The Gravewalker Assassin is a master of necromancy and stealth. He has trained himself to cast spells without making a sound thus enabling him to cast debilitating spells on his victims or slay them outright, before they are even aware that he is present. If his victim proves hardy enough to withstand his spells, he will conceal himself with invisibility spells or darkness for another attack. He will then attempt to disable them with his assassin's poisoned death attack or his skeletal arm, which can paralyze or kill with its touch. He can summon many undead minions to aid him or distract his opponents and his faithful panther familiar will often creep in the shadows with him.
Playable 1-40 PvM
Race: Elf Alignment: Any Evil
Abilities STR 10 DEX 18(24) CON 12 INT 16(20) WIS 10 CHA 8
Wizard Spell School: Necromancy
01: Wizard(1): Combat Casting, WIZ: (Summon Familiar, Scribe Scroll) 02: Wizard(2) 03: Wizard(3): Toughness 04: Pale Master(1): INT +1, PM: (Bone Skin), (Int=17) 05: Pale Master(2): PM: (Animate Dead) 06: Wizard(4): Empower Spell 07: Pale Master(3): PM: (Darkvision) 08: Pale Master(4): INT +1, PM: (Summon Undead), (INT=18) 09: Wizard(5): Spell Focus: Necromancy, WIZ: (Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy) 10: Pale Master(5): PM: (Deathless Vigor) 11: Pale Master(6): PM: (Undead Graft) 12: Wizard(6): INT +1, Extend Spell, (INT=19) 13: Pale Master(7): PM: (Tough as Bone) 14: Pale Master(8): PM: (Undead Graft II) 15: Wizard(7): Quicken Spell 16: Pale Master(9): INT +1, PM: (Summon Greater Undead), (INT=20) 17: Pale Master(10): PM: (Deathless Mastery, Deathless Master Touch) 18: Wizard(8): Weapon Finesse 19: Assassin(1): ASN: (Use Poison) 20: Assassin(2): DEX +1, ASN: (Ghostly Visage, Poison Save I, Uncanny Dodge I), (DEX=19)
21: Pale Master(11): Armor Skin 22: Pale Master(12) 23: Wizard(9) 24: Assassin(3): DEX +1, Improved Combat Casting, (DEX=20) 25: Assassin(4): ASN: (Poison Save II) 26: Wizard(10): WIZ: (Silent Spell) 27: Pale Master(13): Automatic Silent Spell I, PM: (Automatic Silent Spell II) 28: Assassin(5): DEX +1, ASN: (Darkness, Uncanny Dodge II), (DEX=21) 29: Assassin(6): ASN: (Invisibility, Poison Save III) 30: Pale Master(14): Automatic Silent Spell III 31: Assassin(7) 32: Assassin(8): DEX +1, ASN:(Poison Save IV), (DEX=22) 33: Pale Master(15): Automatic Quicken Spell I 34: Assassin(9): ASN: (Improved Invisibility) 35: Assassin(10): ASN: (Uncanny Dodge III, Poison Save V) 36: Pale Master(16): DEX +1, Automatic Quicken Spell II, PM: (Automatic Quicken Spell III), (DEX=23) 37: Assassin(11) 38: Assassin(12): ASN: (Poison Save VI+) 39: Wizard(11): Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy 40: Assassin(13): DEX +1, (DEX=24)
Max HP: 341 BAB: 20 AB: (Mundane Rapier): 1d6, +27/+22; +7d6 Death Attack (DC 28) AC: (Naked/Padded Armor): 37/38
Saves: Fort: 20 (+6 v. Poison) Reflex: 25 (+2 v. Traps) Will: 23 (+2 v. Mind Affecting)
Your max HP is actually 346 - perhaps you forgot 5 from Epic Deathless Vigor at level 15.
Nice concept, even though you have so much stuff listed on your level ups that it's very hard to read ;x One thing though: why Dexterity-based? You don't get Epic Dodge/Self-Concealment. Hell, you don't even dual-wield!
And I've understood that Auto-Quicken does nothing if you're Hasted. Dropping them would free up some feats, perhaps for Epic Skill Foci if going Strength-based (following grizzled_dwarflord's Strengthy Assassin template ) or Epic Spells.
I think using Rogue would be better overall, though. It'd make it possible to have Epic Dodge, too, if you wanted (you need 25 Dexterity however).
Oh and finally: are the Spell Focus feats really necessary? _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
I like the concept and find the name to be evocative of the concept. You are on to something.
