Palemaster Special Abilities & Feats Level 1 Bone Skin Level 2 Animate Dead Level 3 Darkvision Level 4 Summon Undead Level 5 Deathless Vigor Level 6 Undead Graft I Level 7 Tough as Bone Level 8 Undead Graft II Level 9 Summon Greater Undead Level 10 Deathless Master Touch Deathless Mastery
RDD Special Abilities & Feats Level 1 Draconic Armor Hit Die Increase (d6) Level 2 Draconic Abilities Level 3 Dragon Breath Level 4 Hit Die Increase (d8) Level 6 Hit Die Increase (d10) Level 9 Wings Level 10 Half-Dragon Darkvison Immune to Fire Immune to Paralysis Immune to Sleep
The saves are pretty dismal but the build is immune to piles of stuff you'd like to save against, like stun, paralysis, fire.
It should be able to dish it out and be pretty darn hard to hit, a regular draco-tank.
Edited By griphook on 10/30/05 18:29
Really nice build...saves apart as you said. Bard song is gonna be quite effective and your melee presence is something. Immune to a bunch of stuff and you've got epic warding and mage armor too. A question: what are the DCs for paralyze and death touch?
Done a search on similar builds?
Really nice build...saves apart as you said. Bard song is gonna be quite effective and your melee presence is something. Immune to a bunch of stuff and you've got epic warding and mage armor too.
Thanks. I am afraid (as Grimnir points out) that it may not be very original. Sort of builds itself once you work out the classes. Still, I haven't seen it exactly like this. Probably exists, lol.
Quote: A question: what are the DCs for paralyze and death touch?
hmmmm. I can't find anything in the grimoire on this. And I haven't played it yet to know.
I went back a few pages after reading Ralkain's build, trying to figure it out. I didn't go through the index. Ah, well, can't please everyone all the time.
About paralyze/deat touch DC: 17 only?!? You mean it doesn't change with character/class (PM) lvl? That's too bad! Should be changed to something scaling with PM lvls at least _________________ Dilegua notte Tramontate stelle Tramontate stelle All'alba vincerò Vincerò Vincerò
Found 11 matches: Bard 4/PM 26/RDD 10 --Bran Blackboon Freak of Nature / Bard 6/PM 20/RDD 14 --BRIAN FELLOW Palemaster Tank /Bard 6/RDD 10/PM 24 --Bruce Lee 72 Black Widow /Bard 14/RDD 10/PM 16 --Grimnir77 Bard 14 /RDD 10 /PM 16 --Herbie Shimmer Pale Drake /PM 24/RDD 10/Bard 6 --Ralkain 17 Mini – Dracolich /Bard 17/Palemaster 13/RDD 10 --SirGunky Dracolich Avatar /Bard 4/PM 12/RDD 24 --uanime Original Avatar of Ruin /Bard 10/RDD 10/PM 20 --Wildeyes Revised Avatar of Ruin /Bard14/RDD10/PM16 --Wildeyes Grim Bard /Bard14/RDD10/PM16 --Zhoreb
So it appears that Zhoreb, Grimnir, Wildeyes, and Herbie Shimmer have at least apportioned the build with the same class/level arrangement.
Which explains why Grimnir might care to post to this effect. I did not mean to not give credit where due, or to retread. Just posting a build that occurred to me, apparently later than it did to some.
Black Widow /Bard 14/RDD 10/PM 16 --Grimnir77 Click Here
This is a dexer. Really, very different.
Bard 14 /RDD 10 /PM 16 --Herbie Shimmer Click Here
This build starts with different stats and takes some odd feats to really end up with -- imho -- a different and slightly worse build.
Revised Avatar of Ruin /Bard14/RDD10/PM16 --Wildeyes Click Here
This is a halfling, really starved for ability points on creation, feats in pre-epic, and skill points generally.
Grim Bard /Bard14/RDD10/PM16 --Zhoreb Click Here
This is probably the closest, but my allocation of ability points at creation allows for a higher final strength and I don't have to take any pre-epic feats in epic. This build does go IKD and is a more pure brawler. I apportioned it differently. Tastes and all.
I really wasn't looking for credit. There were no search engine when I posted my build, but there are many with these exact levels. And even one more not updated yet. I hadn't posted had i known that.
My OP on Black widow was DEX, but if you look at the suggestions it include STR to, to get 42 AB. That's the char i play on my PW. And that's quite similar toy yours.
Your build is good, and I agree to STR path. You need offense. It will turn out to be a char able to hold its own in most settings. A bit tough at low levels, i found, but it gets OK from about lvl 12.
I really wasn't looking for credit. There were no search engine when I posted my build, but there are many with these exact levels. And even one more not updated yet. I hadn't posted had i known that.
My OP on Black widow was DEX, but if you look at the suggestions it include STR to, to get 42 AB. That's the char i play on my PW. And that's quite similar toy yours.
