First post, whee! Came up with this build the other day and have been playing around with it a bit, was hoping some of the more experienced builders here might be able to help me get more out of him though so let me know what ya think
playable 1 - 40 PvM
Monk/ShadowDancer/WeaponMaster 12/5/23 Human Any Lawful
stats Str 10 Dex 18(28)all stats here Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 8
1:Monk1 Dodge, Expertise 2:Monk2 3:Monk3 Mobility 4:Monk4 5:Monk5 6:Monk6 Spring Attack 7:Monk7 8:Monk8 9:Monk9 Weapon Focus (kama) 10:Monk10 11:Monk11 need 10 points in hide, 8 in Move Silently and at least 5 in Tumble here 12:SD1 Whirlwind Attack need 4 points in intimidate here 13:WM1 Weapon of Choice (kama) 14:WM2 15:WM3 Weapon Finesse 16:WM4 17:WM5 18:WM6 Ambidextery 19:WM7 20:WM8 21:SD2 Two Weapon Fighting 22:SD3 23:SD4 24:WM9 Improved Two Weapon Fighting 25:WM10 26:WM11 27:WM12 Improved Critical (kama) 28:WM13 Epic Weapon Focus (kama) 29:WM14 30:SD5 Epic Dodge (need to put 30 points into hide and tumble here) 31:WM15 32:WM16 Armor Skin 33:WM17 Toughness 34:WM18 35:WM19 Epic Prowess 36:WM20 Epic Toughness I 37:WM21 38:WM22 Epic Toughness II 39:WM23 Epic Toughness III 40:Monk12
Skills: 257 total skill points. Maxed out Concentration, Discipline, Hide, Move Silently and Tumble. 42 points left over.
Notes: I usually play on mid-high magic pw's. +5 is usually the best weapon you can get. Add in +12 dex and your atk jumps up to 51, which isn't stellar but not terrible either. Fort and will saves leave some room for improvement so possibly switching the epic toughness feats for epic will/fortitude would be more beneficial, though at least one of them, maybe two were taken as WM bonus feats. Could also switch out the epic toughness taken as a bonus feat for Blinding Speed if haste items aren't available. I admittedly have not played this char on a pw yet, just used a trainer to lvl him and imagine that until at least lvl 15 when you pick up weapon finesse it would be quite rough. The Weapon Master required feats could also be moved around a little bit, possibly take mobility instead of expertise for example and weapon focus earlier to make it a little less painful, and once you pick up HiPS at lvl 12 life should get a little easier as well. Doesn't look like he'd really come into his own until at least late teens, early 20's, but then the feats come quickly and by 30 he's picked up all the feats necessary by that point and should be able to survive 30-40 much better(assuming he can get some help from items on his saves). Let me know if I left anything out, tried to cover it all and all feedback good or bad is welcome.
Should make it a wee bit more playable and will end with 30 DEX for better AC and AB.
Top up Tumble on the SD and Monk levels in epic.
Just a note: you only need 1 rank in Tumble, Def Roll, Imp Evasion, and DEX 25+ to qualify for Epic Dodge.
I suggest Monk 13 and WM 22, since the 23rd WM level gets you nothing, but you can use the 13th Monk level to top Tumble. _________________ Wave upon wave of demented avengers marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream...
Azclown - welcome. It helps the readability by putting the class level next to each level as Cinnabar did.
Cinn - Why not take a full 4 levels of SD pre-epic to preserve AB?
Azclown - welcome. It helps the readability by putting the class level next to each level as Cinnabar did.
Cinn - Why not take a full 4 levels of SD pre-epic to preserve AB?
Kaliban
Because he's taking a WM level instead of the 4th SD level. The AB is a wash (SD 3 is +2 ab, SD 4 is +3 AB. WM 4 is +4 AB, WM 5 is +5 AB).
Either way he ends up with the same AB of +7 from those levels. _________________ Experience is the mother of good judgement; bad judgement is the father of experience.
@Kaliban: Sorry for the legibility, was in a hurry to get to class so kind of threw it up there
@Cinn: Thanks so much, definately improves the build and makes it much more playable. I'd probably take Spring attack before Expertise as I never use it but that's just me. Also upped all the saves by 1 which isn't huge but with as low as they are every little bit helps. Have been a bit apprehensive to build this one on my current pw as those first 15 levels were going to be super tough. Your was definately takes some of the edge off. Thanks again.
Would the build be better served by switching out the WM for ranger? The dual wielding feats would be taken care of leaving room for another +1 dex possibly, not to mention the need for some of the WM feats would not be there. 22 lvls would net you 6 FE's, enough for all player races but one if you like PvP and you could pick up Bane, allbeit very endgame. May switch this one out and see which one looks better, thanks again for the replies, greatly appreciated.
