Outcast from the place of his birth for his 'lower blood', and never accepted where he grew up for his outsider features, a Half-elf must learn to cope. But never did either the realm of humans nor elves think that such a bastard could attain the great power of arcane words blended with martial prowess. But attain he did, with power rivalling that of either parents. He is more than a match for whatever comes his way. He has nobody to love, but everything to prove. The time of the bastard is soon upon us. Then, all will be one. The one shall be Retribution...

The air shall be filled with words and arrows, as the might of the bastard rains down destruction and a cleansing fire of justice and terribly beauty. For it is written, in some of the ancient texts, that there will be a time of devastation upon the worlds of Elves and Humans. This time, neither might recover. The End, in a shower of death and purity, will come slowly to some, but to all it shall come. When all is done, the price will have been paid.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Something I have been screwing around with. Trying to find a good way to use Half-elf. Also wanted an archer with more than a few buffing spells or using scrolls. Not a melee fighter in the least. Behind the lines, buffed up, sending in arrows and spells without saves over to the enemy. A few good summons and tankish henchman are pretty much a must, unless you feel like having a lot of invisibility spells around.


Arcane Retribution
Half-elf
playable, 1-40, PvM
whatever alignment you wish


STR 10
DEX 16 to 30
CON 14
WIS 10
INT 16 to 19
CHA 8

all points into Dex


Full 9 levels of Wizard spells:
Offensive Favourites: Darkness, Melf's, Magic Missile, ILMS, IGMS, Bigby's, Grease, Vampiric Touch, etc. Anything without a save is best.


Skills: 237 skillpoints
Discipline 40
Concentration 43 (45)
Spellcraft 41 (45)
Hide 36 (46)
Move Silently 37 (47)
Tumble 20[40 cc] (30)


Weapon: Longbow
Armor: Robes


AC: 24 naked
HP: 336


Attack: 50/45/40/35
Damage: 1d8 + 15 (19-20/x3)


Saving Throws:
Fort: 25
Will: 19
Refl: 30


1 F1 Weap Foc:LB, Impr Intiative
2 W1
3 F2 Point Blank Shot,Rapid Shot
4 W2
5 F3
6 W3 Combat Casting
7 F4 Weap Spec: LB
8 W4
9 AA1 Impr Crit:LB
10 AA2
11 AA3
12 W5 Extend Spell
13 AA4
14 AA5
15 AA6 Spell Penetration
16 AA7
17 W6
18 AA8 Greater Spell Penetration
19 AA9
20 AA10

21 W7 Epic Weap Foc:LB
22 W8
23 W9
24 W10 Great Int I,II
25 A11
26 W11
27 F5 Epic Prowess
28 W12
29 W13
30 A12 Great Dex I
31 A13
32 A14
33 W14 Great Dex II
34 A15
35 W15 Great Int III
36 A16 Great Dex III
37 F6 Epic Weap Spec:LB
38 W16
39 A17 Great Dex IV
40 W17


Comments and suggestions welcome. Don't really think that there is much to play around with here. Maybe exchanging of some feats for some better ones, but the ones here are pretty basic. let me know if its alright.

-c
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"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." Heehee, funny of you to make one as well, but really concentrating on the archery side. Hardly anyone seems to have noted my rebuild of that illegal build which had so hastily been deleted - Divided Heritage - Fighter 12/ Wiz 13/ AA 15 and also included a Wiz-heavier version.

Thing is though, that you wouldn't *really* be able to offensively cast with such a character, even if you took the spell pen. feats. You don't have the higher INT of a near-pure caster, nor the full spellslots and the extra ones granted. You could, if you wanted, possibly drop them and take finesse if you feel like screwing around with a pointy elven stick too. Anyhow, I'd suggest you pick up Called Shot. You are an AA after all. Stick some arrows through legs/arms!

When I thought of this type of character, I thought more along the lines of a peacemaker trying to reconcile the facets of his/her confused bloodlines but ah well, I guess other people have different thoughts.

Long live the half-elf AAs!
_________________
.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
(OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life...
(|__|)
..".."..
Quote: Posted 11/08/05 06:59:10 (GMT) -- Jennalee

... Hardly anyone seems to have noted my rebuild of that illegal build which had so hastily been deleted - ... and also included a Wiz-heavier version.

Thing is though, that you wouldn't *really* be able to offensively cast with such a character, even if you took the spell pen. feats. You don't have the higher INT of a near-pure caster, nor the full spellslots and the extra ones granted. You could, if you wanted, possibly drop them and take finesse if you feel like screwing around with a pointy elven stick too. Anyhow, I'd suggest you pick up Called Shot. You are an AA after all. Stick some arrows through legs/arms!
...