Your build is good, and I agree to STR path. You need offense. It will turn out to be a char able to hold its own in most settings. A bit tough at low levels, i found, but it gets OK from about lvl 12.
With the strength build, I have found that fighting at the low levels with a two-hander (taking power attack and cleave before committing to sword and board by the WF: Rapier) really helps shift some of the build's strengths to offense.
Heya Ith. I keep an eye out for your builds, as I think they are generally pretty well thought-out and solid. In spite of the fact that apparently there are a number of builds featuring this level balance, I think your build is different enough to still be original and is very cool. Even though I have always thought that PM builds were pretty lame RP-wise (ooh, look at me---I'm undead!) and also can be rather boring to level, I may give this one a go since it seems to pack more punch than most others of this type and combining RDD and PM seems interesting. Any chance you could come up with the quick and dirty list of his "defining" abilities/immunities without too much trouble? The PM list above doesn't tell me much since I don't play them.
Either way, kudos to you once again. _________________ Favorite PW's: Hall of the Worlds, Higher Ground, World of Iniquity.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
According to the Grimoire:
Deathless Mastery Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 10 Specifics: The character becomes immune to critical hits. Use: Automatic
Deathless Vigor Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 5 Specifics: The character gains +3 hit points per level. Use: Automatic
Deathless Master Touch Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 10 Specifics: The character’s touch becomes deadly, instantly killing unless a DC 17 Fortitude save is made. Use: Selected
Tough as Bone Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 7 Specifics: Pale Master becomes immune to Stun, Hold, and Paralyzation. Use: Automatic
Undead Graft I-II Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 6 Specifics: 2x/day a Pale Master may use their undead arm to paralyze foes. At level 8 this may be used 3x/day.
Bone Skin Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 1 Specifics: The character gains an innate +2 bonus to their AC at 1st, 4th, and 8th levels. Use: Automatic
Animate Dead Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Mater 2 Specifics: 1x/day the character may Animate Dead as a spell-like ability. Use: Selected
Summon Undead Type of Feat: Class Prerequisite: Pale Master 4 Specifics: The character can summon an undead creature 2x/day as a spell-like ability. The level of the Pale Master determines the type of undead that is summoned: · Level 4 Ghoul · Level 5 Ghoul · Level 6 Shadow · Level 7 Ghast · Level 8 Wight · Level 9 Wraith
Good hunting, and thanks again for the positive feedback.
Quote: Posted 10/25/05 14:46:52 (GMT) -- chsmi
Even though I have always thought that PM builds were pretty lame RP-wise (ooh, look at me---I'm undead!).
_________________ What I'm reading now: The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer.
Don't you have to be PM level 15 before you can start getting Epic Spells?
Right. The only thing he can do with that 13 PM level is take Ouch Resistance: Electrical, or something along those lines. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
I hope not! That may be true, but I haven't seen that. That would affect the build. I still like it, but no greater ruin, my sort of ace in the hole. And a more or less useless PM feat at 36. Energy Resistance or something (well, not useless, but I like the idea of unloading greater ruin on a pesky foe).
Don't you have to be PM level 15 before you can start getting Epic Spells?
unfortunately, if grizz says it, it is so.
grumble.
doesn't ruin the build but three epic spells on a tank was cool.
You could still get Greater Ruin if you found a way to take that 15th PM on Lvl 36, then on Lvl 39 take PM16.
I find Epic Warding to be the only one worth the feat anyway. Though in your case, you need all the offensive spell punch you can get, so I understand your desire to seek them. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Edited By grizzled_dwarflord on 10/25/05 18:16
It's a really annonying bonus feat if you aren't already a 9th level caster. I usaully slip in Improved Combat Casting, but seeing as you don't have the concentration or the Combat Casting, that is moot. You wouldn't qualify for Auto spells feats, or ESP or ESF. Energy Resistance it is for you (tip: don't choose fire ).
You could still get Greater Ruin if you found a way to take that 15th PM on Lvl 36, then on Lvl 39 take PM16.
I am afraid the dream is dead, grizz. You can do it (see below) but the playability cost plus the AC lost is high:
21 Pale 1 OverCrit 22 Pale 2 23 Pale 3 24 Pale-4 Str 27, Dev Crit 25 Pale-5 26 Pale-6 27 Bard 13 EWF 28 Pale-7 Str 28, 29 Pale-8 30 Pale-9 Epic SF: Discipline; 31 Pale-10 32 Pale 11 Str 29 33 Pale-12 Great Strength I (30) 34 Pale-13 Epic Energy Resistance: Acid 35 Pale-14 36 Pale-15 Str 31, ES: Epic Mage Armor 37 RDD 9 Int 16 38 RDD-10 RDD Str 30, Cha 16 39 Pale-16 ES: Epic Warding; ES: Greater Ruin 40 Bard-14 Str 36
This costs you two AC (for the loss of Armor Skin) but gives you Epic Energy Resistance or the meta magic feat of your choice (would have to be pre-epic unless you wanted to trade in curse song for the pre-epic prerequisite).
