Playable 1-40 in PvM. Gains power, relatively speaking, in low-magic or "balanced item" worlds where arcane buffs won't be eclipsed by things like heavy DR and haste items.
As a challenge, and to maybe help combat my dislike of the character type, I've decided to try making an arcane spellsword that isn't crippled both as a caster and as a warrior. This is the first attempt that I consider reasonably successful.
Credit is due to Mithrades Magical Marauder and Stravinsky00's Arcane Blade of Torm who used the same classes and provided some information and ideas that were very useful (like EWS as a COT feat!), but they used different level combinations and, generally, different design strategy/philosophy.
# - Human was chosen for preference/RP reasons. Dwarf could be more powergamed: drop luck of heroes but gain 40 hp. * - Feat is optional % - Combat bonus feat from fighter/COT list + - Wizard nonepic bonus feat & - COT epic bonus feat
Skills - discipline, concentration, spellcraft, CC tumble. Good deal of leftover skills, enough to max out several other options. Due to class skill limitations I recommend Lore, Heal, Spot and possibly Parry.
Unbuffed Ending Vitals: 26 str 20 int
AC 15 naked, 26 in mundane plate and shield, 36 with imp expertise 388 max hp Fort 33 Reflex 28 Will 26; +8 vs spells
AB +39/+34/+29/+24 with mundane longsword, +14 damage from str & specialization 19 + spell level save DC with evocation spells (not great ) Can cast offensively against SR 32 targets by using Mord's Disjunction to lower SR by 10 despite not having penetration feats.
FAQ: Q: So you hate spellswords... why design the build for one? A: Because it's a challenge, and to diversify my personal build stable.
Q: You credit two builds at the start. How is this different? A: My build is very different in the details - levelling path, final level distribution, feat choices, etc. The builds I credit were helpful in giving me ideas of how to build a "fighter-mage" and providing me with a couple tricks that made this build somewhat better (such as being able to take Epic Weapon Specialization as a COT from Stravinsky00's build).
Q: But in the end, isn't the build substandard as a fighter and as a caster? A: In some respects yes, in some respects no.
+39 AB unbuffed is very workable for this build, as you have access to buff magic that will bump it up to the mid-40s without having to rely on true strike. True strike can be used to land a nearly guaranteed knockdown, for example, or to land hits while in improved expertise mode.
The build's base AC leaves something to be desired, which is why I took improved expertise and is part of why I took ICC. If you need to go into casting mode you can activate expertise and parry and then get your spells off while you're heavily protected.
As your mage levels develop, which is admittedly late in the build, premonition will be an excellent defense against many 'minion' style creatures, and epic warding is great protection against anything.
Your hitpoints are very low for an epic fighter, however, and unfortunately there's little way around that. Extended Endurance will be very helpful to you, and keeping extended defensive buffs ready is a must.
Q: But what about the offensive casting? You only have 22 caster levels and low save DCs! And you are a wizard with a relatively low intelligence. That's not going to give you many spells per day compared to a sorcerer! A: That's all very true. Against serious boss-style enemies you'll need to focus on using buffs, a few no-save attack spells, and your melee ability. With Disjunction you can lower 32 SR to 22 SR in an area around your target and reliably penetrate it, but saves will be a problem regardless.
The choice of wizard over sorcerer is actually something that benefits this build because you can learn every spell available, allowing you to change your configuration for taking down minions with area spells and summons, then change track to fight bosses using buffs and bigby's. A sorcerer would be stuck without the situationaly configurability that a spellsword type build needs more than a pure arcane caster does.
Illusion specialist is a very practical choice for powergaming and getting an extra spell per day without giving up any truly powerful spells other than mass haste. Mass haste is a great spell, and some of the other spells you're giving up are at least moderately useful (protection from spells, mind fog) and work well in a party, but that's balanced against an extra spell per day at each spell level in a build that's very starved for them. The benefits outweigh the costs.