Long live the half-elf AAs!

i did make note fo your build, and i thought of no posting this one, since yours was pretty strong, but i couldn't find an AA with more wiz levels. yours comes closest though. but yours is also a decent melee warrior. this one sits back and plugs away.

i disagree with the not being able to cast offensively. most spellsword chars are forced to use the wiz spells for buffing and only the saveless spells for attack. with the inclusion of the spell pen feats, this char is at least stronger as other spellswords. a mords disjunc and then spam the holy heck with missiles and hands. should do alright against most monsters. but your point is sadly too true. against a strong monk or something, problems will arise. buffing a summons is necessary, as well as using invis's to escape or at east relocate to higher ground.

called shot is what i missed, to be sure. helps a lot to reduce the dex and str of an enemy. a must for an archer.

thanks for the comments. helpful and insightful.

-c
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Et Earello Endorenna utulien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta. Meh, but you've only got two shots at Mords with 17 levels and 18 INT with no INT boosters. You're going to be resting more than a pure wizzie if you're going to use a lot of spells.
_________________
.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
(OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life...
(|__|)
..".."..
Quote: Posted 11/08/05 23:23:40 (GMT) -- Jennalee

Meh, but you've only got two shots at Mords with 17 levels and 18 INT with no INT boosters. You're going to be resting more than a pure wizzie if you're going to use a lot of spells.

should be enough. anyways, not really any worse than your average spellsword. and you make use of strategy to fire off those arrows. For me, I'd probably drop combat casting as well since you didn't get ICC) dropping Imp. Initiative for called shot, right?) and pick up Toughness to help with those measly HPs.

Also, I'd consider taking Wiz to 19 or 20 at the expense of AA levels to get more spells if that's your thing. Pushing it to 20, you could also get another Great INT or something (but you'll be giving up 2 AB and damage, not the one if you took it to 19). With 19 INT and as a specialist (supposing Illusion), Cantrips -> level 9:

Wiz 17: 5/6/6/6/6/5/5/4/3/2
Wiz 19: 5/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/4/4 <-- 2 more level 9 spells
Wiz 20: 5/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/5 <-- 3 more compared to Wiz 17

Taking another Great INT with WIZ 20 will give you one more level 1 and 5 slot.

I guess it may be something worth considering That's quite a lot more timestops/disjunctions per day but not of the lower level spells.
_________________
.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
(OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life...
(|__|)
..".."..
Quote: Posted 11/10/05 00:55:00 (GMT) -- Jennalee

For me, I'd probably drop combat casting as well since you didn't get ICC) dropping Imp. Initiative for called shot, right?) and pick up Toughness to help with those measly HPs.

Also, I'd consider taking Wiz to 19 or 20 at the expense of AA levels to get more spells if that's your thing. Pushing it to 20, you could also get another Great INT or something (but you'll be giving up 2 AB and damage, not the one if you took it to 19). With 19 INT and as a specialist (supposing Illusion), Cantrips -> level 9:

Wiz 17: 5/6/6/6/6/5/5/4/3/2
Wiz 19: 5/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/4/4 <-- 2 more level 9 spells
Wiz 20: 5/6/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/5 <-- 3 more compared to Wiz 17

Taking another Great INT with WIZ 20 will give you one more level 1 and 5 slot.

I guess it may be something worth considering That's quite a lot more timestops/disjunctions per day but not of the lower level spells.

i like this idea of upping the wiz levels. honestly never occured to me. i think i like the option of getting time stop as well as disjunction.

the increase of caster levels by 3 along with the increased int will grant a total of +4 to the DC, making the spell pen feats all the more worthwhile.

impr initiative is probbly the thing to drop. toughness isn't that important, but i guess couldn't hurt. i only took CC to reduce spell failure. probably not that critical, but just a sort of just in case kinda thing. if the spells fail due to a concentration check being failed, you will be sad you never took CC.

thanks for the ideas, jennalee. as always helpful and insightful.

-c
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"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." Combat Casting helps most in the earlier levels when the -4 to concentration really hurts but in the long run, I'd prefer the 40 HPs but I guess that's really up to you. I'd also considered Blind Fight but you have spells and I'm not sure if it works for ranged combat against concealed opponents.
_________________
.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
(OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life...
(|__|)
.."..".. Also the leveling order, I think you may have missed the AA bonus feats (they get bonus every 4th level post-epic - you seemed to have missed one - you can take Great DEX).

STR: 12 <- potential to get +7 more DMG from mighty bows rather than +6 and carry more
DEX: 16(30)
CON: 14
INT: 16(19)
WIS: 8 <- put the STR points back here if you like the +1 to will save
CHA: 8

Funnily enough, this character will level faster than others -> ECL doesn't quite catch up with levels til' 23!