However, while he can enjoy Concealment from a variety of sources, and further back it up with a high AC, I fear the AB is not going to be strong enough to hit anything. This is further compounded by only 2 attacks per round. Even on a hit, 7d6 sneak is not going to be enough to bring down the big bulls in this game.
Further 28 Death Attack DC isn't going to cut it. This pretty much guarantees only a 5% chance of success, and that's assuming autofail: 1 isn't disabled. And while he does have some spell power early on, this quickly gets watered down the deeper you go into Epic, leaving you to be more or less a sitting duck.
If it were me, I might think about going Wizard5/PM16/Assn19, or Wiz5/PM10/Assn25(for a very solid DA DC), or a Bard4/PM10/Assn26. I would further go Strength based and take every Stealth feat I could get my hands on. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
If it were me, I might think about going Wizard5/PM16/Assn19, or Wiz5/PM10/Assn25(for a very solid DA DC), or a Bard4/PM10/Assn26. I would further go Strength based and take every Stealth feat I could get my hands on.
If you use Wizard you can only pick 7 Assassin levels pre-epic max. This means a BAB of 11 (I think, can't bother using a calculator ). This is why I would either go with Bard (doesn't have to CC for Hide/MS) or drop Assassin and go with Rogue. You don't have any pre-reqs for Rogue
EDIT: nvm, the Grimoire claims PMs have Hide/MS *blushes* Stupid me! _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
If it were me, I might think about going Wizard5/PM16/Assn19, or Wiz5/PM10/Assn25(for a very solid DA DC), or a Bard4/PM10/Assn26. I would further go Strength based and take every Stealth feat I could get my hands on.
If you use Wizard you can only pick 7 Assassin levels pre-epic max. This means a BAB of 11 (I think, can't bother using a calculator ). This is why I would either go with Bard (doesn't have to CC for Hide/MS) or drop Assassin and go with Rogue. You don't have any pre-reqs for Rogue
Contraire, mon fraire. Hide/MS is a class skill for PMs. He could take 10 Assn levels.
Though I would still take Bard to preserve BAB. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I think bard would be important for another reason - end on a bard level to get discipline. Rogue instead of assassin would benefit the build by opening up the rogue bonus feats (improved evasion, etc), so if you aren't taking 25 or so assassin levels for a useful death attack DC you'd be better off with rogue.
So something like 5 bard/16 PM/19 rogue is an option, or 5 bard/10 PM/25 assassin. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Thanks for the comments so far, they've been very helpful!
First off, I'd like to say, to me the Gravewalker is not so much a maximized build but rather an interesting character to roleplay, or an interesting concept for a villainous NPC. So I admit he's probably better off getting killed by a pack of lower-level epic PCs. I probably should've stated such to begin with.
I chose the classes I did, because they had previously been unused, and because I wanted my character to focus on necromancy in a way that a bard can't with spells. And, I chose dexterity-based in order to boost hiding skills and to boost my AB with weapon finesse, which I was thinking would make Undead Graft II and Deathless Mastery Touch more effective (for touch attacks). However, I certainly see that his AB is wanting even with the boost from weapon finesse.
I didn't realize that Automatic Quicken Spell did not stack with the effects from haste (*mutters about an incomplete feat description*), thus making those feats more useful in a PNP setting where every 5th item doesn't have perma-haste on it. In that case, I will probably rebuild this character to give him some more attacks per round, a better AB, and I might take some epic spells in place of the Automatic Quicken Spell feats.
EDIT: Note that taking 5 levels of wizard and more levels of assassin would make me inelligible for Automatic Silent Spell, which requires the abilty to cast 9th level spells, and is a defining aspect of this PC's character.
Edited By Ythaniel on 10/22/05 17:13
Actually I'm pretty sure that with 16 PM levels you're qualified for auto-xxx spell feats... I was able to qualify for epic spells (requires ability to cast 9th level spells) in my Master of the Long Death build with 3 wizard levels and 16 PM levels. This could be different but, I suggest trying it in a leveller module to find out for sure.
If you're married to wizard, 3 wiz/21 rogue/16 PM is a very workable idea power-wise, but you'd be best-off going rogue 1-20 before multiclassing because of the AB issue.
In general, you'd probably also be best off forgetting about offensive casting. The truth is that you'll never get a competitive spell save DC in a heavily multiclassed caster build, and you won't have the ability to penetrate SR on most enemies without a minimum 26 caster levels (and PM levels do not count as caster levels for SR at all).