Q: Did this build change your mind about spellswords at all? A: Yes and no. It's fun to play this sort of character and blast away with fire and lightning then hack down survivors with the sword. But while it's certainly a powerful enough character to face most enemies as long as you are able to prepare spells for them, its magical power develops late in the build and the levels between 25 or so and 33 (if not 36) will probably be a rough stretch.
So basically while it's fun to play, in the end it's not really more effective than a true melee, but is harder to level, has less hitpoints, has to rest much more often, and think ahead for spell preparation.
It does gain some points for utility and roleplayability, however, since wizard brings along the ability to learn spells like Knock, Find Traps, Continual Light, Legend Lore, etc, and to buff your allies.
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griphook ..Edited "Dex" Stat _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Edited By griphook on 10/26/05 23:06
"Vas Flam!" Mikall incanted, causing fire to flow down the length of his sword and fan out in a wide cone to his front, causing the previously confident trolls to flinch and duck away in fear. The one he had wounded with the blade just before was doomed, however, the fire pouring into its fresh wounds and stopping the beast's regeneration. It gurgled its deathcry, a grim warning to its comrades that this human was not the easy meal they'd hoped for.
The trolls hesitated. They were unused to seeing armored humans use fiery spells, and the prospect of being permanantly killed gave the usually fearless beasts pause. Mikall, however, didn't hesitate: pointing his blade and intoning another spell, he sent forth a swarm of firebolts that each sought out a trollish target and ignited it. As if to underscore their weakness, trolls were remarkably flammable and each one hit by a firebolt was turned into a two-legged pyre. The few beasts who escaped this barrage fled in terror from the hated fire, leaving their fellows to be consumed in the flames. Laying about with his sword, the wizard-warrior struck down any beast that came too near in its death throes, blade hastening the monsters' inevitable demises.
He smiled grimly at the flammability of the creatures, even as his stomach twisted from the smell of burning troll. The things were nearly immortal due to their amazing regenerative properties, which were so powerful that only fire and acid could truly finish off the foul creatures by cauterizing their wounds, but their bodies caught ablaze so easily it was truly ironic. Mikall despised the beasts, one of which had eaten his brother, and whenever he came across troll-sign on his travels he used his strong grasp of the arcane to prepare a battery of fiery magics and went out of his way to hunt them down and destroy them.
Wiping his sword on a rag following the engagement, he took a long drink from his canteen, and then followed after the fleeing survivors, implacable in his determination to finish the job. Mikall still had nightmares of the troll smiting down and eating Jarrod as he watched, helpless, too young to fight such a monster. His vow of revenge had seen him train amongst holy warriors and war-wizards, learning the skills to defeat the horrible beasts in combat and the spells to give their deaths the same finality as his brother's.
Now in their turn, it was trolls who had nightmares of him. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Liked the story quite a bit.
The build looks wonderful, too, but I'd like to know how many spell slots do you get without any Intelligence-boosting equipment? _________________ Now is my day's work done; I'll take good breath: Rest, sword; thou hast thy fill of blood and death.
Spells 4/7/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5. From Lvl 0-9... not bad... I'd be more worried about DC... I love using those evocation effect spells. Long live Bigbsy.
Nice build... I'd go F4/W26/CoT10... you'd get another feat out of it.
Spells 4/7/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5. From Lvl 0-9... not bad... I'd be more worried about DC... I love using those evocation effect spells. Long live Bigbsy.
The spell slots aren't bad, as noted - specialization makes up for a lot since it adds a bonus spell to every level, and you don't gain base spells per day over level 20 wizard anyway.
I felt that compromising more on strength or other melee powers to try and get great int would hurt the build more than having higher 1 or 2 higher DCs and a couple extra spells would help it.
Quote: Nice build... I'd go F4/W26/CoT10... you'd get another feat out of it.
No... you'd get a different feat out of it. You'd be trading a COT epic bonus feat and +2 to saves at COT 14 for a wizard epic bonus feat and 4 caster levels. Which is a reasonable trade if you are trying to build in more spell power, I think.
But Wizards stop getting the feat every 5th level at 20 - at 25, 30, 35 and 40 wizard there's no wizard magic bonus feat. So you wouldn't gain a feat.