01: Illusionist(1): Combat Casting, W: (Scribe Scroll)
02: Illusionist(2)
03: Illusionist(3): Extend Spell <- better ECL for going WIZ first and you can do the whole buff-combat-wiz flame-weapon-on-summons thing

04: Fighter(1): DEX+1, Weapon Focus: Longbow, (DEX=17)
05: Illusionist(4)
06: Illusionist(5): Point Blank Shot, Empower Spell* - optional but empower some evocation spells >:) - now you can run around rapid with extended cat's grace and stuff
07: Fighter(2): Rapid Shot
08: Fighter(3): DEX+1, (DEX=18)
09: Fighter(4): Called Shot, Weapon Specialization: Longbow
10: Arcane Archer(1)
11: Arcane Archer(2)
12: Arcane Archer(3): DEX+1, Improved Critical: Longbow, (DEX=19)
13: Arcane Archer(4)
14: Arcane Archer(5)
15: Illusionist(6): Spell Penetration <- spellcraft dump
16: Arcane Archer(6): DEX+1, (DEX=20)
17: Arcane Archer(7)
18: Arcane Archer(8): Greater Spell Penetration
19: Arcane Archer(9)
20: Arcane Archer(10): DEX+1, (DEX=21)

21: Illusionist(7): Epic Weapon Focus: Longbow
22: Arcane Archer(11)
23: Illusionist(8)
24: Illusionist(9): DEX+1, Great Intelligence I, (DEX=22), (INT=17)
25: Illusionist(10): Great Intelligence II, (INT=18)
26: Illusionist(11)
27: Fighter(5): Epic Weapon Specialization: Longbow <- I'd rather get it earlier
28: Illusionist(12): DEX+1, (DEX=23)
29: Illusionist(13)
30: Arcane Archer(12): Great Dexterity I, (DEX=24)
31: Arcane Archer(13)
32: Arcane Archer(14): DEX+1, Great Dexterity II <- the one you missed , (DEX=26)

I suggested lopping off 3 levels max because of this. You'll lose this feat if you want Epic Spells by pushing Wiz to 21 at least.

33: Arcane Archer(15): Great Dexterity III, (DEX=27)
34: Illusionist(14)
35: Illusionist(15): Great Intelligence III, (INT=19)
36: Illusionist(16): DEX+1, Great Dexterity IV, (DEX=29)
37: Arcane Archer(16)
38: Arcane Archer(17) <- dropping these and getting wiz to at least 19 means you can get to level 9 spells easier
39: Illusionist(17): Epic Prowess <- top up spellcraft
40: Fighter(6): DEX+1, Armor Skin*, (DEX=30) <- top up discipline

Max HP: 344
BAB: 27
AB (mundane longbow, rapid shot): +48/43/38/33/48
AC (naked): 26

Saves:
Fort: 25
Ref: 30
Will: 18 <- personally, I like to carry more

+9 vs. spells with 45 modified spellcraft

264 skillpoints
_________________
.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
(OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life...
(|__|)
..".."..
Quote: Posted 11/10/05 09:12:42 (GMT) -- Jennalee

Also the leveling order, I think you may have missed the AA bonus feats (they get bonus every 4th level post-epic - you seemed to have missed one - you can take Great DEX).

you are quite right. i would use that feat to grab another Great Dex, and than use one of the general level Great Dex feats for a great Int, thereby giving me another +1 to DC and another level 5 spell. Thanks.

Quote: 
STR: 12 <- potential to get +7 more DMG from mighty bows rather than +6 and carry more
DEX: 16(30)
CON: 14
INT: 16(19)
WIS: 8 <- put the STR points back here if you like the +1 to will save
CHA: 8

i prefer to give my archer a little boost to will save. remarkably low will saves for a wizard based class. the small carring extra, as well as damage is negligible. just use bull's strength or bags of holding. but that is just a personal preference. this is a good way also

however, if i did drop some AA in favour of wiz, than i would keep that strength, since the added spells can cover the will save and the bonus to damage is important since i will lose some from the AA levels lost. maybe even drop a few great dex's to grab a few great strengths for that reason alone. otherwise, whatever works...

also, thanks for the leveling change. seems much better now.

-c
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"Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." Ya'll are both good builders, so take my comments for what it's worth.

If you are only taking four levels of fighter pre-epic, that's all I'd take. Gives you two levels to do something else, like take AA to 19 (picking up a bonus feat to comp for the feat lost by not taking FTR 6 and an AB on your ranged attack) or Wiz to 19 (with the accompanying spells and DC).

Or take the six fighter levels pre-epic (F6, AA10, Wiz 4) and pick up that AB earlier and with melee as well as ranged weapons.

This may impact your ability to take EWS but meh on that anyway. Fighter 6 = 2 levels for Disc dump post-epic and a free feat. chris can drop it to one if he likes but that mean Discipline and EWS waits till 39, which I'd rather not have - it hurts playability. Hope that clears up why those levels are there.

Also, he can only take a max of another 2 levels Wiz pre-epic and still maintain 4 apr. since you can only take a max of 10 levels of a prestige class pre-epic. He could do that actually and keep Fighter levels at 4 and still get EWS but that's another BAB point and squeezing more feats 'til epic.

The melee weapons thing thought might be an idea - dropping Combat Casting for finesse would do the trick.
_________________
.:\_/:. Only those who have known darkness in
(OvO) their hearts will see the shadows in life...
(|__|)
..".."..

Edited By Jennalee on 11/11/05 22:25