In the end there are few effective melee/magic arcane builds because for good reasons: the limitations of SR penetration, save DCs, arcane caster AB progression, and arcane spell failure. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
I'm married to Wizard/Pale Master/Assassin. I wanted that Intelligence bonus to make his Death Attack DC climb. I will definitely take more Assassin levels and see if I can't shift around Wizard/Pale Master levels, to make this work better.
Alright then, here's a revised version of the Gravewalker Assassin, this time with emphasis on the Assassin part. The reason for the odd pattern of Assassin and Pale Master levels is to maximize Tumble AC Bonus whenever possible.
Illusionist 5/Pale Master 10/Assassin 25
Race: Human Alignment: Any Evil
Stats: STR 14(26) DEX 15 CON 12 INT 16(20) WIS 10 CHA 8
*-Could be swapped for Medium Armor, then switch Wizard 5 with an earlier Pale Master level for Still Spell. **-Could be swapped for Improved Sneak Attack I ***-Swap with Empower Spell to enhance Flame Weapon
He has two sets of melee weapons. He wields sickles against the living so as not to damage their bones which he may use later in his animation spells. And he wields a morning star and mace against the undead.
BAB: 22 AB: (x2 Mundane Sickles or Mundane Morning Star and Mundane Mace) +28/+23/+18/+28/+23. Truestrike AB (x7 per day): +48/+43/+38/+48/+43.
+2 to all with Extended Bull's Strength
Damage: - (Sickles) 1d6 + 8/1d6 + 4; (Morning Star/Mace) 1d8+8/1d6+4 - (w/ Extended Bull's Strength) 1d6+10/1d6+5 or 1d8+10/1d6+5 - (w/ Stilled Flame Weapon) +1d4+5 fire damage to each weapon - Death Attack +13d6 (DC 40/ + 2 Extended Fox's Cunning = DC 42)
*-May be moved around to other skills such as Persuade, Search, Pick Pocket x-Cross-Class
Important Spells: Level 1 (7): Truestrike, Mage Armor, Protection v. Good/Evil Level 2 (6): Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Darkness, Death Armor, Fox's Cunning, Flame Weapon, Ghostly Visage, Invisibility, Ultravision Level 3 (5): Clarity, Protection v. Elements Level 4 (5): Improved Invisibility, Stone Skin Level 5 (4): Energy Buffer, Lesser Mind Blank, Mestil's Acid Sheath
Generally I would extend all buffing spells, and then reserve all level 1 slots for Truestrike and Level 2 slots for Darkness. Darkness is about the only thing that will keep him from getting owned with his lowish AC and low HP. Hopefully other casters aren't too good at counterspelling or loaded up with light spells.
So...is that better? I followed grizzled_dwarflord's suggestions about classes and strength, FinneousPJ's inference that dual-wielding might be good, and worked around the Discipline gap pointed out by Xylophone.
Edited By Ythaniel on 10/24/05 14:41
Your AB needs work... this is a melee build now, I think you should stop sacrificing melee power for casting power.
Dump intelligence... take it down to a final stat of 16. You're only getting up to level 5 wizard spells, and your death attack DC will only lose 2 (a small price to pay compared to having a death attack you can't hit anything with). Put the points that frees up towards strength so your AB bumps up a point or two. This will also make you more playable in the pre-epic levels as a melee because you'll be improving your AB and your damage instead of your intelligence when you are low level.
I realize you want to swap weapons but you really should pick something and use focus/epic focus. Even then your AB is only low-30s. You can't rely on true strike in this build, it only lasts 9 seconds and can't be extended so you absolutely have to cast it in battle.
What will happen with this character is that you'll never hit with a death attack against a nontrivial enemy. If you buff true strike before you attack, you come out of stealth and it won't count as a death attack. If you don't buff true strike before you attack, it'll count as a death attack but it will just miss on their AC.
I'd dump dualwield in this build and focus in on a two handed weapon. That would put your AB solidly into the middle 30s before buffs - still not spectacular but a lot more workable with equipment.
That will allow you to dump dexterity to 14 and free up 2 base stat points, again for strength.
Take the dualwield feats you're dropping and change them to get improved knockdown, and move one of your level 1 feats up and replace it with either luck of heroes or strong soul (your saves are pretty low).
At this point your AB will be up in a range where you don't need to constantly buff true strike to hit things, so I'd change from improved combat casting to saving throw feats instead for fortitude and will (say, iron will and epic fortitude).