On balance, I'd leave it how it is and just take Epic Energy Resistance, Epic Mage Armor, and Epic Warding. Those two epic spells last for hours and will affect, therefore, every opponent you face, as will the Armor Skin you get to keep as a result. Greater Ruin is a one-shot deal. So...
36 Pale-13 Str 35, Armor Skin; Energy Resistance: Acid or Still Spell 37 Pale-14 38 Pale-15 39 Pale-16 ES: Epic Warding; ES: Epic Mage Armor 40 Bard-14 Str 36
Thanks for making the build buildable, Grizz.
Edited By Ithacan on 10/25/05 18:40
Quote: Posted 10/25/05 18:18:10 (GMT) -- mphacon
It's a really annonying bonus feat if you aren't already a 9th level caster. I usaully slip in Improved Combat Casting, but seeing as you don't have the concentration or the Combat Casting, that is moot. You wouldn't qualify for Auto spells feats, or ESP or ESF. Energy Resistance it is for you (tip: don't choose fire ).
Plus I run around in full plate. All my casting save epic would be buffing. It's a buff and melee build at heart, which is funny for a supposed caster build.
Here is a different 'fix'
Click Here
I love this build. Been using it for the past few days, but there are two things that I really want to fit into it, and was hoping that someone more experienced than myself could give me some advice.
Is there anyway to fit still spell and blind-fight into this build?
About paralyze/deat touch DC: 17 only?!? You mean it doesn't change with character/class (PM) lvl? That's too bad! Should be changed to something scaling with PM lvls at least
Kail, the death touch DC increases by +1 for every 2 PM levels after 10th. Thus, a 30th level PM has a DC 27 death touch. Pretty much useless. _________________ CATS!
I love this build. Been using it for the past few days, but there are two things that I really want to fit into it, and was hoping that someone more experienced than myself could give me some advice.
Is there anyway to fit still spell and blind-fight into this build?
Let me put it this way. A build that goes for Dev-crit without any bonus feats except the two PM ones, is really, REALLY hard pressed for feats and can hardly fit in the essentials like BF, still spell, curse song lingering song, KD etc..... _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Let me translate Grim's post : drop Dev Crit and its line of feats and free up slots for those nice features like LS, still spell, BF, etc. Both me and Grim basically never use Dev Crit (myself, I go for it sometimes although very rarely) and our builds manage to be efficient and fun to play none the less.
Cheers, Kail _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
I didn't necessarily say that. It's basically true, but my exact point was that when you go Dev-crit (or WM )in a build that has no bonus combat-feats, then it comes at a huge cost to everything else. It's useless-feat demanding. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
I know and we agree 100%. I just wanted to give the lad a feasible way to get those nice feats he wanted. A way I have already gone with a build similar to this and lemme say I did not miss Dev Crit... not that I ever do, for the matter. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
I happen to like, no make that LOVE devcrit. Saying it is cheese or whatever you want to say it is, will be said laying on your back, at the feet of this AWESOME warrior. Its a game of give and take; you cant have it all. But this build, IMHO, with both devcrit AND immunity to devcrit, will still be standing when the version with stil spell and blind fight (and IKD or whatever else you traded devcrit for) is in the respawn process.
It all depends on what you want to do. This build is meant for PVP, and it does that quite well. It is not meant for RP, thus no need for stil spell as the spell most needed here (war cry) can be cast in full, glorious, shining armor. Admittedly, you will need to remove armor/shield PRIOR to heading out to the battlefield, but as I already said, you cant have it all.
Nice build Ithacan. I hoist a mug in your Honour.
Edited By Markus Tarek on 12/11/06 17:51
Quote: Posted 12/11/06 17:49 (GMT) -- Markus Tarek
This build is meant for PVP, and it does that quite well. It is not meant for RP...
Sorry, no support for that claim. _________________ Heavy metal Or no metal at all Whimps and posers Leave the hall!
It has won a PvP tourney or two, took down Oddyssey of Darkness on the Badlands (Dev Crit, no less) in a FFA. It has some gaps but it is definitely designed for PvP. I don't know what more basis you'd look for, really. Come to the Badlands and we can work it out, I suppose.
Cheers, and Merry Christmas!
Ithacan (aka Code on the Badlands)
PS - And thanks, MT, for the unruly support. *drinks deeply from draught* *aaahhhhhh* _________________ We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender - Winston Churchill
).
: drop Dev Crit and its line of feats and free up slots for those nice features like LS, still spell, BF, etc. Both me and Grim basically never use Dev Crit (myself, I go for it sometimes although very rarely) and our builds manage to be efficient and fun to play none the less.