prepares you to fight boney and stoney victims.
For that matter, I find that sneak attackers usually don't benefit as much from improved critical as they do from other feats, so you might consider changing that too.
For pure powergame reasons you should dual wield maces or shortswords, so that you can switch to sword and board when you need AC or when the extra 2 AB would mean more hits than dual wielding would. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
I'll try and answer you all in one post:
Quote: christian.schnabel i don't play assassins very much, but perhaps dropping con a bit to get more skill points wouldn't be such a bad idea. you could get some points into taunt, for example, which would allow you to lower AC and create spell failure. The lower ac would also allow you to have a better change to land those KD attempts.
Taunt sounds good. I wouldn't lose any points from constitution seeing how the HP is very low. Losing concentration would be a choice too; it's about whether you want to taunt your opponents or resist their taunts.
Quote: christian.schnabel Alternatively, you could forget about TWF, freeing up some feats and again allowing for more skill points. This would also increase your AB. with hasted 5 attacks per round, that is as much as a regular pure 3/4 AB assassin would get. Again, the benefit is to land more KDs.
I wouldn't lose TWF - you don't need more feats. Changing your weapon to short swords or maces, as Xylophone suggested, would let you go with Sword/Shield style if extra AB/AC is needed.
Quote: christian.schnabel As an aside, the higher INT would also increase the DC of the Death attack a bit. every little bit helps. fox's cunning comes to mind. i like the idea of using darknessi (the plural of darkness ) instead of stealth skills. it really frees up some skill points.
As said, I wouldn't drop Constitution any further. I like using Darkness too And it looks cool.
Quote: grizzled_dwarflord There certainly have been a lot of creative character concepts in this recent week, and it has helped to ease the pain I had suffered from previous weeks. At the very least, I appreciate the irony of a Bard/Assassin character, and as a DM I would go to great lengths to reward such an ambitious endeavor.
Just a couple comments on technical matters, nothing important, but I get the feeling that you get the feeling that the Bard portion of this build gets in the way of the Assassin, yes?
Sorry but you get the wrong feeling I mean it was somewhat tough trying to fit them into the same build, yes. And the Charisma score isn't used very effectively with this build (it might be possible to drop the 2 Great Charisma feats for Great Strength or something, losing 5th and 6th level spells), but still I find the Bard spells - at least 1st to 4th level spells - to be helpful, as well as Bard/Curse Song.
I love Bards and I enjoy the concept of the Assassin - and the combination of these two is fascinating
You would probably get better synergy with Wizard (uses Intelligence) but well, one's got to have some fun at times. I think this build is fun.
Hope I cleared it up
Quote: Xylophone Interesting build, and using a two-sided weapon. I'm a closet fan of two-sided weapons for style reasons, so I like that.
You might want to consider using the double mace instead of the double sword, though, because enemies that are immune to sneak attacks are also often immune to critical hits and tend to have slashing resistance. This makes the mace's lower threat range a nonissue and prepares you to fight boney and stoney victims.
For that matter, I find that sneak attackers usually don't benefit as much from improved critical as they do from other feats, so you might consider changing that too.
For pure powergame reasons you should dual wield maces or shortswords, so that you can switch to sword and board when you need AC or when the extra 2 AB would mean more hits than dual wielding would.
I am too a fan of two-sided weapons, and your point about the mace is good. I personally think the mace looks better aswell I wanted to use a TBS because you can cast Keen Edge on it, but undead are f'ugly indeed.
I don't see too many feats the build's missing - Called Shot perhaps? More criticals is nice when you happen to have a non-critical immune foe
True about the last part. However style comes first, no?
Thanks everyone _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
Taunt sounds good. I wouldn't lose any points from constitution seeing how the HP is very low. Losing concentration would be a choice too; it's about whether you want to taunt your opponents or resist their taunts.
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Just a note. If you drop Concentration in favour of taunt, then not only do you become vulnerable to taunt but you also become vulnerable to losing concentration when casting spells. While the main use of spells here is for buffing, presumably before the fact I assume, i thought i should point that out. Sometimes that impr invis is a just a life saver when you need it in the miuddle of a battle. That was why I was looking for more skill points instead of shifting them around. Also, as I mentioned, the DA DC would increase with a greater INT.
I know that HPs are important for all chars, but for some more so than others. As as assassin, most of his tactics will use surprise and getting the upper hand. If that DA lands, coupled with a few KD while in Darkness, you are looking at some serious damage dealing. Hence the need not to worry about HPs as much. But i guess it depends on how you play your char. As a melee machine, HPs are very important. Perhaps even worth dropping 5,6th level spells and swapping CHA for some more CON?
-c
Dropping Charisma for Constitution is a worthwhile choice. You would get 436 HP this way, which is just over the magic number 400
Starting with 14 Intelligence would net you the skill points needed for taunt. You would have to drop your starting Strength, Constitution or Charisma for that, however. Starting with lower Strength means lower damage and AB on lower levels. Lower Constitution means lower HP and finally a lower Charisma means getting your Spells later. I guess it comes down to what are you willing to sacrifice on your lower levels to gain more skill points.
And yes, you're right about Concentration; it does do double-duty. But you're right about the nature of an Assassin character too. And somehow I feel that if your Assassin doesn't need HP, she doesn't need Concentration either
Concentration is nice, though, because it just might enable you to cast that one Darkness or Improved Invisibility in the middle of a fight. And that may well save your life _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
It may be that your attack roll is too low to hit a Knockdown; if so, it might be worthwhile to pick a metamagic feat. It would at least enable more castings of Darkness.
) instead of stealth skills. it really frees up some skill points.