Spring attack totally negates attacks of opportunity while moving in combat, This means that if you decide to run away or try to say, run around enemies to generate your own AoO against them, you won't get any back. Though Tumble will eventually prevent them anyway, it's nice to get this early. I also means you can run awaaaay without fear of dying from an AoO. At low levels, Expertise will probably drain your AB too much to be of much use, unless you really need that AC to survive. Then again, you're a monk. Just leave _________________ .:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in (OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life... (|__|) ..".."..
as a side note if building this char for use from lvling from 1 up he works better starting out with fists, perhaps until you pick up weapon focus. Once you hit lvl 4 and your fists go do 1d8 fists seem the better option for the next few lvls
Cinn - Why not take a full 4 levels of SD pre-epic to preserve AB?
Kaliban
Because he's taking a WM level instead of the 4th SD level. The AB is a wash (SD 3 is +2 ab, SD 4 is +3 AB. WM 4 is +4 AB, WM 5 is +5 AB).
Either way he ends up with the same AB of +7 from those levels.
Xylo smart. Kaliban not so smart. One day maybe I'll learn how the game works
Kaliban _________________ I want my two dollars!
Since you only have 10 points in intelligence, you can't take expertise, which means no Weapon Master for you. Surprised everyone missed it.
Quote: Posted 12/17/08 05:39 (GMT) -- Robo850
Since you only have 10 points in intelligence, you can't take expertise, which means no Weapon Master for you. Surprised everyone missed it.
Please note this line
Quote: Skills: 257 total skill points. Maxed out Concentration, Discipline, Hide, Move Silently and Tumble. 42 points left over
First, this build is only 3 years old. Second, monks get 4 skills per level, wms LESSS (2 iirc). He has 6 skills to max! THis means that his INTELLIGENCE is 14 (+2).
Quote: Posted 11/07/05 20:13 (GMT) -- Azclown
First post, whee! Came up with this build the other day and have been playing around with it a bit, was hoping some of the more experienced builders here might be able to help me get more out of him though so let me know what ya think
stats Str 10 Dex 18(28)all stats here Con 12 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 8
See the stat WISDOM 14? Do you think wisdom is important in a monk/wm build? No. Neither did the OP.
Sometimes, when you transfer an idea from paper to post, typos occur, which is what this is. See, i cant speak for Cinn, Xylo, Kali, nor Jenna (who are all excellent builders - check their records if you dont believe me), but maybe they were just trying to help. Since the skills matched the intelligence needed, no one cared, at the time. Now, if there were only 4 maxed skills, then it would be different! (but Cinn ALWAYS seems to check skills..).
i know you are new here, but it can be considered bad form to post on builds that are this old (esp since patches have changed things over time). It would be like taking an old ED build and pointing out that you cant take ED at 24, cuz you need 30 tumble. Less than a year ago and before YOU COULD!
Welcome to the guild. If you are looking to do a monk/wm thing, post a build request. There are lots of people that know that style (i stick to clerics, and there are LOTS of clerics) In the last 3 years, there have been some crazy innovations. I am sure grizz could make you a SIKC monk/wm! (if you begged with a keg) _________________
I think avado answered your question like no other could...
Quote: Posted 12/17/08 06:28 (GMT) -- avado i know you are new here, but it can be considered bad form to post on builds that are this old (esp since patches have changed things over time).
Yeah, but isn't it worthwhile to get the typo fixed? As is, the build is broken. Sure, I can figure out what it was supposed to be, but that's not what it says. Old or not, these things should be accurate.
But it is accurate
Since Wis is down at 10, one could easily go Wis 8/Con 14 too. _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Since Wis is down at 10, one could easily go Wis 8/Con 14 too.
That means he'll lose 1 Will save. Which again will make it easier to fool him into drinking more. But maybe it's okay, since with better Fort save, his kidneys can handle it. _________________ We are sons of Odin, and the fire that we burn inside is the legacy of warrior-kings who reign above in the sky I will lead the charge, my sword into the wind Sons of Odin fights to die and live again
Quote: Posted 12/17/08 06:49 (GMT) -- onion eater
Quote: Posted 12/17/08 06:28 (GMT) -- avado i know you are new here, but it can be considered bad form to post on builds that are this old (esp since patches have changed things over time).
Yeah, but isn't it worthwhile to get the typo fixed? As is, the build is broken. Sure, I can figure out what it was supposed to be, but that's not what it says. Old or not, these things should be accurate.
I believe my post above fixes the broken build typo, does it not? Let me ask it another way, If someone new was looking at this build to seriously build, would they not read to the bottom of the topic? WOuld they not read the typo post? The build is old, we should let it lie.
I cant wait until we start to see the ED and Dragon builds being churned up with comments of "you cant do that"... Like i have said before, READ the build. IF it is OLD (1+ years) really look at it before you post. I guess today, since the guild is getting OLD, we have the time to post on them, but we dont want the mods to feel that they have to go through all 1900 builds to make sure they are 100%! We go through too many mods on this forum as is! _________________
I believe my post above fixes the broken build typo, does it not? Let me ask it another way, If someone new was looking at this build to seriously build, would they not read to the bottom of the topic? WOuld they not read the typo post? The build is old, we should let it lie.
But... you wouldn't have posted if the build wasn't bumped. There would be no typo post. Does it absolutely have to get edited? No, but it doesn't hurt.