Just some suggestions... I think however, that you'll find what I mean about AB and death attack if you playtest this build without any magic items. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By Xylophone on 10/24/05 17:26
Sound advice. I could maybe put some more points into CON that way as well.
The way that true strike would work for this build as it is now would be in darkness. Correct me if I'm wrong, but regardless of whether the enemy has true-seeing or ultravision, I believe you still get sneak attacks when fighting in darkness. Thus if I were going against an enemy with high AC I would surround them with darkness and use my true strikes to overcome their AC. One slot given up to extended ultravision will negate the 50% concealment bonus that everyone has in darkness. That, and the character can cast darkness as many as 13 times per day if he really wants to.
Still, the two-handed weapon would also improve damage overall, so I have to seriously consider that.
Edit: I'm fairly new to Epic Builds, could someone possibly recommend a good place to playtest them?
Edited By Ythaniel on 10/24/05 17:44
Yes... you get sneak attacks in darkness unless the opponent has ultravision.
However sneak attack does not mean death attack. An enemy that's detected you/is in combat mode can't be death attacked at all. You'll still get your sneak attack damage but not the death attack paralyzation chance. Death attack is, as far as I'm aware, first-strike-only unless you have HIPS.
Darkness -may- allow you to get more death attacks off against NPCs, however that's because of a semi-bug semi-feature of the NPC AI. By default NPCs tend to not react if they can't see you - even if they can hear you. If you look in their combat AI scripts you can see where their reaction to a successful Listen check is commented out but a Spot check isn't.
Meaning that against NPCs, the only stealth skill that counts is Hide not Move Silently, and for NPCs, the Listen skill is a waste. It's thought that this was done to make Invisibility, uh, work. PWs may change this though.
As for Darkness, this is probably why sometimes enemies drop out of combat mode when they're in darkness and go back to general NPC putzing around, making them flatfooted and possibly - but not definitely - opening up more death attacks. I haven't tested this with death attack, and it almost certainly won't work against players, mind you.
As for a place to test builds - the Novice to Epic Character Builder Module is a leveller module that includes shops and an arena area where you can pick opponents to test your character against. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Arg, something I forgot to mention as well, was that I didn't only take the Int for spellcasting and Death Attack, but for skill points as well. I guess I could lose the points in Disable Trap and Open Lock, but the other skills seem necessary to me. Bearing that in mind, I could see losing 2 INT to strength.
Hrm, I need to know where you fight non-trivial enemies with 40 AC where you get no magic weapons to really know how my builds work out, it seems. :/
Edit: And thank you very much for pointing out the module.
Edited By Ythaniel on 10/24/05 18:24
Just buy only nonmagic gear, go into the arena on the epic builder module I linked and ask for the level 40 fighter.
It's not 'realistic' to assume you won't have magic items but it's not realistic to assume you will get a specific magic item or type of magic item, either - and there are caps and limits on how much +AB and +stat and stuff you can get. The maximum +AB (from buff or item) is 20 and the maximum +stat (from buff or item) is 12 - resulting in +6 from stat bonus. When true strike is active you'll have the same AB with a nonmagic weapon as with a magic one.
So in your build with +28 AB, the maximum AB you can get is +54 even if you have a +30 weapon, +20 in strength gear, buff bull's strength and cast true strike. All the extra buffing/item bonus past +20 AB and +12 to strength is just ignored. (There's also a cap of +20 AC from any one type - dodge, armor, shield, natural - meaning that you can get +80 to AC from items! However while AB and stat boosts stack, AC boosts don't).
It's not 40 AC that's your worry by the way... it's 70 to 90 AC. That's what you're likely to be up against in terms of "boss monsters" and epically equipped player characters. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By Xylophone on 10/24/05 18:32
Here's my rework on your build... basically I give up dual wielding, improved combat casting, spells per day, and most magic related feats for AB and death attack damage/DC.
The AB is still pretty low by melee standards but when you do hit something it'll hurt.
% - I picked halberd for a 2-handed weapon with dual damage types for bypassing DR/immunities. However you can use whatever you want and possibly free up a feat by dumping martial weapons. * - Optional but recommended feat + - Epic Assassin Bonus Feat ++ - Imp SA doesn't work with assassin, however the other option at this point is Great Dex 1, which doesn't benefit you really. In case they ever fix it, you'll have it.
Skills - CC discipline, max tumble and UMD with assassin, 40 spellcraft at level 39, max concentration at PM 39, leftover points to Search.
