This is a build I've had kicking around for a while. I put it together after thinking about the 2nd Ed. FTR/Mage/Thief. Problem with that one was only Elves were allowed to choose that multiclass (IIRC). Anyhow, I built a Dwarf version. There are a few builds with this class mix, but not exactly the same split, and I like mine. It's built to avoid an XP penalty, so bear that in mind when looking at the levelling.

FTR 14/Rogue 13/WIZ 13

Playable 1 to 40, PvM.

Dwarf, any alignment

STR 16 (30)
DEX 12
CON 16
INT 16 (18)
WIS 8
CHA 6

1 )Rogue1: Thug
2 )FTR1: Weapon Focus
3 )FTR2: Improved Initiative/ Blind Fight
4 )FTR3: STR (17)
5 )FTR4: Weapon Specialization
6 )WIZ1: Knockdown
7 )Rogue2
8 )WIZ2: STR (18)
9 )WIZ3: Toughness
10)FTR5
11)FTR6: Improved Knockdown
12)Rogue3: Lightning Reflexes/ STR (19)
13)WIZ4
14)FTR7
15)FTR8: Still Spell/ Improved Critical
16)FTR9: STR (20)
17)Rogue4
18)FTR10: Extend or Empower Spell*/ Power Attack
19)FTR11
20)FTR12: Cleave/ STR (21)

21)WIZ5: Epic Weapon Focus/GRT INT I (17)
22)Rogue5
23)Rogue6
24)FTR13: Epic Weapon Specialization/ STR (22)
25)WIZ6
26)WIZ7
27)Rogue7: GRT STR I (23)
28)Rogue8: STR (24)
29)WIZ8
30)WIZ9: GRT STR II (25)
31)Rogue9
32)Rogue10: Superior Initiative/ STR (26)
33)WIZ10: Armor Skin/ GRT INT II (18)
34)WIZ11
35)Rogue11
36)WIZ12: GRT STR III (27)/ STR (28)
37)Rogue12
38)WIZ13
39)Rogue13: GRT STR IV (29)/ Improved Evasion
40)FTR14: Epic Prowess/ STR (30)

*Choose your poison, it's really a toss-up as to what's more useful.

AB: +41 with 7d6 sneak damage

AC: 21 (naked)

+15 initiative

Skill points: 318
Discipline: 43 (53)
Tumble: 40
UMD: 42
Spellcraft: 41 (45)
Disable Trap: 32
Set Trap: 42
Search: 38
Open Lock: 20
Lore: 20

Fort: 24 (35)
Refl: 23 (34)
Will: 19 (30)

HPs: maximum of 430

He's got a good AB, decent saves vs spells, a number of tricks with his Sneak Attack and spells, and he also has +15 on initiative to get his defenses up quickly or act first in battle. The skill set makes him quite versatile and his spells provide a good range of buffing and defense. He should be great in a party and pretty decent as a solo act. He can find, set, and disable all traps in the game as well.

His HPs aren't all that great, but still acceptable, considering the amount of low HP levels in the build. Can he be dispelled? You bet, but he's still pretty effective as a tank without any buffs at all.

*edit* I'd give serious consideration to going with Specialist:Illusion for the extra spell slots.
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Edited By griphook on 10/30/05 17:11

It's a great build, Cin. I appreciate your input on my builds but I have to tell you, within what you are trying to do here, I don't have a lot to offer to improve the build. You end up with 18 intelligence casting only level 7 spells, but the skill points (10 or so) probably warrant the move. Otherwise, you could go with another metamagic feat (extend is different than still and dead useful, particularly for a lower-level caster, and empower lets you use another level of spell slots for your really useful spells). That is the only constructive input I have.

Nice work.
Quote: Posted 10/27/05 20:16:34 (GMT) -- Ithacan

It's a great build, Cin. I appreciate your input on my builds but I have to tell you, within what you are trying to do here, I don't have a lot to offer to improve the build. You end up with 18 intelligence casting only level 7 spells, but the skill points (10 or so) probably warrant the move. Otherwise, you could go with another metamagic feat (extend is different than still and dead useful, particularly for a lower-level caster, and empower lets you use another level of spell slots for your really useful spells). That is the only constructive input I have.

Nice work.


Thanks. Yeah, I could easily drop that GRT INT feat and leave INT at 17. I'd actually only lose 7 skill points, and I could make up the difference in skills like Spellcraft and Disable by rading the Lore skill. I mainly took it for 2 reasons:

1) It gives an extra level 4 spell slot.

2) It evens the ability score out (something I'm prone to doing, having done it for so long now).

You could definitely drop it without hurting anything in the build and get yourself a little more metamagic flexibility.
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Quote: Posted 10/27/05 20:35:01 (GMT) -- Cinnabar Din

Thanks. Yeah, I could easily drop that GRT INT feat and leave INT at 17. I'd actually only lose 7 skill points, and I could make up the difference in skills like Spellcraft and Disable by rading the Lore skill. I mainly took it for 2 reasons:

1) It gives an extra level 4 spell slot.

2) It evens the ability score out (something I'm prone to doing, having done it for so long now).

Well, it is mechanically good building to have the abilities end on an even number, just like taking your rogue (rouge? ) levels on the 2's and 7's to end in five. I think I'd go with the metamagic feat unless your PW is just starved for Int-raising equipment.