While I agree that we don't need to bump every ED pr Dragon build that is now illegal, isn't this different? This is a build that would be illegal no matter what version of NWN you have. Yes, one can figure out where the error is, but there was an error, and these things need to be stamped out, no? As you may have noticed, a bumped build isn't nearly as distracting a thing as it used to be. I still think it's a good idea to fix obvious mistakes. Pre-1.69 builds, or anything which has been made illegal by a rule change, certainly don't need to be touched, but that aint the same thing.
Actually though, if I could snap my fingers and have my way, it would be great to have a note on every build 1.69 broke saying that it only works on version 1.68 or lower. Version number probably should have been a requirement to begin with. *shrug*
Quote: Posted 12/17/08 20:14 (GMT) -- onion eater
Version number probably should have been a requirement to begin with. *shrug*
In the far flung.. err... past we didn't really have as strict rules for format and such. If you notice a LOT of the old builds look a lot like.
1take a feat you like
*skips 20 levels*
21oh and at lvl 8 u shud hav had 4 intimidate loool 22-40 epic tuffness
And I'm pretty sure that nobody really anticipated the updates to change the game so drastically.. (or atleast.. I didn't ). We can't go through every post and modify them! That would take forever, and in a way it would destroy the nostalgia of looking upon the past.
But... you wouldn't have posted if the build wasn't bumped. There would be no typo post. Does it absolutely have to get edited? No, but it doesn't hurt.
Actually onion, and this is way too long, the build is 3 years plus old. The build IS legal. A typo is by no means a reason to call a build illegal, when, as clear as day, you can see that indeed, the builder used int 14 (based on skill points).
We commented on this build for one reason: someone using the search engine decided to look way back in time and noticed a typo. Seeing this, decided to point out something so insignificant and irrelevant that it was left for 3 years! Edited? sure, WE DID! Editing happens in more ways than a Mod going in and physically changing a post. Editing happens from US in followup posts.
Think of it this way: Monk/wm's are so powerful that this idea sat for 3 years without comment. Is there a reason? Of course there is. Monk/wm's while nice idea, arent terribly popular.
Since it bugs you so muhc, I nominate onion eater for the job of BUILD EDITOR AND CHIEF! We DEMAND that his ONLY duty is to go through EVERY build in the guild (there are only 1950 or so) and edit every single one to format AND accuracy for 1.69! to be cmpleted BEFORE Dec 25, 2008 at 6am, well, you dont want to know. How does that sound?
onion, you cant go around giving work to our Mods. We seem to wear out mods on this guild like no-one's business. One mod, who i hope is doing well, simply VANISHED from the workload. Didnt say goodbye or anything.
Now that we are so OT, can we please leave this bumped build to die in the dark places of 2005? _________________
I nominate onion eater for the job of BUILD EDITOR AND CHIEF! We DEMAND that his ONLY duty is to go through EVERY build in the guild (there are only 1950 or so) and edit every single one to format AND accuracy for 1.69! to be cmpleted BEFORE Dec 25, 2008 at 6am, well, you dont want to know. How does that sound?
Sounds like a plan! All in favor of condemning Onion to his own personal Hell, say "Aye." _________________ Got Hommlet? World of Greyhawk Action Server (with 1/2 price ales on Mondays!)
Ariel, Ookla, RIDE!
Quote: Posted 12/18/08 02:24 (GMT) -- grizzled_dwarflord All in favor of condemning Onion to his own personal Hell, say "Aye."
I'm a cook, man. I've got my own personal Hell day in and day out already...
All I'm saying is accuracy counts. I don't even care if things get edited. Some things, like the changes 1.69 made ( Boo! ) are obviously too numerous to mention. No, I don't need every build w/ WS: club to be bumped. Other things, like a typo that 'breaks' a build, should at least be noted. A post in the thread is totally sufficient, but I do think that much is warranted, no matter how old the build. I mean, if we weren't bumping it w/ our off topic arguing, it would have quickly sank back into obscurity, which we all know is where every monk build belongs...
Come on guys, the edit has been done and I'm always willing to edit out typos/mistakes if someone just points them out. We can move on from this discussion now _________________ They can't stop us Let them try For Heavy Metal We will die
Also upped all the saves by 1 which isn't huge but with as low as they are every little bit helps. Have been a bit apprehensive to build this one on my current pw as those first 15 levels were going to be super tough. Your was definately takes some of the edge off. Thanks again.
But maybe it's okay, since with better Fort save, his kidneys can handle it. 
But... you wouldn't have posted if the build wasn't bumped. There would be no typo post. Does it absolutely have to get edited? No, but it doesn't hurt.
). We can't go through every post and modify them! That would take forever, and in a way it would destroy the nostalgia of looking upon the past.
) are obviously too numerous to mention. No, I don't need every build w/ WS: club to be bumped. Other things, like a typo that 'breaks' a build, should at least be noted. A post in the thread is totally sufficient, but I do think that much is warranted, no matter how old the build. I mean, if we weren't bumping it w/ our off topic arguing, it would have quickly sank back into obscurity, which we all know is where every monk build belongs...
Come on guys, the edit has been done and I'm always willing to edit out typos/mistakes if someone just points them out. We can move on from this discussion now