In my opinion it's a lateral move at best... you'll get some extra damage out of many of my favorite spells, but sacrifice defenses. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
nice to hear that you give spellswords a chance, cuz they can really be fun to play. You are also quit right, it IS a CHALLENGE.
You did some interresting choices there to alterate one of my favorite Builds: The Magical Marauder. (to give "Mithdradates" one`s more credit)
i like that you improved his greatest disadvantages: low AC and saves by taking longsword/Shield and more CoT lvls.
But i personally also agree with theshadow0015 by going: F4/W26/CoT10 I did this myself and must say it worked great. Wizards and Sorceres get a bonus feat.. every 3 lvls over lvl 20. So you get one at lvl 23 and lvl 26. you spent one for autostill III to free a feat. for Epic Prowess (which is your lost CoT bonus Feat.) and get one for free
You trade 2 saves for one more Epic Spell like Hellball or Epic Mage Armor to help with bad AC. you also get better chances with SR. _________________ Adventure - is the result of poor planning
You shorted yourself on the start stats. You have 2 more points to distribute (so you can start with DEX 12). _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
I did? Dang I should fix that. 12 dex seems like the best place to put them - if a modedrator reads this, change the starting dex to 12 _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
I did? Dang I should fix that. 12 dex seems like the best place to put them - if a modedrator reads this, change the starting dex to 12
Yep, I've played a few full plate wearing spellswords (I actually find them a lot of fun). If Human, you can start with STR 16, DEX 12, CON 14, and INT 16. If Dwarf you can start with DEX 12 and all 3 of the other stats at 16.
Note the omnipotent Griphook has changed those stats for you. Leave offerings at the altar... _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
But Wizards stop getting the feat every 5th level at 20 - at 25, 30, 35 and 40 wizard there's no wizard magic bonus feat. So you wouldn't gain a feat.
I know next to nothing about casters, but are you sure about this? I thought Wizards received Epic bonus feats every three levels, which means you pick up 2 bonus feats in going to 26. _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Oh, I see what you mean.
Yes the wizard would get 2 epic bonus feats at 23 and 26... I thought he was talking about the free metamagic feat wizards get every 5th level. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Nah... I meant those Bonus feats... I treat them all the same (Bioware does... since you can pick up those Epic feats with the meta-magic feats)
And yeah, like LuckyLion (love that name, btw) said you can get Auto Still 3 and Epic Prowess, the feat you'd lose with it... plus the 4 caster levels (with a Maxed Out Horrid Wilting, yay) it seems more balanced. Yeah, you lose 2 saves but to have Spellcraft bonuses and if you aren't an Illusionist you can take Protection From Spells (+8 vs Spells)... not much of a probably... excpet saving vs. DevCrit... but you can just blast melee builds away with IGMS, H.W.'s but first drive a Ray of Enfeeblement through their chest.
OH... and I like your fic too... nice job.
The thing I don't like about dropping COT down now that I look at it is that the level progress to 20 is 4 fighter 6 wizard 10 COT... this gives us a 17 BAB at 20 for 4 attacks and more or less minimizes the impact of being a spellsword on our BAB.
Then in epic the 4 COT levels give you the chance to do skill dumps on the way up (though my level order isn't optimized for that, it's not hard to change either), and end with a class that has discipline as a class skill.
Going ftr 4/wiz 7/cot 9 to 20 will cost us a point of BAB while only taking wizard levels in epic will cost us a maxed discipline.
I guess it's a matter of taste in the end. I feel the character needs the BAB and discipline more than he needs more casting power since he's still not going to be as good as a pure caster or a pure melee.
You can split the difference, to an extent, and take 24 or 25 wizard levels. Or just accept the loss of BAB. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Cinnabar Din Note the omnipotent Griphook has changed those stats for you.
Thanks Cin, I forgot to say what i edited.
Quote: Leave offerings at the altar...
(Note) ...If i don't say what i,ve edited I've either made writing Bold or Italic or added "playable 1 - 40" etc. or just forgot (Very, Very Rare)
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