Ending Vitals (unbuffed):
+35 AB, +13 damage using halberd AC 26 naked, 29 in AC 3 light armor Fort 27 Reflex 27 Will 24 +8 vs spells 13d6 Sneak Attack Dice (14d6 if/when Imp SA is fixed) 39 Death Attack DC
Casts 5th level spells, but has fewer spells per day. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Xylo, other than +1 on your DC and a useless bonus feat, Assn 26 does very little. I'd suggest taking WIZ 5 instead. Use the bonus feat for Empower Spell, Still Spell, or Silent Spell. Gives you a few more options in your spell book. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
I took it for the +1 DC since I was using a lower int, the useless bonus feat was a side effect.
Wiz 5 is quite feasible but I wanted to minimize wizard levels and abandon casting while threatened as much as possible to see how much it would improve the build... in fact I only took the 4th wizard level for a pre-epic AB bump. Wiz 4 = +2 AB, PM 6 = +3 AB, Assassin 10 = +7 AB for a total of +12, not enough for 4 attacks but also not wasting any AB on the arcane classes. Wiz 3/PM 7/Assassin 10 or wiz 3/PM 8/assasin 9 would have lost AB.
You could go 8 assassin/6 wiz/6 PM pre-epic and end up with the same AB and more spell power, and a final build like 24 assassin/6 wiz/10 PM.
But it's pretty well known I'm really, really not a fan of arcane caster/melee hybrid builds. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By Xylophone on 10/24/05 19:57
Alright, I'll compromise with you on your build.
I'm taking back my 5th level of Wizard and the extra spells, so I can have my 7 Truestrikes instead of 6.
I'll trade you your Martial Weapon Proficiency and Focus in Halberd for Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Focus in Scythe. That will preserve some of my original theme, while still doing two types of damage.
I tried your exact leveling scheme in the module you linked for me and my saves didn't come out the same as the ones you list. I have Fort 22, Reflex 26, and Will 23. They're the same with swapping that level 26 Asn with level 5 Wiz, as is the BAB.
Thanks very much for helping me hash this out. I'll know better to really think things through before posting another build.
Edit: My build can also do one more fire damage with Flame Weapon.
2nd Edit: Arg, still only 6 Truestrikes, but its better than 5!
Edited By Ythaniel on 10/24/05 21:19
Odd on the saves... maybe I took epic fortitude or something else in my version and missed it when I was writing things down.
Scythe's perfectly cool.
But true strike isn't the solution to AB problems, it's a band aid at best. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
% - I picked halberd for a 2-handed weapon with dual damage types for bypassing DR/immunities.
Won't that make you vulnerable to the Two Damage Type DR Bug? ie if your weapon does both slash and pierce damage, and the opponent has pierce DR it will affect your slash damage as well?
I like the decision to drop dual-wielding and focus on a single weapon.
As for the need for Wizard and the religious devotion to True Strike....I keep reading this and thinking BARD! Is Bard not really an option here?
I really like the character idea though.
Kaliban. _________________ What I'm reading now: The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer.
Bard/Pale Master is so tired. Give him a rest already. I chose these classes because no one else had used them in this combination, and because I saw synergy in the Intelligence bonuses to Wizard spells and Assassin Death Attack.
I'm not religiously devoted to true strike. But its nice to have it. I never intended to rely on it entirely, and I don't think I said that. I'm just insisting that more of them makes combat easier and this character more viable against high AC opponents.
Edited By Ythaniel on 10/25/05 19:49
Okay to be fair, the search engine doesn't reveal a Bard/Pale Master/Assassin either. By all means go ahead and make one. Wizard is really what I want for this build though.
Quote: Posted 10/25/05 21:02:32 (GMT) -- Ythaniel
Okay to be fair, the search engine doesn't reveal a Bard/Pale Master/Assassin either. By all means go ahead and make one. Wizard is really what I want for this build though.
Er, thanks but I don't want one.
Kaliban. _________________ What I'm reading now: The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer.
) or Epic Spells.
). This is why I would either go with Bard (doesn't have to CC for Hide/MS) or drop Assassin and go with Rogue. You don't have any pre-reqs for Rogue 
In that case, I will probably rebuild this character to give him some more attacks per round, a better AB, and I might take some epic spells in place of the Automatic Quicken Spell feats.
I followed grizzled_dwarflord's suggestions about classes and strength, FinneousPJ's inference that dual-wielding might be good, and worked around the Discipline gap pointed out by Xylophone.