Quote: You could definitely drop it without hurting anything in the build and get yourself a little more metamagic flexibility.

Yes, that. Still will help this build by allowing for some offensive casting in armor (your level 7 slots can be IGMS) and extend will help the build by extending the pre-fight buffs. Empower opens up the spell slots two levels above. All of which you know.

Again, i bow in your general direction.
Another option (I'm not sure if I like it) is to stop FTR at 12, and take Wiz to 15, taking the last Wizard at Level 40, that would open up lvl 8 spells, let you keep the Great Int (for 18 final) and let you have another bonus feat for metamagic.

You may have to play around with your leveling order to keep the other Rogue levels in check, you would also lose 1 AB from Epic Prowess FTR bonus feat.

It's a good solid build, FRW's are hard to build and balance, this is an excellent effort.

Mat.

p.s were you tempted to take Slippery Mind at all? I like the concept a lot, but it looks like you're mostly limited to buff magic with an 'armor off, buff on, armor on, start fight' routine. Not that that's a bad thing necessarily, and an unbuffed AC of 21 is better than many strength builds... but I would avoid in-combat casting with this guy, low AC and taking AOOs for offense spells with only 13 wizard levels and weak save DC isn't an attractive tradeoff.

If you can get armor with -arcane failure then go for it, especially at a distance.

Versatile adventure-skilled characters always get a nod of approval from me. Particularly in a low-magic world, or balanced-items medium magic world, the buffs will make this build as strong as, or even stronger than, many "purer" melees while having a lot more utility.

I too think the extra metamgic feat in place of great int would be a better choice, and I'll second the Illusion specialization idea. Specialization is a big help to wizards for spells/day.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. Thanks Xylo and Matt.

Matt: no, I hadn't considered SM, simply because the mage side provides numerous mind-protecting spells anyway.

Xylo: this guy takes Still Spell at level 15, so he doesn't have to do the striptease routine to buff. As far as offensive casting, he's not intended in any way to be an offensive caster. His spells are all about buffs and defense (Globes, Spell Mantles, PfA, Imp Invis, Mestil's, etc.) About the only thing I'd consider as far as offensive casting with this guy is some AoE types like Grease, Web, and Evard's, and Spell Breaches.

Of course, if he's in a party and not taking the role of tanker, he could certainly consider an offensive line of spells as well.
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Edited By Cinnabar Din on 10/27/05 22:27

Ah... I figured you'd be buffing up before the fight starts without armor on and just using Still Spell for mantles, maybe haste, maybe death armor, and similar extremely-short-duration/quickly worn out buffs, and damage spells.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
Quote: Posted 10/27/05 22:43:04 (GMT) -- Xylophone

Ah... I figured you'd be buffing up before the fight starts without armor on and just using Still Spell for mantles, maybe haste, maybe death armor, and similar extremely-short-duration/quickly worn out buffs, and damage spells.

Yes, that's the intent, actually. I completely misinterpreted. The hour-long and probably the turn-long buffs go up immediately after resting. This would, in fact, involve the striptease dance. My bad on that one - not enough sleep, rowdy kids, and whole lot o' confusion!
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream... No worry... I just figured if you wanted to metamagic the medium or longterm buffs you'd rather use extend than still, so that then Still would be used to do things like pull with an IGMS instead of a bow, or slap someone with a hand named Bigby.

In fact thinking on it, this character is practically the master of beating things via preparation. Armor off, scout sneakily about, lay traps, buff up, armor on. Pull with a damage spell to soften up the victim(s), put any the traps don't finish off to the sword.

Against really tough enemies, lay a Web or Grease spell down on your traps, then put an Acid Fog over it as soon as you reach the other side.

All I meant is that you'll really have to weigh the potential gain of using a given spell if you're in the midst of a crowd, vs their chances of smacking you with their AOOs.
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Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience. I see you're catching flak for lack of that metamagic feat, eh? Nice build, by the way (though I must express my discontent on not seeing some sort of anecdote to accompany this fine Dwarf). No matter. Dwarven Spellswords trump pointy-eared ones any day.

If I might make a teensy-tiny suggestion, it would be to drop Lightning Reflexes for Extend Spell. A paltry +2 Reflex save is hardly compensatory for an entire spell array with doubled duration.

Surely this earstwhile Spellsword of devout heroism deserves more, no?
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Ariel, Ookla, RIDE! Aye, that's a good suggestion. I like it. Simple, sacrifices little, and with Imp Evasion in the build, even if he fails the Reflex save, his damage is halved (less if he has elemental protections up).
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream... What? No background story! Bah, this build stinks!





Okay, okay. *grumble* Nice build Cinn.

Kaliban.
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What I'm reading now:
The White Spider by Heinrich Harrer. the lack of story is remarkable for you Cin. But the build is as well. A nicely balanced mix of classes. Of course, going dwarf here is what makes the build. Without the bonus to CON, being an unbuffed melee warrior is kinda hard.

Kewl, overall.

-c
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"You cannot pass!"

Edited By christian.schnabel on 10/28/05 04:23

"You cannot pass." Gandalf the Grey, Mithrandir, to the Balrog, in the Mines of Moria

"None shall pass." The Black Knight to King Arthur, the Holy Grail.

...yes...